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Southern_Railway (453 posts)
May-01-02, 06:25 PM (EDT) "Route-Riter? Have you tried it? Your thoughts?" Ed "Hawk" Hawkins recommended Route-Riter to me. I downloaded it from the Train-Sim file library. The introduction says "The purpose of this program is to get a route ready for distribution. However it may also be used on routes which you have already downloaded to compact them to reduce their size (it is particularly relevent if you have a route which uses a batch file to copy shape files from the default routes, as these batch files tend to copy everything, whether used or not!!)." Anyone else tried this program?Bill Burnett Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
Table of Contents

Subject Author Message Date ID RE: Route-Riter? Have you tried it... sniper297 May-01-02 1 RE: Route-Riter? Have you tried it... SharkNose May-01-02 2 RE: Route-Riter? Have you tried it... Hawk May-01-02 3 RE: Route-Riter? Have you tried it... atsfdude May-02-02 4 RE: Route-Riter? Have you tried it... CSXALine May-02-02 5 RE: Route-Riter? Have you tried it... Southern_Railway May-02-02 6 RE: Route-Riter? Have you tried it... sniper297 May-02-02 7 RE: Route-Riter? Have you tried it... Southern_Railway May-03-02 9 RE: Route-Riter? Have you tried it... CSXALine May-03-02 8 RE: Route-Riter? Have you tried it... sniper297 May-03-02 10 RE: Route-Riter? Have you tried it... Southern_Railway May-03-02 15 My question... rgarber May-03-02 11 RE: My question... Hawk May-03-02 12 RE: My question... SharkNose May-03-02 13 RE: My question... CSXALine May-03-02 18 RE: Route-Riter? Have you tried it... MikeSimpson May-03-02 14 RE: Route-Riter? Have you tried it... Southern_Railway May-03-02 16 RE: Route-Riter? Have you tried it... Hawk May-03-02 17 RE: Route-Riter? Have you tried it... MikeSimpson May-04-02 24 RE: Route-Riter? Have you tried it... CSXALine May-03-02 19 RE: Route-Riter? Have you tried it... sniper297 May-03-02 20 RE: Route-Riter? Have you tried it... sniper297 May-04-02 21 RE: Route-Riter? Have you tried it... fixin2 May-04-02 22 RE: Route-Riter? Have you tried it... steam4me May-04-02 23 RE: Route-Riter? Have you tried it... MikeSimpson May-04-02 26 RE: Route-Riter? Have you tried it... Southern_Railway May-04-02 28 RE: Route-Riter? Have you tried it... MikeSimpson May-04-02 31 RE: Route-Riter? Have you tried it... MikeSimpson May-04-02 25 RE: Route-Riter? Have you tried it... sniper297 May-04-02 27 RE: Route-Riter? Have you tried it... rgarber May-04-02 30 Objects that change size mivone May-04-02 29 RE: Objects that change size MikeSimpson May-04-02 32 RE: Objects that change size mivone May-04-02 33

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sniper297 (2136 posts)
May-01-02, 07:15 PM (EDT) 1. "RE: Route-Riter? Have you tried it? Your thoughts?" I try them all, Bill, and this looks the most promising yet. It's actually almost perfect as is, and Mike is working on one minor glitch that misses a few seasonal textures due to the screwy way KUJU set up the original routes. I had PO&N5 down from 300+ megabytes to a working route with only 125 megs in less than half an hour, and the only thing it missed was some of the seasonal textures and some of the global and template stuff.
Anybody wants to try it out, delete the \textures folder from PO&N5, paste this batch file;
http://www.train-sim.com/dcforum/User_files/3cd0767320a1332b.zip
into the \portogden5 folder, and run it. It's probably still not perfect, so have PO&Nver5.exe ready to reinstall if necessary, but it saves a lot of megabytes. Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
SharkNose (94 posts)
May-01-02, 07:21 PM (EDT) 2. "RE: Route-Riter? Have you tried it? Your thoughts?" Yes, and I find it a very valuable tool. I used it on my "test tiles" route, where I do all my experimenting, and it cleaned it up nicely. My REF file was pretty confusing and Route-Riter removed unused classes and reduced the clutter of the entire route.I haven't used it on a really big route, but I did use it to install my "test tiles" route on a clean copy of MSTS and it worked flawlessly. - Andrew PATCO Hi-Speed Line Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
Hawk (446 posts)
May-01-02, 08:32 PM (EDT) 3. "RE: Route-Riter? Have you tried it? Your thoughts?" I used it on a route that had a whole gaggle of stuff in it. 601mb.
Cut it down to 80mb.
Tried it again, after manually deleting the e.raw, n.raw, and .bck files and Route Ritter got it down to 60mb.
After loading it into the sim, I had no problems. I did not test the seasons, but that has been addressed.
Whooopie! A packeger for "Dummies". Jim, I don't think we'll need a book for this one.
Hawk"Traaaain-Train, Take me on out of this town." Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
atsfdude (111 posts)
May-02-02, 05:39 PM (EDT) 4. "RE: Route-Riter? Have you tried it? Your thoughts?" I tried it on the route I am currently building and it took from 230 mb to about 55mb. This will be a great product for those creating and ditributing routes. ThanksATSFDUDE Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
CSXALine (567 posts)
May-02-02, 08:56 PM (EDT) 5. "RE: Route-Riter? Have you tried it? Your thoughts?" I used it on my latest beta build - only 2 issues - some sounds were missed and 1 of the default buildings went way out of scale and covered the tracks - i dont know if this was the cause of it though - I love this - it is the answer to a long prayer of mine to be able to package my route easily
Jason Webb
The Seaboard Coast Line/CSX A Line from Tampa Florida to Jacksonville, FL
http://sclcsxaline.cjb.net/
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Southern_Railway (453 posts)
May-02-02, 11:21 PM (EDT) 6. "RE: Route-Riter? Have you tried it? Your thoughts?" Jason,How did you correct those two problems so that they wouldn't be present when your route is downloaded?Bill Burnett Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
sniper297 (2136 posts)
May-02-02, 11:49 PM (EDT) 7. "RE: Route-Riter? Have you tried it? Your thoughts?" Easiest fix is to note the error messages, then add lines at the bottom of the batch file to copy what's missing. I got an email from Mike today, he's currently working on some changes to fix that sort of thing, and hopefully the next version will be ready soon. He says the defaults are going to change so that it will be similar to EZstuff, where any file with the same name as another route will end up as a USA2 texture, but again that can be fixed. The current version defaults to Japanese track, I just add the line at the bottom;
"Call Xcopy ..\Europe1\Textures\Acleantrack*.* .\Textures\ /s /y"
and that overwrites the Japanese track with European. I'm currently trying it out on the newest route in the file library, Gracity-Hongste v2.0, and there were a few errors there too. I don't see this as a big problem, as Hawk said we won't need a book for this one, but it still requires some thinking and adjustment. The main point is that it makes it possible to weed out most of the unnecessary files without a hell of a lot of tedious work, and it shows tremendous potential for foolproof and failsafe installation as well. Unbelievably outstanding for an early release, with the screwy structure of the clumsily coded buggy MSTS files that RouteRiter is made to work with, you really gotta expect a few teething pains. Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
Southern_Railway (453 posts)
May-03-02, 12:31 PM (EDT) 9. "RE: Route-Riter? Have you tried it? Your thoughts?" Thanks again Jim. Very helpful.How many of you (Jim Wards) are there anyway? Or is there only one and you just don't sleep?Now my problem is, how do I get Route-Riter or EZStuff.bat to copy custom objects from Sea View 1 to Sea View 2 so that people who have Sea View 1 installed won't have to download the files for those objects all over again?Bill Burnett
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CSXALine (567 posts)
May-03-02, 00:05 AM (EDT) 8. "RE: Route-Riter? Have you tried it? Your thoughts?" I am still working on that issue - Jason Webb
The Seaboard Coast Line/CSX A Line from Tampa Florida to Jacksonville, FL
http://sclcsxaline.cjb.net/
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sniper297 (2136 posts)
May-03-02, 04:37 PM (EDT) 10. "RE: Route-Riter? Have you tried it? Your thoughts?" Insomnia can be very productive, Bill. Seriously, I haven't had a full time job since my dad had his stroke, so there are quite a few days when I have a lot of idle time on my hands. Women are always complaining about how hard housework is, but a lot of it is just waiting for the washer/dryer to finish another load, which is what gives them so much time to watch soap operas and Jerry Springer. Since I can't stand daytime TV, I kill a lot of those idle hours at my computer instead. My occupational status could best be described as a single mother with the wrong type of plumbing! I've also been playing with PCs since they first came out, so I don't have to spend a hell of a lot of time working some of this stuff out. You think the route editor is a beast, you shoulda seen the first DOOM level editors!
Custom objects with Seaview2 could get a little complicated, what to do essentially boils down to: it depends.
Best bet would be to upload two different versions, one with all the objects included so they don't need the first version to install it, since it's possible that the original will fade into the mists of time and new people who never heard of Seaview will be downloading seaview 2. That one would have a regular batch file and the usual custom folder.
Then upload a "patch" version, which would include the root files, \TD, \Tiles, and \World folder, and any additional custom objects added since Seaview1. The instructions could be to merely extract the "patch" to the Seaview folder, which would update it, or if for some reason you think the two are different enough that they might want both versions (assuming you followed the cloning procedure), add an additional line to the RouteRiter batch file;
Call Xcopy ..\Seaview\Custom\*.* .\ /s /y Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
Southern_Railway (453 posts)
May-03-02, 05:36 PM (EDT) 15. "RE: Route-Riter? Have you tried it? Your thoughts?" Thanks Jim. Exactly what I needed to know.Are you recommending Route-Riter over EZStuff? Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
rgarber (1599 posts)
May-03-02, 04:49 PM (EDT) 11. "My question..." I have a question concerning the riter thingy...Say you package your route up for packaging, right? And it cleans out all them extra objects, shapes, textures and generally raw sewage, right? Okay.. so you distribute your route... then... how do you continue working on it? You just zapped your selection committee when you wiped out the ref and objects that weren't being used! You may use 'em in a later version! *jumps up on table and points an accusing finger* Didn't think of that, did ya!!?? *eyes crowd and sees nothing but stuttering and stammering*Well... I reckon you can make a backup of the route just before you do the riter thing. Sounds like a great package, so where do I sign up? BTW... will this thing stop my water from running??Rich G. Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
Hawk (446 posts)
May-03-02, 04:56 PM (EDT) 12. "RE: My question..." LAST EDITED ON May-03-02 AT 04:57 PM (EDT)Uhh! Rich!
Backing up your route before you "Ritter" it would be the logical thing to do.
At least, that's what I did.
Just download it from the "File Library"
Have you thought of a plumber?
Hawk
"Traaaain-Train, Take me on out of this town." Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
SharkNose (94 posts)
May-03-02, 05:11 PM (EDT) 13. "RE: My question..." You're thinking of "Roto-Rooter" (sp?)! - Andrew PATCO Hi-Speed Line Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
CSXALine (567 posts)
May-03-02, 07:39 PM (EDT) 18. "RE: My question..." I back it up first - no problem for me - you have to make some compromisesJason Webb
The Seaboard Coast Line/CSX A Line from Tampa Florida to Jacksonville, FL
http://sclcsxaline.cjb.net/
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MikeSimpson (19 posts)
May-03-02, 05:32 PM (EDT) 14. "RE: Route-Riter? Have you tried it? Your thoughts?" Hi All,Many thanks for all the kind words regarding my program.I have nearly finished version 2 following a lot of help from Jim Ward and Michael Vone in particular. The new version should find all the missing textures, and will use the same version of terrain.ace which the route author is using. Another two textures which Kuju in their wisdom named the same, but were different in different routes are also caught, namely us2autofir1.ace and us2autofir2.ace. If anyone knows of other textures which vary between routes, I would like to know about them.I have now included the help file in the program, and changed the screen a bit, I am trying to reduce the number of buttons as well, although trying to get the same version to run under Windows 98 and Windows XP needs a bit of fiddling.I have fixed the problem with the program locking up on Windows 98 after either compressing or uncompressing .w files, and it now automatically removes .bk, *e.raw and *n.raw files for route builders.With regard to the query about how do you continue to work on the route, I just copied the route to my D: drive got it packaged up, burned it on a CD, then copied the original one back from D:Any more comments will be welcomed,Mike Simpson.
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Southern_Railway (453 posts)
May-03-02, 06:00 PM (EDT) 16. "RE: Route-Riter? Have you tried it? Your thoughts?" Mike,Your efforts are appreciated. I think most route builders have wished for a program to prepare a route for distribution. It would be extremely helpful for people who download routes to have all routes install the same way.What is the compatibility of Route-Riter with Route Control?When will version 2 of your program be available?Bill Burnett Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
Hawk (446 posts)
May-03-02, 06:22 PM (EDT) 17. "RE: Route-Riter? Have you tried it? Your thoughts?" Mike-
For computer illiterates like myself, this is a blessing.
Thanks for your efforts. I'm looking forward to the next version.
Hawk
"Traaaain-Train, Take me on out of this town." Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
MikeSimpson (19 posts)
May-04-02, 02:36 AM (EDT) 24. "RE: Route-Riter? Have you tried it? Your thoughts?" Hi Bill,Route-riter should be compatible with Route control, Route-control merely zips the file to save space, then unzips it when you need to run it. If you remove the rubbish with route-riter first, then add it to your route-control, it should be fine.Route-riter v2 should be finished this coming week.Thanks - Mike.
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CSXALine (567 posts)
May-03-02, 07:40 PM (EDT) 19. "RE: Route-Riter? Have you tried it? Your thoughts?" I am running Windows XP Pro BTW if that helpsany idea of the problem with the buildings changing size?Jason Webb
The Seaboard Coast Line/CSX A Line from Tampa Florida to Jacksonville, FL
http://sclcsxaline.cjb.net/
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sniper297 (2136 posts)
May-03-02, 10:02 PM (EDT) 20. "RE: Route-Riter? Have you tried it? Your thoughts?" Hey, Mike, thanks for checking in with us! Only your 14th post, and you're about to become world famous!
Hmm, lots of questions here, lessee if I can tackle them one at a time.
1. Do I reccommend "Simpsonizing" a route rather than EZstuffing it? Oh, yes, indeed. I never liked the EZstuff idea to begin with, and I actually had the first version on my computer for over a month before I finally uploaded it, because I was SURE that some programmer was gonna upload a better way before August 2001. That better way is finally here. One thing to bear in mind is that I never reccommended the UNMODIFIED EZstuff for an install.bat, it was designed from the beginning to be edited for each different route. The "installme.bat" generated by RouteRiter is gonna be the same way, some lines will need to be added on most routes to customize the finished look of the installed route, like adding the lines to overwrite the track textures. As Mike said, the biggest problem is the way KUJU used so many different textures that have the same filename, relying on the directory tree to keep them sorted out.2. Rich, I was looking at bodiddly just now, one reccommendation would be to edit the .trk file to directly reference the AWE-RD*.env files, that way you could eliminate the hacked .env files that have the same name as the default ones. Having the new ffedit.bat to play with, I'm gonna do the same for things like my custom JP2redgirder.ace and US2trestle.ace, making an actual new object with different filenames by cloning the shape file would avoid a whole lot of confusion. The only thing we can't do that with is custom track textures, since that's a \Global thing. Using this package:http://www.train-sim.com/dcforum/DCForumID6/4455.html#
And running the NAcustom.bat to sort by date the files that can't be renamed before running RouteRiter would fix that, and the last line from the Install.bat in the Stuffitpack2;
call xcopy .\custom\*.* .\*.* /s /y
could be copied and pasted into installme.bat. One snag I ran across is Chris Cyko's L2, it copies the L2 version of Acleantrack 1 & 2 ace into \Global\Textures, which previously didn't have them, so the line for copying all the textures from \Global has to be fixed. I'm still waiting on Signalmaster to give me the new signal dat files before posting stuffitpack3, and of course once I saw how close RouteRiter was to being the tool we've been waiting for, I've been concentrating primarily on that.How do you continue working on the route after packaging? Backing up is a no-brainer, most of us do that before deleting all the common files anyway. The only thing I saw that was irreversable is the replacement of the ref file, so copying the RouteName.ref file to RouteNameref.ful or something first, then including EZstuff4 in the packaging with instructions to "replace the ref file with the backup and then EZstuff the route" for those who would like to hack it in the editor is a good option, which will give them the larger selection of objects.Packaging with custom objects is still something that has a few different options, and RouteRiter misses deleting some of the default files due to the halfassed KUJU packaging of the original MSTS product. Take a look in \Textures\Night for example, from USA1 we get US2PowerPlant.psd, which I believe is some kind of Adobe sample file that don't belong in there, it's the only file in \textures on any route without a .ace extension. I still haven't gotten around to testing if that file could be eliminated yet, but as is, RouteRiter leaves it in there, which is 1,443kb of uncompressable wasted space added to the zip file if you don't manually delete it and add a line to the batch file to copy it. Assuming it's actually necessary, of course, possibly it could be dumped entirely.Route Control. I haven't tested it yet, but there's no reason I can think of why it wouldn't work, Route control merely takes all the files that are unique to the route and packs them into the route control route, which already has all of the common files from the six default routes. That should work whether it's installed fwith the installme.bat first and then packed, or drag-dropped into RC for installation. One thing to think about is the fact that this won't actually make Route Control completely obsolete, but it goes a long way toward making RC a much less desireable solution to the disk space problem.Jason, what you have there is the reason Jim Steven was against the idea of using batch files to begin with. The structure of EZstuff is deliberately designed to copy shapes and textures as a set from each route, so you don't get wierd effects from copying a large shape file from one route and a small texture file from another. Which building is it you're having the problem with? I'd like to research that, I've been looking to duplicate that problem for a while now. If for some reason it's impossible for Mike to get that sorted out, it's still repairable by manually editing the installme.bat file to copy the shape & texture files from the route you want instead of the one it defaults to. I suspect there aren't very many of those, so I don't see it as a big problem, again the packaging before uploading is the responsibility of the individual route developer, and should be tested completely in different seasons, and little bugs like that fixed before uploading.Anybody feeling adventurous, here's a Simpsonized batch for the new Gracity-Hongste v2.0 route, paste it into \Railway and run it.http://www.train-sim.com/dcforum/User_files/3cd341014b82cf72.zip
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sniper297 (2136 posts)
May-04-02, 00:00 AM (EDT) 21. "RE: Route-Riter? Have you tried it? Your thoughts?" Oopz. Test thoroughly, bonehead. I didn't, as usual, I just started at the only starting point on the route on a clear summer day, and then on a snowy winter night, to make sure the seasonal/night textures made it in, and didn't check the route out thoroughly.

Ran across that in the route editor after posting my last, apparently the guy made a custom transfer from terrain.ace for the route, and terrain.ace is normally not found in \textures, only \terrtex. So to fix that, after the \terrtex copy lines it's necessary to add something like:
"Call Xcopy .\terrtex\terrain.ace .\textures\ /s /y"
and that fixes it. That shouldn't be an overwhelming problem tho, if you made the route you should be aware of any unusual things like that you did, and be able to adjust accordingly. Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
fixin2 (37 posts)
May-04-02, 00:44 AM (EDT) 22. "RE: Route-Riter? Have you tried it? Your thoughts?" >Hey, Mike, thanks for checking in with us! Only your 14th
>post, and you're about to become world famous!
>hell, jim, he IS world famous already! one week msts, next week the world. and, no one ever heard of him, just quietly setting there, scratching his chin, or whatever, and writing some code. my kind of hero. Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
steam4me (82 posts)
May-04-02, 01:25 AM (EDT) 23. "RE: Route-Riter? Have you tried it? Your thoughts?" >>Hey, Mike, thanks for checking in with us! Only your 14th
>>post, and you're about to become world famous!
SNIP
>no
>one ever heard of him,
>just quietly setting there, scratching
>his chin, or whatever, and
>writing some code. my kind
>of hero.
Only in America.... sheesh....Mike Simpson is already widely known outside the USA. If you look on uktrainsim.com, he has about 20 different models and other items in their library, including a nifty loco shed with opening doors, UK railway crossings with booms, steam locos including a garratt; he has also done an Australian SRANSW 82 class diesel (on the site below in the sig).He contributes regularly on the uktrainsim fora offering help on routes and model building using 3D Canvas Pro.I'd say he's already very well known in the wider trainsim community and is held in high regard and respect.You guys really need to get out more (dons asbestos suit) RegardsYuri.

==================================
MSTS Australian Add-ons site
http://www.railpage.org.au/steam4me/trainsim
==================================

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MikeSimpson (19 posts)
May-04-02, 02:46 AM (EDT) 26. "RE: Route-Riter? Have you tried it? Your thoughts?" Hi Jim,Thanks for the comments, I have just about finished V2, and will email you an .exe today direct.Following changes made:-1. Help files within program
2. Lot fewer buttons
3. Now checks all routes for textures, not just the first one it finds the .ace file in. This way it finds the textures in all the /Night /Snow /Seasons directories OK.
4. The program does not add a set of pre-defined textures to the .bat file, these include terrain.ace, acleantrack*.ace, us2autofir*.ace and a couple of jp2auto files. Thus if the author has used his own versions of the track textures, they are maintained.
5. Some more bug fixes and changes as suggested by a bunch of users.Let me know what you think of the new version when you get it.Regards - Mike.
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Southern_Railway (453 posts)
May-04-02, 12:52 PM (EDT) 28. "RE: Route-Riter? Have you tried it? Your thoughts?" Mike,My route has a custom Envfiles\editor.env file and custom Envfiles\Textures\watertop.ace, watermid.ace, and waterbot.ace files. Will these be maintained by Route-Riter?Thanks!
Bill Burnett Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
MikeSimpson (19 posts)
May-04-02, 06:10 PM (EDT) 31. "RE: Route-Riter? Have you tried it? Your thoughts?" Hi Bill,Route-Riter v1 does not touch the Envfiles folder, just leaves it as it is.V2 will give the author the option to send his existing Envfiles or delete it and add a line to the .bat file which will just copy the end user's Envfiles from his Template folder.Mike
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MikeSimpson (19 posts)
May-04-02, 02:39 AM (EDT) 25. "RE: Route-Riter? Have you tried it? Your thoughts?" Hi Jason,No idea why the buildings should change size, to do this you would have to alter certain parameters within the uncompressed .s file.Only thing I can suggest is an .s file got corrupted somewhere, my program uses a copy of ffeditc_unicode.exe from within your own MSTS directory, so should have uncompressed it correctly.I have not heard of this happening on any one elses routes, can you repeat this problem, and if so on which route?Regards - Mike.
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sniper297 (2136 posts)
May-04-02, 12:32 PM (EDT) 27. "RE: Route-Riter? Have you tried it? Your thoughts?" Yeah, Jason, I've been hunting for that for quite a while, here's the original thread where Jim Steven warned about the problem;http://www.train-sim.com/cgi/dcforum/dcboard.cgi?az=show_thread&om=1051&forum=DCForumID6&archive=yesJust tell us which building, if we can duplicate the problem we should be able to hammer out a solution that will fix all similar objects.Okay, Yuri, you asked for it!

Hee-hee! WHOOOOSH! Hard to get a good screenshot with Deus Ex, but that one ain't bad.
Seriously, you gotta give us "Yankee Doodles" a break, I looked at the list of people who have posted on this thread, and most are somewhat famous (or in my case infamous!) on this forum, but I doubt like hell anybody in the UK, Europe, or that inverted continent on the bottom of the world ever heard of most of us. I like this website so much I hardly ever go anyplace else, and it's kind of difficult to log on to some of the UK sites sometimes. You need to blow your own horn a little more too, you're becoming the "Tutorial King", and the way you have edited and cleaned up some of my old tutorials so that they make more sense you really should add your name to the credits, "as edited by" or something.I just got the latest zip from Mike, and being a dummy I extracted it to a folder and tried to run it, got some kind of runtime error message. Anybody else as boneheaded as I am, paste the two files from the zip into the previously installed version so you got all the files, then it will work! Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
rgarber (1599 posts)
May-04-02, 03:05 PM (EDT) 30. "RE: Route-Riter? Have you tried it? Your thoughts?" Great game... love it.. been meaning to play it again.RG Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
mivone (197 posts)
May-04-02, 02:20 PM (EDT) 29. "Objects that change size" LAST EDITED ON May-04-02 AT 02:30 PM (EDT)I also have seen objects change size: if you have Albula Line, you can see an example near Albula Viaduct I (you will find it as you go uphill from Berguen station past Muot station just before the reversal tunnel which loops to the leaning viaduct above). What I have there are 10 copies of UKStonebridge.s, a 3-arch bridge: 5 of them are normal, while the other 5 are shortened by a factor of about 2. The shortening happened by accident, so I made more copies because they were perfect for the job!Here is a screenshot of that viaduct (look to the far right, where the arches are shorter than the others, although made with the same object): http://avsim.com/hangar/utils/mvchallenges/mstsalbula/MValbula-OE&lnggall&AlbI&7000&Fuegna&Muot(2-11).jpg (caution: add the last non-underlined characters to the URL, or select the 7th screenshot from http://avsim.com/hangar/utils/mvchallenges/mstsalbula/MSTS-Albula.html)I do remember that I was fooling around with the N and O commands to place those bridges, when suddenly the selected bridge shrank. But I was never able to reproduce this... I suspect there is a hidden tool there, not yet implemented! This has happened a couple of other times for me, but I threw away the misformed object.What is very interesting (I only noticed this today) is that those shortened bridges show up in the world tile file with an extra line like this:Matrix3x3 ( 0.924565 0.00666671 -0.380967 0.00391341 0.999628 0.0269904 0.182812 -0.0126888 0.443443 )which replaces the usual QDirection line (which has something to do with the orientation of the object).The last number in the matrix (0.443443) might be the shortening factor (although it changes somewhat from one copy of the bridge to another, perhaps because of different orientations). I guess that Matrix3x3( 1 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 1 ) would do nothing, because it is the unit=identity matrix( 1 0 0 )
( 0 1 0 )
( 0 0 1 )that by definition leaves an object unchanged.It may well be that replacing the last 1 in that matrix by 0.5 would shorten the object by a factor 2. And similarly replacing the other 1's would shrink/stretch the object in the 2 other dimensions. This suggests that Matrix3x3 resizes (and probably reorients) an object. A 3x3 matrix can indeed be used to change the dimensions and orientation of an object in 3-dimensional space (in general the object can become skewed, so be careful!).Even if we crack what Matrix3x3 does, it may not be very useful until we find out how to control it from within RE. Otherwise, we need to go into the world tile file, add the Matrix3x3 line with suitable parameters, and then go back into RE to place the object: possible but cumbersome.Michael Vone
- Step by Step Guide to Route Building for Microsoft Train Simulator (http://TrainSimulatorWorld.com/)
- Albula Line
- Rocky Island Route
- Cliff Hanger Route
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MikeSimpson (19 posts)
May-04-02, 06:12 PM (EDT) 32. "RE: Objects that change size" Hi Michael,If you go to www.uktrainsim.com, under utilities, there is a Java utility by Paul Gausden which will allow you to firstly uncompress an .s file, then to change the x, y and z sizes of that object by a percentage, thus you can make an engine shed slightly wider, taller or longer.Regards - Mike.
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mivone (197 posts)
May-04-02, 07:01 PM (EDT) 33. "RE: Objects that change size" I have spent several hours trying to understand Matrix3x3 and QDirection, without much success!My attempts to crack Matrix3x3 have largely failed, because RE normally tries to restore the QDirection command. What I mean is that when you replace in a world tile file an object's QDirection information by Matrix3x3 information, and then open your route and save it again, RE restores QDirection information. The result is that any resizing that you insert through Matrix3x3 is normally lost (while the direction is kept). Apparently there are very unusual situations in which the Matrix3x3 is nevertheless kept by RE, but I have not been able to discover what those situations are.In the process I have discovered that QDirection contains cosines and sines of half-rotation angles. For example, of you rotate an object about the vertical by angle A (positive from north toward west and south, negative from north toward east and south), then QDirection encodes that as QDirection ( 0 sin(A/2) 0 cos(A/2) )If you also tilt the object, then these four numbers change in a complicated way that also depends on the half-angles of tilt toward the south and toward the east.Doesn't look promising!Mike: I am sure we can resize objects through their shape files. However, that new size then applies to the entire route. What I was hoping is that we can tailor the size of each individual copy of an object, but I can't figure out how.Michael Vone
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