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Signalmaster (191 posts)
Mar-25-02, 12:59 PM (EST) "Corrupted Route-More" The problem centers around these three switches in the middle:As I look at it, the problem more than likely is that I joined three switches without an intervening connecting piece. I can't select any of those switches without the whole program taking a dive. Not only that,it now takes the whole operating system out with it. Having a program that allows this and many other things we've all discussed here is shear nonsense.That's just terrible performance for a commercial product. The software engineers who let this thing get to the sales shelves should all be looking for jobs in other fields.Any suggestions on getting rid of those switches?Hank Sundermeyer Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
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Subject Author Message Date ID RE: Corrupted Route-More rgarber Mar-25-02 1 RE: Corrupted Route-More Signalmaster Mar-25-02 2 RE: Corrupted Route-More enocell Mar-25-02 3 RE: Corrupted Route-More rgarber Mar-25-02 5 RE: Corrupted Route-More NickF Mar-25-02 7 RE: Corrupted Route-More Vince Mar-25-02 4 RE: Corrupted Route-More CStevens Mar-25-02 6 RE: Corrupted Route-More Vince Mar-25-02 12 RE: Corrupted Route-More Signalmaster Mar-25-02 8 RE: Corrupted Route-More ccyko Mar-25-02 9 RE: Corrupted Route-More rgarber Mar-25-02 10 RE: Corrupted Route-More Jitny Mar-25-02 11 RE: Corrupted Route-More Hobart Mar-26-02 13

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rgarber (1496 posts)
Mar-25-02, 01:15 PM (EST) 1. "RE: Corrupted Route-More" Hank, there is a solution. If you don't have signals up, you're in business. If you do have signals up, take this hanky.The first thing I would try to do is delete all the track around this area and you don't have to save either. Eventually with some trial and error you'll figure the one causing you the crash. Then once that problem is eliminated, start deleting the switches.Once you got that done, you should look to see if you got a blue pole sticking out of the ground somewhere there. If not, they you are probably back in business.If you do got a blue pole you got a choice. You can either maneuver your track away from the blue pole and just leave the thing, or....... you can try to delete the thing by going into the world tile and figuring out what switch it is and deleting it there. If you find the thing, and it's not easy, then you need to rebuild the track database.IfffFFFF, you rebuild the track database, any track objects will probably come back as errors later on and they'll have to be removed.I chose to leave the blue pole in cause I had everything signaled.NOooooOOOOWWW... there's something I haven't tried that might work when it comes to rebuilding a track database with signals. Time consuming though. Go back to all the interlockings with links and open the properties box and hit the reset or clear button. Then try rebuilding. I haven't tried this yet but if it works, at least you won't lose all the signals. But if it doesn't work, you may have lost alot of time.Sorry, no good answers on things like this, and I've come to the conclusion that no amount of RAM would have prevented this either.Rich Garber Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
Signalmaster (191 posts)
Mar-25-02, 01:32 PM (EST) 2. "RE: Corrupted Route-More" Hi, Rich>Hank, there is a solution. If
>you don't have signals up,
>you're in business. If you
>do have signals up, take
>this hanky. The signals(sigh) are all gone, as are platforms, level crossings, etc,etc.
>The first thing I would try
>to do is delete all
>the track around this area
>and you don't have to
>save either. Eventually with some
>trial and error you'll figure
>the one causing you the
>crash. Then once that problem
>is eliminated, start deleting the
>switches. I've done that, I think. I've removed all connecting track but trying to select any one of those 3 switches locks the program and I have to ctrl-alt-del out of it.The real bad news is that I have 2 other yards build like that. They're bad too. I can't touch those switches with the cursor without killing the program.>Once you got that done, you
>should look to see if
>you got a blue pole
>sticking out of the ground
>somewhere there. If not, they
>you are probably back in
>business. The only blue lines are the ones attached to the bad switches. I can't touch them. These switches had no signals attached to them.Hank
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enocell (513 posts)
Mar-25-02, 01:49 PM (EST) 3. "RE: Corrupted Route-More" I can't see anything wrong with those switches. I have dozens of switches placed like those. Maybe you can place some pieces over these? If you can, just write their coordinates down, and find the pieces in the .w file. Then remove all pieces with *almost* same coordinates (there will be some variation in the coordinates).Enocell Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
rgarber (1496 posts)
Mar-25-02, 02:04 PM (EST) 5. "RE: Corrupted Route-More" Hank,I've seen your other post and I can understand your frustration. Let me try and say this again... you got to remove the surrounding pieces until you find the one that is crashing the route. I don't mean the one you touch. There's another piece around there the tdb must see as connecting to the failing switch. You got to delete the linkage (but you can't see it). This is why you have to delete the surrounding pieces. If it means deleting the whole yard then by all means do it. Trust me on this one, I just been through it myself a week or so back.So using your track plan from the other post, if you have to start deleting pieces from the other yard ladders, go ahead. Rebuilding track like that is not as bad as you might think. Usually it goes pretty fast because you know what you had.And if you are really frustrated, delete all those yards first. SAVE. Then get in there and delete the switches. Once they're gone, they're gone. Then you can move full speed ahead. Try Enocell's recommendation first if you like. I'd much rather be laying track than trying to fix the thing.The point about the blue pole is IF there is one... then it gets troublesome and you got to do the rest.Yeah, working with the editor is like playing roulette at times.Rich Garber Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
NickF (804 posts)
Mar-25-02, 02:58 PM (EST) 7. "RE: Corrupted Route-More" Hank,Having been through this very recently, I'd suggest manually deleting the offending switches through WordPad, editing the world tile directly. My approach was to first BACKUP the tile, then cut every track object from the tile and past them into a temporary folder. Then begin copying them back a few at a time until it crashes, then back off your last copy. Copy fewer pieces from the last attempt and see if it crashes. Eventually you'll locate the offending bad piece. Leave it out and continue the process until everything else works.It is somewhat time-consuming, but in my case I already had over 300 objects in the tile, and it saved me from having to start that tile over from scratch.I also want to say that once I'd done this and rebuilt the track database I was able to add the exact track configuration back, and have had no problems with it since. Go figure...Nick Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
Vince (117 posts)
Mar-25-02, 01:58 PM (EST) 4. "RE: Corrupted Route-More" Hank,Here's a tip to prevent crashes and corrupting the .tdb, .rdb and world files when adding or editing track:1) Delete _ALL_ TRACK OBJECTS in the area where you will be working. This is very, very important!!!!2) NEVER place a switch (turnout) with the point end of the switch unconnected. ALWAYS place a 10 meter straight track section at the point end of the switch where you see the red pole. Leaving the two blue pole ends of the switch unconnected is OK as is connecting the switches the way you did in the screen shot.3) Switches must NEVER be placed point end to point end. Always place a 10 meter track section between the two switches.4) If you inadverdently select a piece of track with a track object on it, for example, a milepost,signal ect, on it, immediatly exit the route editor WITHOUT SAVING!!! If you save the .tdb/world files WILL be corrupted.5) Number 4 above also applies if you select a piece of track that runs under or over a road OR track that has track objects on it. For example, you have a road that runs over a bridge and the road has a car spawner(s) on it. If you select the track that runs under the bridge with the car spawner and then save the route you WILL corrupt the .tdb/world files. Get rid of the car spawner first (along with any track objects) and there will be no problems. This is one of the most frustrating bugs in the route editor but if you follow the guideline above, the bug can be avoided.Just remember, even just SELECTING a trackpiece (where it turns to wireframe) and the track has an object (a signal, sound region ect.) on it and then saving WILL kill the route.Bottom line: No track or road objects permitted in an area where track OR road modifications are being done. Delete ALL of the objects and add them back after the track and or road modifications are completed. Best Regards,
Vince Cockeram
NEC Track Team
www.nectrackteam.com
(site is under construction)
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CStevens (8 posts)
Mar-25-02, 02:34 PM (EST) 6. "RE: Corrupted Route-More" Vince, would you define "point end of the switch".
Thanks!
Carey
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Vince (117 posts)
Mar-25-02, 11:00 PM (EST) 12. "RE: Corrupted Route-More" >Vince, would you define "point end
>of the switch".
>Thanks!
>Carey Standing at the single track end of a switch you are at the point end. The points (the part of the switch that moves to select the switch exit) are facing you. vince
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Signalmaster (191 posts)
Mar-25-02, 03:10 PM (EST) 8. "RE: Corrupted Route-More" OK, I started removing pieces in this area and as predicted the other yard has the same problem; as soon as you attempt to cursor select the switch, down the toilet it goes.But it gave me one more "clue" before the flush:What the hell does that mean?? Now I have 6 switches you cant touch w/o the program crashing! And there's still a similar yard at the other end of the route. It seems to me just leaving these switches there out of the route introduces a big chunck of instability to come haunting later.I certainly appreciate the help, but unless we find away to delete those switches, this route's dead.I did find a backup copy that predates all this trackage and I think I'm going to cut my lose and start again from there.But it has signals in portions. It loads fine, you can zoom all over it w/o error messages, has survived a DB rebuild w/o error messages. Is there anything else I can/should do to assure myself it's as bug free as possible? And I'll bite the bullet, no more signals added until the track is in and final.Hank Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
ccyko (445 posts)
Mar-25-02, 04:14 PM (EST) 9. "RE: Corrupted Route-More" There is a way to remove these switches manually, but it takes some work and chance.
First you will have to know approxamatly where the culprate pieces of track are in the route. Once you know that you will need to go into the world tile with a text editor and search for the approxamate X,Y,Z values of the pieces. Once you have found your pieces, delete them. Next delete the tdb file and its backup. Then rebuild the track database and you should be on your way!-Chris
Chicago-L Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
rgarber (1496 posts)
Mar-25-02, 04:26 PM (EST) 10. "RE: Corrupted Route-More" I believe a vector means a path point, which is usually the point end of a switch. The non-vector is problem the turn-out side of the switch. The message isn't really telling you what you don't already know. You gotta problem.Here's another option you can try. I had to do this one time. And like I said, this is just another option. I had this problem in the East Metro where a switch failed at a critical juncture. So I just said 'to rootbeer with it' and deleted the world tile and its backup. I would save a backup to another folder.You might even want to do a tdb rebuild after deleting the world tile.Just another option though. Like I said before, to me I rather be rebuilding track than stuck trying to fix the tdb.Rich Garber Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
Jitny (145 posts)
Mar-25-02, 06:53 PM (EST) 11. "RE: Corrupted Route-More" Hey
Put all but 1 world tile into another folder that has nothing to do with your route... Add 1 world tile at a time till you get an error, then you know where it is. delete that 1 world file and substitute the backup you said you have. If it is corrupt, you'll have to rebuild that tile, but, not the whole route..... Make sure you resave that rebuilt tile. It sometimes takes a while, sometimes not.
This has saved my butt a LOT of times when all else fails.Regards
Bob

Mobile AL
M&O,GM&O,CSX,IC,SOUTHERN,BNSF,L&N

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Hobart (228 posts)
Mar-26-02, 00:38 AM (EST) 13. "RE: Corrupted Route-More" Hey All,
Those look like wye switches, I never use em after reading bad things about em in this forum. They're evil, I'd rather have funky looking wyes than a tdb meltdown. Am I correct in assuming you deleted the *.tdb, *.rdb and rebuilt the track data base and are still having these problems? I had some problems and rebuilding worked for me. After the rebuild I was able the delete the problem child. Good luck.
Best Regards
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