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controll (391 posts)
Feb-17-02, 05:57 PM (EST) "Creating Backdrops for routes" LAST EDITED ON Feb-17-02 AT 05:59 PM (EST)Here is an idea I had for creating some backdrops for routes to fill in some of the distant areas and make it work for folks....
It still needs some tuning to get it right...but here's a look at the general idea.
Looking across normal scenery to the backdrop.
From inside the cab...looking thru normal scenery to the backdrop.
The actual outside shot of the backdrop to get the idea of the scale of the thing...(3D Canvas is limited to a 500x1000 pixel size object in the program).
Another idea of the scale of the backdrop (it is 3 300x500 units merged together for this backdrop) (More units can be linked to extend upward or lengthwise)It may work in specific circumstances where the sky is not as open so that the backdrop top edge is not seen. Or possibly we can use a sky backdrop to cover the real sky with one we desire.Let me know if anyone has a specific backdrop or photo they want on a backdrop....Controll Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
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Subject Author Message Date ID RE: Creating Backdrops for routes ronik24 Feb-17-02 1 RE: Creating Backdrops for routes controll Feb-17-02 2 RE: Creating Backdrops for routes Hobart Feb-18-02 3 RE: Creating Backdrops for routes controll Feb-18-02 7 RE: Creating Backdrops for routes RonA Feb-18-02 4 RE: Creating Backdrops for routes ronik24 Feb-18-02 5 RE: Creating Backdrops for routes controll Feb-18-02 6 RE: Creating Backdrops for routes controll Feb-18-02 8 RE: Creating Backdrops for routes LawrenceKellie Feb-19-02 11 RE: Creating Backdrops for routes steveh Feb-19-02 9 RE: Creating Backdrops for routes controll Feb-19-02 10 RE: Creating Backdrops for routes henry3 Feb-19-02 12 RE: Creating Backdrops for routes controll Feb-19-02 13 RE: Creating Backdrops for routes Southern_Railway Feb-19-02 14 RE: Creating Backdrops for routes ExpressMark Feb-21-02 20 RE: Creating Backdrops for routes hakuna1981 Feb-20-02 15 RE: Creating Backdrops for routes kwk100 Feb-20-02 16 RE: Creating Backdrops for routes controll Feb-20-02 17 RE: Creating Backdrops for routes blvdbill Feb-20-02 19 RE: Creating Backdrops for routes controll Feb-20-02 18 RE: Creating Backdrops for routes highball5 Feb-22-02 21

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ronik24 (189 posts)
Feb-17-02, 06:12 PM (EST) 1. "RE: Creating Backdrops for routes" Hi!
Probably something I will use...You could use transparency to make mountain peaks.Greetings,
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controll (391 posts)
Feb-17-02, 07:50 PM (EST) 2. "RE: Creating Backdrops for routes" Roni,Thanks for the tip on Transparency...I converted the TGA and it works great.....Should have known it would be something easy to make it okk great.
Both of the above images are without using full transparency before applying the graphic to the objects.And this one is fully transparent so it looks great....If you use this technique for distant vistas...you can eliminate much of the mountain work that some routes require and also pair down the amount of trees needed to hide the fact of no scenery beyond the edge of your routes.Thanks again Roni Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
Hobart (202 posts)
Feb-18-02, 00:13 AM (EST) 3. "RE: Creating Backdrops for routes" Hey All,
The default terrain does'nt look anything like Cajon Pass so I thought I would try and spice it up a bit. I threw in the Mormon Rocks. I think it needs some adjustment but it works o.k.

Best Regards
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controll (391 posts)
Feb-18-02, 01:55 PM (EST) 7. "RE: Creating Backdrops for routes" Hi Hobart,To make this pic look better you can "mask" the first areas where the Panel Mountains become visible, by raising the terrain there so that only the view face onto the panel is really player visible or use some trees to accomplish this same thing.....it will take some time to figure out where all the visual clues need to be added but I think it will look fantastic when your done.Controll Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
RonA (41 posts)
Feb-18-02, 12:48 PM (EST) 4. "RE: Creating Backdrops for routes" Thanks, guys - nice tip! I'll have to remember it when I get that far on my route building.
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ronik24 (189 posts)
Feb-18-02, 01:17 PM (EST) 5. "RE: Creating Backdrops for routes" Hi!
Because I couldn't try it out yet, one question:Is there a problem with the visualisation of textures and objects when the distance becomes larger?I'm asking this, because textures and objects usually become less detailed and finally disappear when they are farther away, but these backdrops have to be at some distance from the tracks...And: what effect has a change in visibility range on it?Greetings,
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controll (391 posts)
Feb-18-02, 01:49 PM (EST) 6. "RE: Creating Backdrops for routes" LAST EDITED ON Feb-18-02 AT 01:50 PM (EST)Roni & others,I experimented with this new idea to fit in 3 equal sized panels of mountains on the same side of the tracks as my original in the above pics....
What happens is that the panels your not adjacent to disappear due to the distance involved...so it looks like this technique is suited for small (less than 500 meter) panels only so that the disappearing act does not happen....
My suggestion is that you can place as many of these panels in a route as you like without taking a frame rate hit..(I didn't see a hit after three of them this largest size)...and they must be used in areas where the fact that they are just pics is not apparent...(say in between a set of mountains to act as distant vista...or between two building as additional scenery.
This is very important so as to give the realism desired without losing the effect of the backdrop.I have used several panels in cities to go between existing buildings and give the appearance of additional city scape...
I am also looking to use the panel method to place water textures under bridges to appear as real water (so far no suitable pics have been located) and this method would require the panels to be twisted and bent along a river pathway and have trees hiding the ends where it goes into the distances.I think this can be used to create a wide variety of senic vistas and real world places to add to the clutter of generic buildings and mountains the sim offers us now.Controll Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
controll (391 posts)
Feb-18-02, 02:43 PM (EST) 8. "RE: Creating Backdrops for routes" Here are the cityscape scenes....LaterControll Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
LawrenceKellie (1368 posts)
Feb-19-02, 03:27 PM (EST) 11. "RE: Creating Backdrops for routes" Great concept.Lawrence Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
steveh (2 posts)
Feb-19-02, 08:47 AM (EST) 9. "RE: Creating Backdrops for routes" Great idea.
Got any simple instructions on how to create them ? Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
controll (391 posts)
Feb-19-02, 03:04 PM (EST) 10. "RE: Creating Backdrops for routes" You will need a 3D program like 3D Studio or 3D Canvas to amke the panels...or have someone who has these programs make the panels for you...then take any photos that fit your desired scenery and use TGATOOL2 to alter the ACE files with your new pictures...then place the new ACE in the TEXTURE directory of the route you are working on...and place the SD and S file of the panel into the SHAPE directory of the same route....
Then edit the REF file for the route to include the shape at the end of the REF file..(more info on this available as a tutorial on this website).Then go into the Route Editor and place the panels out side existing or between existing scenery and save it.your done.Simple Huh ...whew.Controll Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
henry3 (623 posts)
Feb-19-02, 04:48 PM (EST) 12. "RE: Creating Backdrops for routes" I think I understand what you're doing here, but I'm far from sure. Do you start with a "generic" panel and adjust the alpha channel to fit the scene you want to use on the backdrop? Or is the panel specific to the scene you want to use?Thanks,Henry Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
controll (391 posts)
Feb-19-02, 08:02 PM (EST) 13. "RE: Creating Backdrops for routes" Hi,The photos panel can be whatever picture you have to put on it,
I have used the mountains and city so far and am looking into other possible options to use in many areas where a simple panel is more efficient than making scenery from scratch....
filling a void between buildings or mountains...etc.
The pictures are on 512x512 BMPs and the size of the panel can be made anysize by someone with the 3D software.
I will make panels for requests if anyone wants to try this in their own routes...so far I have not placed any panels on the downloads page for general use as it is pretty much a specific size and instance that someone will use this feature with.Here are a few of the pics I am using with the panels....





Some of these do not have the transparency applied to the skies so they are not quite ready to go onto panels....but each of the pictures you want to apply to a panel needs to be about twice the size (pixel wise) of the BMP your going to use for the graphics....so if you want them on 512x512 BMP's use a picture that is about 700pixels x anysize pixels and it will work well otherwise you will see the pixelation on the panel in MSTS.Controll
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Southern_Railway (185 posts)
Feb-19-02, 10:10 PM (EST) 14. "RE: Creating Backdrops for routes" That is really, REALLY impressive. Guess I'm going to have to get 3D Studio or 3D Canvas and learn to use it. So much potential. Wow! Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
ExpressMark (99 posts)
Feb-21-02, 00:51 AM (EST) 20. "RE: Creating Backdrops for routes" Just a thought, call it my 2 cents. I like the idea of the use of fill in panels, I think it can have its place, but I do feel more thought and planning should go into it that rotaing pictures on a pannel. Here is why, and how I would approach this. First what ever scenery I am going to put on a pannel I should know a little about so that it is done proper. 1. I would in putting a picture on a Panel or single face polygon would wonder about the scale.
Now if you are doing fictional Route that may not be of a real concern but even so it would be good practice. Lets say my Mountain is 6000' high at its peek, I would make sure my Panel would reflect that....as far as length I would adjust it till it looked right unless the info was available.
Now lets look at this from City Scapes, Scale should be a factor as well.I would try and determine what the scale of a building in the Forefront of the pic and make sure that it would reflect that as the buildings I place in front of it will certainly bring it out.
Mainly, I woud try to use it sparingly, so that it will enhance the route not make it appear as a Model RailRoad ROute, where you can see the 3 Demesional Objects sitting in front of a 2D plain. This idea has some great potential, in fact I have been thinking of applying it.
Application wise I think for distance mountains it shows the most promise at the moment, but I have some ideas for close up too, but Distant fill ins ...that could greatly enhance a route if done proper. Keep it up guys, you are to something here that will probably be seen in many routes to come.Mark Branscum
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hakuna1981 (23 posts)
Feb-20-02, 02:52 AM (EST) 15. "RE: Creating Backdrops for routes" hello,I just want to ask how to import these pics to the game,need I make a 3d model?please tell me,thanks Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
kwk100 (195 posts)
Feb-20-02, 03:05 AM (EST) 16. "RE: Creating Backdrops for routes" That would make a great tutorial. I still haven't figured out texturing!! All the tutorial would need to be is how to create the correct size of panel, and then how to stick the photo on the correct side and then how to make the backdrop useable by the game (how to import it into a .s file) LOOKS SPECTACULAR, ESPECIALLY THE CITY!!!


Trains from http://tgs.railfan.net/kwk100 Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
controll (391 posts)
Feb-20-02, 04:33 PM (EST) 17. "RE: Creating Backdrops for routes" Hey Guys,It's really a simple process.....so here goes the directions.Create a directory for your work under MSTS "Samples" directory...I called mine BACKGROUNDS.Place all your work (Models and Images) in this directory.First select a photo that depicts the secenery or building or whatever you want to place in MSTS.Then using a paint program (that supports transparency) make a 512x512 pixel blank image (white background) and copy your original photo to this new image. (This will be your texture image in MSTS.) Resize the photo to fit the 512 pixel width. Then save this as a BMP named "for example : Mountains1.BMP".Then paint out the sky of the image leaving only terrain or buildings, etc. Use white to paint out the sky.Then use TGATOOL2 and load the BMP "Mountains1"....Save the image as an ACE file with ALPHA "Mountains1.ACE"....Then reload the ACE file in TGATOOL2 and create a transparency template....Then send the transparency template to your paint program and replace the white-ed out sky and other white non-terrain/building areas with black. And paint over the image area (where the actual terrain/buildings are) with white.You should end up with a black and white image.reload your transparency into TGATOOL2 using the reload feature.Now you should see the ACE file in the main screen of TGATOOL2 and your black and white transparency image in the small window.Export your ACE file to an ACE with ALPHA "Mountains1.ACE" overwriting the old one.Also save the image as "Mountains1.TGA" this will be the image you use in the modelling program.Then go into your 3D modelling program and create a panel for the image....(do not make it over 500meters long and 300meters high)...or it will disappear in the sim.
You can make it smaller if the area you want to fill in your route is not as big as this...(a 500m x 300m panel is what you see in the above images I did and it covers a large area, best suited for mountain ranges). Make the panel .5 meters thick (this is to hide the fact thats its not a real object from the eyes). You can experiment with more thickness to see what happens with it disappearing in the distance.Then add your image "Mountains1.TGA" to the modelling program.Select the entire model or use a fill tool and paint just a transparent color from your image onto the entire panel.
(This will make the panel disappear in the modelling program...so remember where it is so you can do the next step).Now reselect the image only the part you want to show on this panel...and use the paint brush tool (may be different on some 3D programs) to paint it onto both long sides of the panel.You should now see the mountains or buildings with the transparent parts displayed in the modelling program.You can adjust the panel to conform to your image so that it looks proportional height - width. (You don't want squashed mountains or buildings that look funky).Now Export the panel to MSTS "S" format (this proceedure is different in each modelling program). Call it "Mountains1.S"So far you should have in your "Backgrounds" directory the following files.....Your photo image(s) (mountain/building/whatever)
Mountains1.ACE
Mountains1.BMP
Mountains1.TGA
Mountains1.S
and
the model name you have saved the panel under..."Anything.3DC"
(for 3D Canvas users)Now go to the shapes folder for the route your planning to put the panel into and find a small SD file that one of the other shapes is using. Copy this to your backgrounds directory.Rename the SD file to "Mountains1.SD" and edit it with WORDPAD to change the SHAPE line to Shape ( Mountains1.S ) and save it
(Do Not Use "SAVE AS" because it will screw it up.)Now you have the necessary files ready to go into your route....
Place the S & SD files into the routes "SHAPE" directory.
Place the ACE file into the routes "TEXTURE" directory.Go to the routes main directory and find the routes REF file....
in "Tutorial Route" the name is "Tutorial Route.REF"....
Edit this file with WORDPAD and add a line to the bottom of the file after the ) that is on a line by itself...so your info should be on the next line after this ")".
(use the copy and paste method to find a part of the REF file that suits your needs ((it will say something like MISC_OBJECT in its line and copy it to the end of the REF file)) then rename the parts of the line necessary to point to your S file.)
Tutorials on editing the REF file are on www.train-sim.com.Then save the REF file (Do Not Use "SAVE AS" because it will screw it up.) and remember to back up your REF file before doing anything to it...for safety.Then use the Route Editor and select the Mountains1.S from the Misc_Objects section...and place it where you need it in the route....Save the Route and your ready to see it in MSTS.
This is really easier than it looks by this tutorial.....Hope this explains it ....let me know if there are any problems.Controll Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
blvdbill (70 posts)
Feb-20-02, 09:48 PM (EST) 19. "RE: Creating Backdrops for routes" WoW Controll, This is a great concept. Question; would it be possible for you to make just blank panels of various sizes for us "3d modeling impaired folks" and upload them in the file library? Then we could just do that re-painting thing! Blvdbill Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
controll (391 posts)
Feb-20-02, 04:38 PM (EST) 18. "RE: Creating Backdrops for routes" See below Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
highball5 (109 posts)
Feb-22-02, 02:56 AM (EST) 21. "RE: Creating Backdrops for routes" Not sure of all the potential here yet, but this technique does seem to have a lot! Here's a first time attempt at the downtown Omaha skyline. Sure is a lot easier than trying to represent the area a building at a time. A lot of square miles covered with a single object. Now to figure out if the perspective is right when approaching from different directions. Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

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