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PeterVonFrosta2 (29 posts)
Mar-25-02, 03:46 PM (EST) "Announcing my first station project" Hi route designers,I just wanted to let the world know that my first station
project is soon to be finished.
After doing some loco modeling, the first station I chose
to model is the closest large station to where I live,
the station of Hamburg-Harburg in Hamburg, Germany.
(Station Code AHAR).Most of the modeling is done, the control tower is still missing
but the textures are prepared, some surroundings need to be
added and some still has to be done concerning the textures
(some of them have not yet been properly mapped).The station has three platforms with two tracks each, plus some
bypass tracks. South of the station, the track splits up into
the two main lines Hamburg-Hannover-Kassel-Frankfurt or Munich
and Hamburg-Bremen-Ruhr area-Cologne. North of the station,
the tracks continue to Hamburg Central Station, Hamburg-Dammtor
and Hamburg-Altona Terminal. Another route leaving Harburg
stations in a north-westernly direction is the route to Stade
an Cuxhaven at the North Sea Coast. (Only operated by diesel
engines, as overhead power ends where the metro trains end on
that route). All categories of trains stop at Harburg:
ICE (InterCityExpress), InterCity/EuroCity, InterRegio,
RegionalExpress, CityExpress and other regional services as
well as some night trains to France and Switzerland.
There is also an underground station for metro trains below the
main station. The station once used to have a pretty big
own service yard which has been closed years ago. Some of
the tracks belonging to the yard have been removed, but the
buildings are still there.Here are some pics: Now for some real pictures:
(This one shows the control tower left of the red brick building
which still needs to be done. The tower once housed the
facilities for the switch control around the station (control
facility code Hhf) but is now inactive as the entire network
around Hamburg is being remote controlled by Altona Control.)I'll announce when the model will be going public.
What do you think about it?PvF
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Table of Contents

Subject Author Message Date ID RE: Announcing my first station pro... DKlemm Mar-25-02 1 RE: Announcing my first station pro... wolf63 Mar-25-02 2 RE: Announcing my first station pro... SkyRat Mar-25-02 3 RE: Announcing my first station pro... davidbeach Mar-26-02 4 RE: Announcing my first station pro... PeterVonFrosta2 Mar-26-02 5 RE: Announcing my first station pro... davidbeach Mar-28-02 6 RE: Announcing my first station pro... PeterVonFrosta2 Mar-28-02 7 RE: Announcing my first station pro... davidbeach Mar-28-02 8 RE: Announcing my first station pro... PeterVonFrosta2 Mar-29-02 9 RE: Announcing my first station pro... davidbeach Mar-30-02 10

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DKlemm (1336 posts)
Mar-25-02, 03:56 PM (EST) 1. "RE: Announcing my first station project" Very nice. Impressive work. David Klemm
Illinois Central Route
Illinois and St Louis Divisions
Ver 0.7 uploaded
Decatur IL 51% done, off playing with trains and doing research for the next update!
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wolf63 (48 posts)
Mar-25-02, 04:06 PM (EST) 2. "RE: Announcing my first station project" Very, very good!!! Thank you
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SkyRat (89 posts)
Mar-25-02, 10:24 PM (EST) 3. "RE: Announcing my first station project" if i was building a route in germany, i'd buy all the rights to your design! In fact, i should hire a german designer to build that station for me in the states! Beautiful work.SkyRat Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
davidbeach (113 posts)
Mar-26-02, 01:43 AM (EST) 4. "RE: Announcing my first station project" LAST EDITED ON Mar-26-02 AT 01:54 AM (EST)Peter,I lived in Hamburg Jan-June 1979 and I could tell that you had the Harburg station before I even scrolled down to the pictures of the real thing. Great job.How much are you doing? A challange for the activity designers that I don't think that MSTS will allow would be the Paris - Copenhagen trains. When I was there, the train would come into Hamburg HBF from the south (through Harburg) on one of the four west - overhead electric - tracks. After the station stop it would pull into the north throat, where a diesel would be coupled on to the south end of the train and the electic uncoupled. The train would then reenter the station on the Berlin side, between the S-Bahn tracks and the west tracks.Busy, busy place in the late afternoon, the four tracks to the south would have one train after another, just as fast as they could pull them through, often lined up one per block to beyond Dammtor, waiting for an open track.Waiting to ride a train of your route.David Beach Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
PeterVonFrosta2 (29 posts)
Mar-26-02, 04:20 AM (EST) 5. "RE: Announcing my first station project" Hi David,
my current plan looks like this:
The first route will be from Harburg to Central. The route
will consist of the tracks for the normal trains leaving
Harburg to the north, crossing the B4/B75 motorway and
the southern part of the Elbe river, going across Veddel
island, crossing the northern Elbe river and then turning to
the left towards the left half of Central station. Also
there will be the tracks for the Metro(S-Bahn) line S3,
which is the line I am always using when going into the city
(which is not too often). They start below Harburg at the
S-Station Harburg, leaving through a tunnel and surfaceing
just behind the B4/B75 crossing of the normal railways.
From that point on, the S-Bahn tracks run next to the normal
tracks until after the second river crossing, where the
S-Bahn becomes elevated and takes a longer route to Central
via the Hammerbrook/City-Süd station. So the route I am
planning is rather two routes in one, as in reality, the
S-Bahn can't use the normal train tracks and vice versa,
the S-Bahn is 750V DC third rail powered.At the time you were in Hamburg, the S3 might not yet have
existed, as far as I know it was built in the early 80s.For the route I have some quite good material: some students
at my university (Technical University of Hamburg-Harburg)
made a short film which included a ride in the cab of an
S3 train from Central to Harburg, speeded up so that a 20
minute ride fit into a 20 seconds sequence. When I saw it,
I asked them to give me the original material and I got it,
so I got the whole route on video. Plus, I can extract the
geography from satellite pictures.I uploaded the sequence to my university webspace, it's
2.95 MB without sound, if you are interested to have a
look at it, it's at:http://www.tu-harburg.de/~siib0387/s3.avi(it's DivX 3 compressed).
It shows the ride from Central to Harburg via Hammerbrook,
Veddel and Wilhelmsburg.This is my first plan, the route might then be extended to
the north (Dammtor/Altona) and/or to the south via
Meckelfeld and Maschen towards Lüneburg and Hannover
or via Hittfeld towards Buchholz, Tostedt and Bremen.The next station to be modeled is Central, which is now
a bit easier than I thought as I have finally understood
how transparent textures work.I'll keep you updated!
PvF
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davidbeach (113 posts)
Mar-28-02, 00:05 AM (EST) 6. "RE: Announcing my first station project" Peter,Construction had started on the third-rail S3 route while I was there. At that point though the S3 and S4 routes both used conventional cars with a locomotive in a push-pull mode, may even have both been diesel hauled, but that I don't remember for sure. The tunnel route between Central and Altona opened while I was there, and Altona was a mess the whole time as it was being reconfigured from a single level stub terminal to half stub, half through on the lower level. Central was also being added to on the north side to add track 0 to accommodate the extra trains that the S3 route would be adding.Is the museum group still active out at Ahmula (I'm sure that isn't spelled right), which was the end of the electrification on the S2 line at the time? (I think that what the line number was, I'm on vacation at my parent's and all of my reference material is at home.)If only Hamburg had the light rail that Frankfurt had to go along with everything that it did have, Hamburg would be about the ideal transit city.As you extend your line from Harburg to Hamburg HBF, does the station "Nicht Austagen" (spelling?) still exist? When I was there, there was what had to be an abandoned station platform two or three signal blocks south of HBF, where trains might often be held waiting for a track at HBF. Rather than remove the platform, all of the station signs had be changed to read "Nicht Austagen".David Beach Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
PeterVonFrosta2 (29 posts)
Mar-28-02, 06:13 AM (EST) 7. "RE: Announcing my first station project" Hi David,Concerning what you wrote about the way things were back
in '79:
The third-rail S3 between Altona and Harburg replaced
the normal trains operating as S3 trains on that route.
But the S3 is even longer to the south: from Harburg,
the S3 continues to Maschen via Meckelfeld and to
Hittfeld (two separate routes both operated as S3).
These services are being operated by normal trains until
present day. (It wouldn't be that bad if the trains weren't
the oldest pieces of crap the DB has in stock. The cars
are facelifted versions of the original "Silberlinge"
cars from the 60's/70's, and the locomotives are class
141's, built from 1956(!) on.) It is unlikely that newer
trains will be used for these services as (at least on
the Meckelfeld-Maschen route) it is planned to move the
entire route, including the construction of completely
new stations. The S4 to Ahrensburg is also still being
operated by normal trains. These trains are being hauled
by diesel locomotives (class 218), as that line is still
not electrified and will not be in the near future.The museum at Aumühle is still active, but I've never
been there before so I can't tell you what it is like
today. The same group also operates a 4 km line on which
they use some of their historic trains.Their websites are (unfortunately, only in German):http://www.schleswig-holstein.de/museen/tec_ind/lokschuppen_aumuehle.html
(for the Aumühle branch)http://www.schleswig-holstein.de/museen/tec_ind/museumsbahn_schoenberg.html
(for the Schönber branch, that's where their line is)The only museum that has closed in the meantime is the
Wilhelmsburg roundhouse which used to have historic
steam locos and cars. It must have been sometimes
in the early 90's that their roundhouse was almost completely
destroyed by a fire, and only very few exhibits survived the
fire. I think they can still be seen somewhere, but I don't
know where exactly.By today, Hamburg has the light rail "you asked for",
at least on the Harburg-Central route. The standard
ticket you buy for a single trip on the buses and S-/U-
metros is also valid for the RegionalExpress trains
coming from Bremen or Hannover and going to Central
or Altona. These trains have modern double-decker
cars and it only takes them 8 minutes from Harburg
to Central instead of the 20 minutes it takes the
S3 to get there. The route to Berlin (via Hamburg-
Bergedorf) has been expanded and also has some light
rail traffic.But even with these services, Hamburg unfortunately
is far away from being an ideal transit city.
When you were in Hamburg, what you saw was the last
large expansion in the railways network until today.
Until today, Hamburg does NOT have ANY railways
connection to the airport. You can only go there by
car or by bus (not very reliable if you want to get
there in time) Such a connection is now being discussed
once again, but will most likely not be realised before
2010. There once had been a plan for a line called
the U4, which was meant to go from the airport via
Central and downtown to Lurup. It should have been
built right after the S3 was completed, but it never
was as the city at that time had run out of money
(a state which has not changed in the meantime).
Only some tunnel pieces for the U4 were built at
Central (resulting in two "ghost" platforms with
empty tunnels) and at other stations that were being
built or modernised at that time, and for which it
wouldn't have made sense to dig up the surface above
once again when the U4's construction would have
reached that station.I think that the abandoned platform you mentioned does no
more exist. The next platform there is south of Central
is the S-Bahn station Veddel, which has always only
been accessible by the S-Bahn trains and was most likely
not even built or finished when you were in Hamburg. But
I have posted a thread in a forum that deals with such
issues in Hamburg to find out more about that.Now to give you an idea of how the area around central
looks like today:The red box is Central station. To the south,
the yellow line marks the way the normal DB trains
take. On that route must have been the platform you
wrote about.
The blue box next to the yellow line is the
Högerdamm depot. Only regional trains are being
"parked" here, long distance trains/locos go to
Langenfelde or Eidelstedt depots.
The light green line is the S3 which was most likely not
yet built in '79. It is elevated up to the point where
the yellow and the green line meet. The little box
in the middle of the line is the Hammerbrook station
(the station with the red walls that can be seen in the
video).
The dark green Box is Berliner Tor station, which by today
is a combined regional services/S-Bahn on 2 levels/U-Bahn
station (pretty large).
The purple arrow next to Berliner Tor shows which route
the trains to Ahrensburg(S4) and Lübeck take.
The dark blue arrow shows the route to Hamburg-Bergedorf
and Berlin.

My first route will include the light green and yellow
lines, Central itself and the Högerdamm depot. I do
not yet know what to do about the tracks to Berliner Tor,
but first I have to get Harburg finished...PvF
(And by the way, this is not my real name. Peter von
Frosta is the name I always use when playing games
online or at LAN-Partys. Peter von Frosta is the
"mascot" of a company selling frozen food) Therefore,
I should rather writeImmo Birnbaum, Hamburg/Germany,
a.k.a. PvF
sorry for the confusion
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davidbeach (113 posts)
Mar-28-02, 11:55 PM (EST) 8. "RE: Announcing my first station project" Immo,Boy, does this all bring back memories. Construction had started on the S3 line, but they were still a year or more away from running trains.Since I was there during the 1979 International Transportation Exibition (don't recall off hand what the German name was), I get a real kick out of the work that people are doing on the mag-lev stuff, particularily the TransRapid 7. How about including the TransRapid 6 line that existed for a few months between Messehallen and Heilegiest Feld (spelling is surely butchered). I havn't responded to any of the mag-lev threads, but certainly unlike those modeling it, I am one of the throng who managed a one-way ticket to ride the mag-lev.Looking forward to your route,David Beach. Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
PeterVonFrosta2 (29 posts)
Mar-29-02, 05:31 AM (EST) 9. "RE: Announcing my first station project" David,I remember having read about that TR06 exhibition that once
was in Hamburg. Concerning the Transrapid, I was very lucky.
The father of a friend of mine is in a high position at the
company that does all the security services for the Transrapid
Testing Facilities (TVE) in Lathen, Emsland. He managed to
get some tickets for the FIRST day on which the public could
take a ride on the Transrapid for the Expo 2000, and I was
invited to join them. The day was June 1st, 2000. So we took
a ride on the newest of the Transrapid Trains, the TR08.
It was a great experience, and it was an exciting moment
when the display mounted in the train was showing the top
speed: "405 km/h".The TR07 is no longer in use and was displayed for the
public, so that everyone could take a look at the cab.The TR06, after it was no longer in service, was "stolen".
The story behind that is the following:
Lathen lies close to the border to the Netherlands.
Just on the other side of the border lies a small village
called Drachten. In Drachten, there is an old tradition:
every year on May 1st, the people of Drachten "steal" something
and bring it to Drachten. The "stolen" object is then being
displayed for an entrance fee, after a few weeks the "stolen"
object will be returned and all the money made with the
entrance fees is being donated for charity. (I was told
that they have once "stolen" a complete Boeing 747 jet of
Royal Dutch Airlines KLM and once they even "stole" the
throne of the Netherlands!) When TR06 was stolen, the exhibit
was such a success attracting so many people that it has
remained in Drachten until present day. So that's where TR06
has gone.I have lots of pics and half an hour of video footage which
I will make available to the loco designers (Cabview for
TR07!) as soon as I get my own web-server set up during
the next week.Here are two highlights already:
Top Speed!
The best photo I ever made: TR08 flying past the
scenic hill (to which I went after my ride on the
train) at 400 km/h, the original picture is 1600x1200
taken with a digital camera, with absolutely no blur!By the way: this is what I found out about the abandoned
platform: no details about its location or when it was
closed, but it seems that the station was once callled
"Oberhafen". Immo Birnbaum a.k.a. PvF
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davidbeach (113 posts)
Mar-30-02, 01:26 AM (EST) 10. "RE: Announcing my first station project" Immo,404 kph huh? Gee, TR06 only got to 100 kph (as I recall, though 23 years after the fact I may be confusing 100 kph = 60 mph with 60 kph) when I rode it. Bet the track you rode on was a bit longer than the track I rode on. On one hand, I was disapointed that the Hamburg - Berlin Mag-Lev route was cancelled, but on the otherhand for the cost and energy usage of the Mag-Lev they can build a whole lot of conventional track and run a whole lot of conventional trains.Someday I hope to get back to Hamburg and catch up with everything that was there and see what is new and different.Oberhafen may well have been the platform, seems it was about where your yellow line turned north to Hamburg-Central.David Beach Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

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