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"Saluda??? Anyone building the Norfolk Southern line between Spartansburg SC and Asheville NC?"

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StephenSF (91 posts)
Apr-29-02, 07:25 PM (EDT) "Saluda??? Anyone building the Norfolk Southern line between Spartansburg SC and Asheville NC?" I was just wondering if anyone was building this monster grade or are including it in one of thier routes??? here's a link for some information and pictures on it. http://www.harbornet.com/folks/dougsdepot/southernrailway.html Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
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Subject Author Message Date ID RE: Saluda??? Anyone building the N... flarrfan Apr-29-02 1 RE: Saluda??? Anyone building the N... roycru Apr-30-02 2 RE: Saluda??? Anyone building the N... flarrfan Apr-30-02 6 RE: Saluda??? Anyone building the N... roycru May-01-02 8 RE: Saluda??? Anyone building the N... flarrfan May-01-02 9 RE: Saluda??? Anyone building the N... henry3 May-02-02 10 RE: Saluda??? Anyone building the N... romerails May-02-02 11 RE: Saluda??? Anyone building the N... roycru Apr-30-02 3 RE: Saluda??? Anyone building the N... yellowdog Apr-30-02 4 RE: Saluda??? Anyone building the N... ssw Apr-30-02 5 RE: Saluda??? Anyone building the N... roycru May-01-02 7 RE: Saluda??? Anyone building the N... romerails May-02-02 12 RE: Saluda??? Anyone building the N... Mark_Blum May-02-02 13 RE: Saluda??? Anyone building the N... Southern_Railway May-02-02 14 RE: Saluda??? Anyone building the N... bcdef May-03-02 15 RE: Saluda??? Anyone building the N... Mark_Blum May-03-02 16 RE: Saluda??? Anyone building the N... atsfdude May-03-02 17 RE: Saluda??? Anyone building the N... romerails May-06-02 20 RE: Saluda??? Anyone building the N... romerails May-06-02 19 RE: Saluda??? Anyone building the N... romerails May-06-02 18 RE: Saluda??? Anyone building the N... Mark_Blum May-06-02 21 RE: Saluda??? Anyone building the N... romerails May-07-02 22 RE: Saluda??? Anyone building the N... Mark_Blum May-07-02 23 RE: Saluda??? Anyone building the N... romerails May-08-02 24

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flarrfan (584 posts)
Apr-29-02, 10:18 PM (EDT) 1. "RE: Saluda??? Anyone building the Norfolk Southern line between Spartansburg SC and Asheville NC?" Somebody was working on this route last year and got frustrated with a bug in the sim that affects all prototypes in western NC...there is a north south boundary that is apparently built into the RGE and makes the scenery disappear, but only when trains run in one particular direction. Jerry Sullivan had the same problem with the Clinchfield recently. I moved my entire Florida Funnel route one degree south to avoid a different boundary, but that was easy for me since no DEMS needed. Two guys working on Cajon hit the same kind of boundary just west of Barstow, also. Jerry or you Cajon folks, did you find any workarounds yet? Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
roycru (155 posts)
Apr-30-02, 08:59 AM (EDT) 2. "RE: Saluda??? Anyone building the Norfolk Southern line between Spartansburg SC and Asheville NC?" AS I recall the "bug" has to do with DEM data at multiples of 12 degrees longitude. Converting a round globe to a flat map gives errors every so often. Borders of maps may not match up at zone boundries. DEMEX has a process that takes care of this mismatch. Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
flarrfan (584 posts)
Apr-30-02, 06:29 PM (EDT) 6. "RE: Saluda??? Anyone building the Norfolk Southern line between Spartansburg SC and Asheville NC?" LAST EDITED ON Apr-30-02 AT 06:32 PM (EDT)Actually it has nothing to do with DEM data. It happened on my route with no DEM. And John CS, who wrote Demex, has confirmed it is a bug with no fix.
http://www.train-sim.com/dcforum/DCForumID6/3881.html Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
roycru (155 posts)
May-01-02, 09:28 AM (EDT) 8. "RE: Saluda??? Anyone building the Norfolk Southern line between Spartansburg SC and Asheville NC?" I stand corrected. From reading the refrenced post it is a TD boundry that appears as heavy dark line in RGE. Suggested "correction" was to shift the route. Ouch! I depend on lat/long for placing everything! Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
flarrfan (584 posts)
May-01-02, 06:48 PM (EDT) 9. "RE: Saluda??? Anyone building the Norfolk Southern line between Spartansburg SC and Asheville NC?" LAST EDITED ON May-01-02 AT 06:49 PM (EDT)As do I, but I was lucky enough to have picked about as flat a route (the Jacksonville FL-Waycross GA Florida Funnel) as possible, so it was easy to shift everything one degree south to avoid the problem, without DEM worries. I just subtract one degree from all my latitude readings and still get accurate placement. Only thing is, if you look in the RGE at my quad tree, Jacksonville is in the Ocala National Forest and Waycross shows up about halfway between Jacksonville and Lake City FL. It works in both directions, though. Edited to add that the hardest part of the shift was having to translate my lat/lon readings to each potential tile to be toggled, since I had no red line to guide my populating. Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
henry3 (765 posts)
May-02-02, 10:42 AM (EDT) 10. "RE: Saluda??? Anyone building the Norfolk Southern line between Spartansburg SC and Asheville NC?" I wonder if the oddity I'm seeing has any relationship to this issue?I have merrily generated tiles, applied DEMs, and laid track from east to west crossing -108 degrees longitude. I really had no problem doing any of the above. When I go into MSTS to run, everything looks okay scenery-wise.However, on a test run through the neighborhood of -108 degrees, all heck breaks loose! The first time it happened I was motoring along at about 60 mph. One minute I was in the cab, the next I was hovering over open land with the sounds of the train crashing in the background. No matter where I rotated the camera, I could see no trace of the train (or tracks!) even though the track monitor showed weird stuff and the crashing sounds continued. Finally the "car derailed" message showed up.Last night I had the chance to cruise slowly through the area. All went well at first. On a hunch, I shifted to the #2 view and watched. Once I hit the critical area, the locos and cars on the trains started popping in an out of existence! Oddly enough, some of the cars disappeared and stayed gone! And it looked like some of the cars were passing through other cars as the disappeared and re-appeared. It was like watching some sort of dimensional rift or something. Eventually something must have hit a snag because a derailment ensued.Has anyone seen anything like this before?Henry Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
romerails (58 posts)
May-02-02, 03:27 PM (EDT) 11. "RE: Saluda??? Anyone building the Norfolk Southern line between Spartansburg SC and Asheville NC?" LAST EDITED ON May-02-02 AT 03:51 PM (EDT)Hey, That was me!I have the route still on my hard drive. If anyone wants it, send a blank CD-rom to me and I will burn it on there. The track over Saluda is finished and works. The bug prevents SB travel from north of Hendersonville to anywhere south (if you like to have any scenery that is). But NB it works fine. I doubt if I will finish this project, so if anyone wants to pick up where I left off, just send me that CD-Rom and you are welcomed to it. Alan (romerails)Send CD-Rom to Alan Garrett
PO Box 2398
Rome, Ga 30164PS. Just in case I get overwhelmed with requests, I suppose I should ask for return postage, should be 57 cents in the USA (One first class stamp and one .23 stamp). I will use the same envelope if possible to return it to you. Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
roycru (155 posts)
Apr-30-02, 09:04 AM (EDT) 3. "RE: Saluda??? Anyone building the Norfolk Southern line between Spartansburg SC and Asheville NC?" The route I'm building is north of there (ET&WNC) but I can testify that the grade is steep. On the Interstate expect to encounter trucks moving 20-25 mph.
Route should be a great test of operational skills. Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
yellowdog (184 posts)
Apr-30-02, 12:58 PM (EDT) 4. "RE: Saluda??? Anyone building the Norfolk Southern line between Spartansburg SC and Asheville NC?" Hey, roycru, you're building the ET&WNC? That's cool. I live not far from there on the "ET" side. I actually thought about laying track for that route as a good way of getting my feet wet in the RE, but have decided to stick to skinning instead (seems like any venture in RE puts me in over my head ) Are you planning a particular time period for it? Clayton Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
ssw (169 posts)
Apr-30-02, 04:12 PM (EDT) 5. "RE: Saluda??? Anyone building the Norfolk Southern line between Spartansburg SC and Asheville NC?" Want steep grades? run default Marias........What was figured 6%? Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
roycru (155 posts)
May-01-02, 09:18 AM (EDT) 7. "RE: Saluda??? Anyone building the Norfolk Southern line between Spartansburg SC and Asheville NC?" Well I put a wye in just north of tunnel 2 in Hampton. Currently the bottom of the wye has been removed so that element dates from the Hillybilly days. I'm only doing the Doe River Gourge at this time which consist of only eight tiles. That would be the dream for the current gourge route. Ive extended markers to the edge of the tiles which on the north is north of tunnel 1 and on the south about a mile south of Blevins. That would place it before the NG track was removed fifty years ago.For more on current going ons at DRG see groups.yahoo.com tweetsie. Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
romerails (58 posts)
May-02-02, 03:41 PM (EDT) 12. "RE: Saluda??? Anyone building the Norfolk Southern line between Spartansburg SC and Asheville NC?" LAST EDITED ON May-02-02 AT 03:45 PM (EDT)Thought I would post this to the main message also. I have Saluda grade completed (track) and partially scenicked (sp) if anyone wants to try it out. The bug prevented me from finishing, although NB it doesn't effect the route at all. Perhaps if someone else doesn't pick up the baton and finish this route, I will, but I doubt it at this point. I can't afford the bandwidth to post the route for download and I don't want to post such an uncompleted route to this site, so if you want it you will have to send a blank CD-Rom to me by snail mail (perhaps with a buck to cover the cost of shipping, burning and the envelope - but not neccessary). I will clean up the route best I can this weekend and add a couple of coal train activities NB and SB. Perhaps I will just end the route in Hendersonville to avoid the bug in the future so that it can be completed. I will wait to hear opinions from anyone who gets the route to see if it would be worth the effort. Send blank CD-Rom to:Alan Garrett
PO Box 2398
Rome, GA 30164PS. I have completed the NS line from Chattanooga to Atlanta (to the intermodal facility in Austell near Atlanta actually). I will need some beta testers in a month or so for that. If you want a copy of that route, send an extra CD with your name and info and I will send it later on. Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
Mark_Blum (115 posts)
May-02-02, 11:23 PM (EDT) 13. "RE: Saluda??? Anyone building the Norfolk Southern line between Spartansburg SC and Asheville NC?" Hi Alan:I'm working on Southern from Greenville, SC to Atlanta. Piedmont division stops at Peachtree Creek, not too far inside I-285. For now, I'm working north from the Gainesville area, and I'm just about to the South Carolina line. Not sure where I'll run out of steam (no pun intended) - won't go past Greenville, SC. When I finish north, I'll head South from Gainesville into Atlanta - perhaps we can find someone crazy enough to do Innman Yard, and meet there!Best of luck with your route.Mark
A Southern Railway Fan Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
Southern_Railway (456 posts)
May-02-02, 11:47 PM (EDT) 14. "RE: Saluda??? Anyone building the Norfolk Southern line between Spartansburg SC and Asheville NC?" Mark and Alan (and Ed, Rob, John) we need to have another Atlanta MSTS group get together soon. A lot of route building going on between all of us.Bill Burnett Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
bcdef (122 posts)
May-03-02, 08:22 AM (EDT) 15. "RE: Saluda??? Anyone building the Norfolk Southern line between Spartansburg SC and Asheville NC?" hey why dont some do the Nebraska main line of UP?
from Omaha to Northe Platte?
sweet route all flat!
double tracked
lots of small towns along tyhe way and lots of corn fields!
long HAIL OLD UP
Hail OLD UP
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Mark_Blum (115 posts)
May-03-02, 09:09 AM (EDT) 16. "RE: Saluda??? Anyone building the Norfolk Southern line between Spartansburg SC and Asheville NC?" Hi Bill:I would love to get with the Atlanta group - problem is, I live in Clearwater, FL now and its one heck of a drive - or airfare vs graphics card ! My son lives in Alpharetta and when I can arrange a visit, digital camera goes with me.I will make one of your meetings and railfan trips if I can, that's for sure! Thanks for the invite.Mark
A Southern Railway Fan Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
atsfdude (120 posts)
May-03-02, 12:21 PM (EDT) 17. "RE: Saluda??? Anyone building the Norfolk Southern line between Spartansburg SC and Asheville NC?" Bill, Just set a time and place and lets see what we can do. With Alan in Rome, perhaps we can make the trip to Chattanooga for the Tennessee Valley RR. Or meet somewhere and just have a nice lunch / dinner and discuss business.John Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
romerails (58 posts)
May-06-02, 05:26 PM (EDT) 20. "RE: Saluda??? Anyone building the Norfolk Southern line between Spartansburg SC and Asheville NC?" Hey, sounds like fun. Count me in. Rome has a lot of train watching to offer too if anyone wanted to come up for a day of chasing some time. Alan Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
romerails (58 posts)
May-06-02, 05:23 PM (EDT) 19. "RE: Saluda??? Anyone building the Norfolk Southern line between Spartansburg SC and Asheville NC?" Bill, Please let me know when you guys are meeting next. I would be interested in attending. I could use some research help/info for the Ga Division route I am working on and I am sure that some of you guys are probably better informed than I am. Alan Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
romerails (58 posts)
May-06-02, 05:21 PM (EDT) 18. "RE: Saluda??? Anyone building the Norfolk Southern line between Spartansburg SC and Asheville NC?" Mark, Would a track chart help you? I have the track chart for the entire Piemont division from 1993. It has every bridge, road crossing, signal, siding, switch, curve with degrees and grade. I found it quite usefull in doing the Saluda grade. I could copy the pages you need if you would like. Send me your snail mail address via the 'inbox' of this message board if you want them. Alan Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
Mark_Blum (115 posts)
May-06-02, 09:31 PM (EDT) 21. "RE: Saluda??? Anyone building the Norfolk Southern line between Spartansburg SC and Asheville NC?" Thanks for the generous offer, Alan - I have a track chart from NS - 1989 version. Sadly, the '93 chart will show a smaller railroad than 1989. When I was in Toccoa last month, expecting to take digital photos of the line to Elberton (and the yard just south of town on the main line) all I found was a crane and heavy equipment pulling up the rail, and placing it into some beat-up CN gondola. Very sad.Glad to know there are lots of Georgia railfans out there - some of them Southern/NS. The UP, BNSF and CSX, Conrail, Pennsy etc are great, but..... I road the Crescent. Back in school from Ga Tech home to Baltimore (finished the trip behind a GG1 from Washington to Baltimore) - that's where my nostalgia lies!Mark
A Southern Railway Fan Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
romerails (58 posts)
May-07-02, 02:58 PM (EDT) 22. "RE: Saluda??? Anyone building the Norfolk Southern line between Spartansburg SC and Asheville NC?" I am having the same experience. Almost half of the sidings I have made 'live' visits to on that are on the 1993 track chart are either gone or have been greatly reduced or abandoned. BTW, any idea on where I might get a copy of a Georgia division track chart? I could really use one for help on my current project. Alan Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
Mark_Blum (115 posts)
May-07-02, 06:31 PM (EDT) 23. "RE: Saluda??? Anyone building the Norfolk Southern line between Spartansburg SC and Asheville NC?" Found a track chart for GA Division at http://trainsite.8m.com/It's a year 2000 - if you're not familiar with the website, just click the "N" under track charts for Norfolk Southern and keep lookin' - it's showing "1" in stock Mark
A Southern Railway Fan Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
romerails (58 posts)
May-08-02, 03:28 PM (EDT) 24. "RE: Saluda??? Anyone building the Norfolk Southern line between Spartansburg SC and Asheville NC?" Holy &*&$ ! Thanks. I've been looking for one forever. Headed there now. Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

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