Message Areas - "Modeling well known business establishments"

Train-Sim.Com Message Areas

"Modeling well known business establishments"

Email this topic to a friend
Printer-friendly version of this topic
Bookmark this topic (Registered users only)
Previous Topic | Next Topic Conferences MSTS Route Design (Protected) Original message
calr (289 posts)
Apr-18-02, 06:08 PM (EDT) "Modeling well known business establishments" I assume that if you are going to model something like McDonalds (with the arches) or other well known businesses, you need to get permission before distributing the model. One of the recently released routes, either PO&N5 or SeaView has what sure looks like a Pizza Hut. There is no name on it so one can't say for sure. However there is only one business that has those big golden arches. Any comments?
Cal Rasmussen
Beaverton, ORColumbia Gorge Route (5% done,Celilo Bridge in Progress) Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
Table of Contents

Subject Author Message Date ID RE: Modeling well known business es... patm41 Apr-18-02 1 RE: Modeling well known business es... CSXALine Apr-18-02 2 RE: Modeling well known business es... Hobart Apr-18-02 3 RE: Modeling well known business es... CSXALine Apr-18-02 4 RE: Modeling well known business es... atsfdude Apr-22-02 8 RE: Modeling well known business es... Southern_Railway Apr-18-02 5 RE: Modeling well known business es... calr Apr-19-02 6 RE: Modeling well known business es... stationmaster Apr-19-02 7 RE: Modeling well known business es... rpicardi1 Apr-22-02 9 RE: Modeling well known business es... gxm149 Apr-23-02 10 RE: Modeling well known business es... avallillo Apr-25-02 12 RE: Modeling well known business es... stationmaster Apr-23-02 11

Lobby | Topics | Previous Topic | Next Topic
Messages in this topic
patm41 (837 posts)
Apr-18-02, 06:39 PM (EDT) 1. "RE: Modeling well known business establishments"
the pizza hut looking building is a MS/Kujo default building If i recall...patm41
Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
CSXALine (549 posts)
Apr-18-02, 09:49 PM (EDT) 2. "RE: Modeling well known business establishments" I have a 7-Eleven on my route - with Permission of the Southland Corporation (7-Elevens Parent)Jason Webb
The Seaboard Coast Line/CSX A Line from Tampa Florida to Jacksonville, FL
http://sclcsxaline.cjb.net/
Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
Hobart (250 posts)
Apr-18-02, 10:23 PM (EDT) 3. "RE: Modeling well known business establishments" Hey All,
I made a 7-11 and stuck it in my route. What do they do about it if they catch you? I think only Union Pacific would be stupid enough to piss and moan about free advertising, but then again one never knows...

Best Regards
Hobart Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
CSXALine (549 posts)
Apr-18-02, 10:46 PM (EDT) 4. "RE: Modeling well known business establishments" I think its mostly courtesy

Jason Webb
The Seaboard Coast Line/CSX A Line from Tampa Florida to Jacksonville, FL
http://sclcsxaline.cjb.net/
Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
atsfdude (93 posts)
Apr-22-02, 09:59 AM (EDT) 8. "RE: Modeling well known business establishments" Jason, How can I get a copy of that 7-11 you have there. it would look good in a route I am working on based in California. ThnaksATSFDUDE
jtackett@bellsouth.net Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
Southern_Railway (428 posts)
Apr-18-02, 11:09 PM (EDT) 5. "RE: Modeling well known business establishments" Cal,Sea View 2 has a Toys R Us and a PC World. I assume it is OK in freeware. Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
calr (289 posts)
Apr-19-02, 10:54 AM (EDT) 6. "RE: Modeling well known business establishments" I think courtesy is correct but I think there is another reason for getting permission. Most businesses want to make sure their tradmark or logos are represented accurately and not mangled or transmogrified! (Look that one up!) If you have done a good job of accurately modeling the object or logo, I think there would be no problem getting permission from the owner. It is free advertising for them.There was an incident about 20 years ago involving Chessie System and the Chessie Cat. An HO scale manufacturer (I don't recall which) produced a locomotive in the Chessie colors but did a very bad job on the cat. Chessie System sued the manufacturer and got an injunction baring the sale of any product with the Chessie logo. They went further and barred anyone from producing models with the Chessie logo. They later went to a licensing system and licensed the use of the logo for something like $5/year! I think that some years later, the licensing was dropped.Moral of the story--If the manufacturer had done an accurate job of representing the logo and sent a sample to Chessie, probably none of this would have happened. I think the same applies to what we do. It doesn't matter if it is freeware or payware. Do a good job and nobody gets hurt.
Cal Rasmussen
Beaverton, ORColumbia Gorge Route (5% done,Celilo Bridge in Progress) Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
stationmaster (475 posts)
Apr-19-02, 03:27 PM (EDT) 7. "RE: Modeling well known business establishments" Over the years, I've made similar attempts to to obtain permission to include trademarked logos on models, publications, web sites and similar projects. I would send a polite letter to the company's legal department explaining how and why I intended to use the logo and requesting permission. In every case my letter was ignored - no response at all.Obviously, other people have had better results and this does not mean that you should not try, but that's my experience. I don't think that is a accident that except for Microsoft's "Partners" (BNSF, Amtrak, etc.) the default MSTS routes do not seem to have anything but generic signs.The problem with paying even a $5/year license is that for a route, that could really add up. If modelled accurately, there can be hundreds, even thousands of trademarks along a few miles of route through a town or city.It is my NON-LEGAL, NON-EXPERT, opinion that modelling a town, including any signs that are on public display, is not really different than photographing it and publishing the photograph. Ron
Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
rpicardi1 (48 posts)
Apr-22-02, 04:50 PM (EDT) 9. "RE: Modeling well known business establishments" What you do in your own route is your own business. It's when you start distributing that route for a fee that you might get into trouble.
Actually, I would think that no response means that you probably won't have a problem with them unless you did something that was in bad taste.Yet,Just look at the fuss going on over the new Spiderman movie over some outdoor advertising signs that were digitally altered.Be as generic as possible and you should be ok. Just my opinion.SRV Ron. Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
gxm149 (227 posts)
Apr-23-02, 08:32 AM (EDT) 10. "RE: Modeling well known business establishments" I would think that the majority of businesses wouldn't have a problem with it. Just like in Flight Simulator where the majority of airlines don't really care if you use their liveries, the one noted exception being the whole American Airlines mess. But even they agreed to let people use their liveries and logos for free aircraft. Also there doesn't seem to have been any real problems with using railroad companies logos or liveries for the trains created for the program so far. So as long as it is distributed as free only I doubt you would have a problem with any of the companies. In fact most would probably be happy to get the free advertising that having their buildings in Train Simulator would give them. If worse came to worst however you could always change it slightly too. Like change 7-11 to 9-5, Pizza Hut to Pizza House or McDonalds to MacDonalds like in the movie "Coming To America" lol
j/kI seriously doubt you would have any problems though as long as it was released and distributed only as freeware. Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
avallillo (62 posts)
Apr-25-02, 09:21 PM (EDT) 12. "RE: Modeling well known business establishments" Actually, it has to do with protecting the rights to copyrighted logos and such. As the saying goes, possession is 9/10ths of the law! It seems that if a company does not act to control the uses of its registered trademarks and logos, it can eventually lose the rights to them by default. That was why American Airlines felt it had to be approached for permission to use its logos. This could be the case for any company with trademarks or logos. Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
stationmaster (475 posts)
Apr-23-02, 11:44 PM (EDT) 11. "RE: Modeling well known business establishments" Hollywood is careful about putting recognizable trademarks in movies and TV because they CHARGE the owner of the trademark for the privilege (aka "Product Placement"). Hey, now there's an idea Ron
Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Lock | Archive | Remove

Lobby | Topics | Previous Topic | Next Topic