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"Whatever you do, DON'T make one of these......it's the PITs!!"

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sundevil_1997 (100 posts)
Feb-10-02, 02:07 AM (EST) "Whatever you do, DON'T make one of these......it's the PITs!!" Rrrgg....took far too long, and ended up somehow messing up my track database (won't load now). It's all textures. the worst part is, this is supposed to be one of two open pit mines...and this is the SMALL one! By the way..are there any open top hoppers anywhere? Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
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Subject Author Message Date ID RE: Whatever you do, DON'T make one... CPR_Malice_96th Feb-10-02 1 RE: Whatever you do, DON'T make one... sniper297 Feb-10-02 3 RE: Whatever you do, DON'T make one... sundevil_1997 Feb-10-02 4 RE: Whatever you do, DON'T make one... sundevil_1997 Feb-11-02 17 RE: Whatever you do, DON'T make one... oboe Feb-10-02 2 RE: Whatever you do, DON'T make one... sundevil_1997 Feb-10-02 5 RE: Whatever you do, DON'T make one... oboe Feb-10-02 6 RE: Whatever you do, DON'T make one... rgarber Feb-10-02 7 RE: Whatever you do, DON'T make one... sundevil_1997 Feb-10-02 8 RE: Whatever you do, DON'T make one... oboe Feb-10-02 9 RE: Whatever you do, DON'T make one... riograndedude Feb-10-02 10 RE: Whatever you do, DON'T make one... sundevil_1997 Feb-10-02 11 RE: Whatever you do, DON'T make one... sundevil_1997 Feb-10-02 12 RE: Whatever you do, DON'T make one... wbgx Feb-11-02 13 RE: Whatever you do, DON'T make one... gxm149 Feb-11-02 14 RE: Whatever you do, DON'T make one... sundevil_1997 Feb-11-02 15 RE: Whatever you do, DON'T make one... LawrenceKellie Feb-11-02 21 RE: Whatever you do, DON'T make one... Nalle13 Feb-11-02 22 RE: Whatever you do, DON'T make one... LawrenceKellie Feb-11-02 23 RE: Whatever you do, DON'T make one... Nalle13 Feb-11-02 24 RE: Whatever you do, DON'T make one... LawrenceKellie Feb-11-02 25 RE: Whatever you do, DON'T make one... Nalle13 Feb-12-02 26 RE: Whatever you do, DON'T make one... LawrenceKellie Feb-12-02 27 RE: Whatever you do, DON'T make one... Nalle13 Feb-12-02 29 RE: Whatever you do, DON'T make one... gxm149 Feb-12-02 28 RE: Whatever you do, DON'T make one... sundevil_1997 Feb-11-02 16 RE: Whatever you do, DON'T make one... oboe Feb-11-02 18 RE: Whatever you do, DON'T make one... sundevil_1997 Feb-11-02 19 RE: Whatever you do, DON'T make one... LawrenceKellie Feb-11-02 20

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CPR_Malice_96th (558 posts)
Feb-10-02, 08:06 AM (EST) 1. "RE: Whatever you do, DON'T make one of these......it's the PITs!!" It doesn't look bad to me. I know its not close top what you were trying to achieve, BUT still looks goodTim Kent

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sniper297 (1566 posts)
Feb-10-02, 09:45 AM (EST) 3. "RE: Whatever you do, DON'T make one of these......it's the PITs!!" Plenty of open top hoppers in the file library, I think they're mostly coal, but the empty ones wouldn't look out of place in an open pit mine or quarry. I notice you have the typical steep road spiral going down into the pit, did you create that with road sections? That sometimes causes a problem, if you save before deleting a road piece an RDB file is generated in the root folder. They don't make this obvious, when something is wrong with the ROAD database it generates a TRACK database error, even if there's absolutely nothing wrong with the track database itself. Doing the advanced rebuild for the TRACK database also rebuilds the ROAD database. That won't necessarily cure anything by itself, if you use a road section as a terrain tool and the road database file is created, deleting the road section and leaving no road sections at all on the route generates errors, because you now have a road database file with no roads in it, and all the error messages point to "track" instead of "road"! The solution is fairly easy, delete the rdb file, and rebuild the track (also the road altho it don't mention it!) database. If you do have roads it will generate a new rdb file with the roads in the correct locations (assuming there's nothing wrong with the \world\*.w files it takes that info from), if you don't have roads there won't be an rdb file. Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
sundevil_1997 (100 posts)
Feb-10-02, 10:11 AM (EST) 4. "RE: Whatever you do, DON'T make one of these......it's the PITs!!" No, no roads at all. It's 18 different textures. In fact, that's when things went bad is when I inserted all of those textures, I got the infamous "black screen". Interestingly, even though it said it couldn't find the database, the activity to take those pictures still loaded. I haven't tried again yet today. If I ever feel like starting RE up again, I"ll jot down what the error messages are. Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
sundevil_1997 (100 posts)
Feb-11-02, 04:12 PM (EST) 17. "RE: Whatever you do, DON'T make one of these......it's the PITs!!" Thanks sniper...that fixed the problem. Must have been a bad road db file, though I don't even HAVE any roads yet. *groan* Oh yeah...roads. Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
oboe (47 posts)
Feb-10-02, 09:44 AM (EST) 2. "RE: Whatever you do, DON'T make one of these......it's the PITs!!" Did you use Dynamic track when you put the rails in ??oboe Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
sundevil_1997 (100 posts)
Feb-10-02, 10:13 AM (EST) 5. "RE: Whatever you do, DON'T make one of these......it's the PITs!!" There is one piece of dynamic track there, as it's a wye between the two pits. You're seeing the west pit, and the other one is east of it. The wye runs along them both to the north. I've saved and exited before, so I don't think it's the dynamic track...it just all went bad when I tried to add all the textures at the same time. I'd heard about memory problems (I've got 256) but never experienced them. I guess those textures put it over the edge. Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
oboe (47 posts)
Feb-10-02, 10:50 AM (EST) 6. "RE: Whatever you do, DON'T make one of these......it's the PITs!!" You are probably right about the memory, and there are many in the forum that say they don't have problems with dynamic track, but I had so much trouble that I spent a whole month making test routes to find out out why I was having problems with dyna-tracks.One of the things that I found was that I could put in dynamic tracks in two wyes far removed from each other and it would work fine, but if I put in a third dyna-track anywhere else after creating the wyes, every dynamic object between the wyes would be trashed, and It was hard to enter the world tiles where the wyes were located without being sent to MSTS valhalla. The third piece would have no problems, but eliminating it with wordpad would end the problems in the other parts of the route where dynamic tracks were used in any type of a loop back.I am now using a combo of Alt7, A1t10 straights, and 5 degree curves in place of dyna tracks, and with over 600 miles of tracks, many 3 and 4 point wyes, loops etc., I have NEVER crashed once. Try removing the latest piece of dynatrack that you put in. Use wordpad to make sure that it has been removed in the world tile file, and the other files that referenced it. I'm not saying that this will solve your problem, but it sure solved mine, and it would be a shame to throw away such a beautiful piece of work if the real problem is just a piece of track.My new formula --- zero dynamic tracks = zero problems( I feel a controversy (sp) coming ) :poboe Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
rgarber (1202 posts)
Feb-10-02, 12:50 PM (EST) 7. "RE: Whatever you do, DON'T make one of these......it's the PITs!!" Oboe,I try to limit dynamic track too but for other reasons. What is so weird is people having different varying effects from one machine to the other with MSTS. Whether its front-coupling, dynamic track, roads.. just about everything... everybody seems to have differing problems. But I've used a number of dynamic track pieces from tiny to pretty large without any effects that I know of.I think the trick to successful placement of tracks, roads and objects is to constantly thinking that the next placement will be your last. I think the RE then feels pity for you and leaves you alone.Just my opinion though. Rich Garber Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
sundevil_1997 (100 posts)
Feb-10-02, 03:39 PM (EST) 8. "RE: Whatever you do, DON'T make one of these......it's the PITs!!" Well, I don't think it's the dynamic track (don't they ALL say that??). I use some pieces here or there, but this was the first time I've had a track database problem. And it happened just as I was importing those 18 textures for the mine. So I think the memory finally had enough, I got the black screen, and then something screwed up. I hadn't laid track in some time, so this was new after having just imported textures and changed land form. I tried rebuilding the track database, and it opened up in the editor...but when loading the activity, it again said it could'nt load the database...but the activity STILL loaded! I'll track it down (Hehehe..track it down...just kidding) later, and I've not given up on the pit mine. It just took a HORRIBLY long time to do. I think I may shrink it's proposed cousin to the east, though. Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
oboe (47 posts)
Feb-10-02, 04:25 PM (EST) 9. "RE: Whatever you do, DON'T make one of these......it's the PITs!!" My next computer will be built with a neck piece... so I can wring it from time to time. I still think it's the Dyna-track, but Rich may be right. It could be that certain systems react differently to dyna-track.I put well over 450 RR cars in a yard area, and I can't even begin to think how many textures were included in that mess. All it did was slow down my frame rate to a slide show. I had tried it with over 600 cars & locos, but it was too large to load into memory, and I'm using 512 megs. I bet it won't be long before you have more memory. oboe Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
riograndedude (181 posts)
Feb-10-02, 05:16 PM (EST) 10. "RE: Whatever you do, DON'T make one of these......it's the PITs!!" Where is that pit suposted to be, Hayden, Morenci, Green Valley, Ajo, or Bisbee?

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sundevil_1997 (100 posts)
Feb-10-02, 09:21 PM (EST) 11. "RE: Whatever you do, DON'T make one of these......it's the PITs!!" Wow! I'm honored you would even compare it to any actual existing open pit...I guess that means there's SOME ability to recognize it as such. Definitely no prototype, it only exists in my fantasy land. But I did see the open pit mine at Bisbee, and was quite impressed. One things for sure, this is SMALL for such a mine. Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
sundevil_1997 (100 posts)
Feb-10-02, 09:22 PM (EST) 12. "RE: Whatever you do, DON'T make one of these......it's the PITs!!" I"m interested in any non-dynamic wye's, just for the easy of building. Do you have a shot of such, or an ingredient list? Does it include the y-switch, because I was told to stay away from those, too. Hehehe...everyone has their list of cursed world objects.... Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
wbgx (142 posts)
Feb-11-02, 02:52 AM (EST) 13. "RE: Whatever you do, DON'T make one of these......it's the PITs!!" Hey SunDevil, Im nearly finished on a P&H 2300 electric shovel if you can use the model in your route. Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
gxm149 (79 posts)
Feb-11-02, 09:11 AM (EST) 14. "RE: Whatever you do, DON'T make one of these......it's the PITs!!" The problem is that Train Simulator is running out of memory when you are running the route editor. I had a similar problem when I did the texturing for my extended NEC route I am doing. What you have to do is after every three or four textures save the route, exit out of the route editor. Give it a few seconds for everything to unload from your memory, then go in, ad a few more textures, save and exit. And keep doing this till you are done. Adding textures in the route editor seems to eat up the memory. So save often and keep backups. This is what I have found anyway. I hope that this helps and solves the problems you are having. That pit quarry looks awesome Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
sundevil_1997 (100 posts)
Feb-11-02, 11:23 AM (EST) 15. "RE: Whatever you do, DON'T make one of these......it's the PITs!!" Ya, I'm sure that's what it was. The problems started right when I tried to Insert 9 textures into my texture window. Poof, it all went black, and the textures turned funny colors. I exited and coming back in started getting those database errors. I haven't returned to the route since then, just cause I was so burned out on it. But I'll head back probably tonight and see what damage is done.With your technique, how much memory do you have? I have (only!!) 256meg, and it's sure easy to buy more. I think doubling that would probably be helpful.I'm thinking of making the textures more standard so I don't need completely seperate pieces for each spot...instead I can tile them for the larger pit. I'll probably then upload the textures to the library so others can make/modify their own. Now all I need is some open hoppers full of copper ore. thanks for the help. Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
LawrenceKellie (1287 posts)
Feb-11-02, 06:11 PM (EST) 21. "RE: Whatever you do, DON'T make one of these......it's the PITs!!" LAST EDITED ON Feb-11-02 AT 06:24 PM (EST)At the risk of sounding like a broken record, the chances are overwhelming that 256MB RAM is the problem. It has nothing to do with the Y track or the dynamic track. It has nothing to do with 450 trains that someone put one a route and then it slowed the frame rates (which, by the way, you cannot compare how MSTS runs in Sim mode v. Route Editor mode). I know of only one person who has successfully created routes with 256 or less--by successfully, I mean without the problems you see written about in this forum and in the Train Simulator forum. I keep talking about this, people keep pooh-poohing. I'm supposed to say in a kinder and gentler way this point, but the point remains, 256 MB RAM is not enough--for the average route developer. I'll keep saying this, people will keep getting mad because I say it, but that doesn't alter the facts: 256 MB RAM is not enough.I have a document (over 300 pages) written by a senior computer programmer for Microsoft. This person ran some tests (as he had the equipment to do it) of MSTS and presented the results. He also never had any crashing trouble with MSTS--and he had it at least 6 months before it was released. At last writing, he had created over 200 routes with it. Never a problem, and he did NOT have only 256 MB RAM.Again, as I keep saying, when I upgraded from 128 to 768 there was a marked difference in the Route Editor.So, you will keep having problems, you will keep writing for answers, you will keep on getting everyone's supposition as to what the problem is, and I'll keep on writing to get more RAM. I'll also keep saying that until you do, you will keep on having problems, you will keep on writing for answers,.....
Lawrence
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Nalle13 (198 posts)
Feb-11-02, 06:31 PM (EST) 22. "RE: Whatever you do, DON'T make one of these......it's the PITs!!" Hey Lawrence, can't let you go completely without opposition here .
I've been hacking away with my route for some 5 months now and I've had one total crash that required me to go to a backup. I believe it was related to dynamic track (putting them end to end) Made the TDB go bananas. Other than that RE has worked fine for me (using the "standard" precautions of course). I can usually work for a couple of hours before it dumps me out.I run Win2000 with 256 MB RAM! But I'm positive that anything less than that will be asking for trouble.
So you people with 256 MB, don't despair. If you have less, get some more. Nalle Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
LawrenceKellie (1287 posts)
Feb-11-02, 07:56 PM (EST) 23. "RE: Whatever you do, DON'T make one of these......it's the PITs!!" As you can see if you look at the list of messages, I have apologized for my weakness in supposing that there is anything to do with RAM and the Route Editor functioning properly. Of course, since you have stated that it works, then we, without a doubt, know that it will work for everyone in the world--regardless of operating system, brand of processer, brand of motherboard, type of RAM, speed of RAM, or any other factor. After all, since it works for you, it certainly will work for all.However, I personally wanted to apologize for my not understanding the issues at hand--and that is that of course since it works for Nalle, it must work for all others. I humbly bow to your superiority and computer savvy.Lawrence
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Nalle13 (198 posts)
Feb-11-02, 08:52 PM (EST) 24. "RE: Whatever you do, DON'T make one of these......it's the PITs!!" What's the reason for this sarcasm???
I've never said that what works for me works for the world...
If anyone here is saying categorically what works and what doesn't it's you!>>256 MB RAM is not enough--for the average route developer.
What is an "average route developer" anyway?>>that doesn't alter the facts: 256 MB RAM is not enough.
Are you sure you're not getting worked up by your own posts??>>regardless of operating system, brand of processer, brand of motherboard, type of RAM, speed of RAM...
I haven't seen you make any reference to the above either, yet you make much more definite statements about what will or will not work for everyone...I did not mention the specs of my system because that was not the issue here, just the amount of RAM. I did mention my OS because Win2k is supposed to handle memory better than Win9x/MeI don't know if you got pissed on by your dog or something, since you obviously felt the need for this unfounded attack...perhaps you can't stand anyone taking a different view than yourself ? I'm not without a sense of humour and I can take a joke, but this wasn't very funny. This kind of thing does nothing but adds to the bad atmosphere that has been here lately. I was kinda hoping we'd had enough of this for a while....
If you're looking to pick a fight, do it somewhere else...not here. Nalle Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
LawrenceKellie (1287 posts)
Feb-11-02, 09:03 PM (EST) 25. "RE: Whatever you do, DON'T make one of these......it's the PITs!!" LAST EDITED ON Feb-11-02 AT 09:07 PM (EST)Not looking for a fight.No, I am sure that you have the superior wisdom in this point, so I am bowing to that superiority.Again, please forgive my lowly expressing of what is clearly inadequate knowledge.You are clearly a man (or woman? can't figure out the gender of "Nalle," of course that again could be my lack of infinite knowledge that you have) who has the knowledge and understanding in this. After all, it was you who so clearly and succinctly stated that 256 was enough!.
Lawrence
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Nalle13 (198 posts)
Feb-12-02, 02:00 AM (EST) 26. "RE: Whatever you do, DON'T make one of these......it's the PITs!!" Still don't see why this sarcasm should be necessary.
But I suppose you're an obnoxious jerk who's so full of yourself that you can't even read straight...
I stated that 256 was enough for me, and I said it so that someone else with a "measly" 256 MB won't think that it's completely hopeless to even consider doing anything in RE...I suppose I must have angered his majesty by having the nerve to question a statement from King Kellie.
If I have done anything to justify this attitude you have let me know. Since you know everyting else I suppose you know how to contact me in private. No reason to drag this board into the muck as you're trying to do.... Nalle Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
LawrenceKellie (1287 posts)
Feb-12-02, 08:05 AM (EST) 27. "RE: Whatever you do, DON'T make one of these......it's the PITs!!" Believe me, if I need to know *anything*, I will be sure to contact you first. After all, you have the answers to all the world's ilks..
Lawrence
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Nalle13 (198 posts)
Feb-12-02, 09:40 AM (EST) 29. "RE: Whatever you do, DON'T make one of these......it's the PITs!!" What is your problem ??? Seems like you're stuck in a loop, you sure don't read my words anyway....
If you have an issue with me about something I'd like to know about it, otherwise why don't you just drop this attitude.
You seem to think you own this board and anyone who disagrees the slightest from your divine opinion is fair game....
I'm actually surprised you haven't gone after my english yet since that seems to be another of your favourite "sports" and, since it's neither my first language nor a subject I have a PhD in, you should have no difficuly finding something to complain about Nalle Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
gxm149 (79 posts)
Feb-12-02, 09:31 AM (EST) 28. "RE: Whatever you do, DON'T make one of these......it's the PITs!!" LAST EDITED ON Feb-12-02 AT 09:39 AM (EST)As far as my system I am using. I have a 1.2 ghz AMD Thunderbird processor on my motherboard and I am using 256 MB of memory. So as far as memory goes I have the same as you. This isn't a problem for me as long as I save often and make frequent backups like I described above. Textures, editing terrain and dynamic objects such as car spawners, interactive objects like the diesel pumps in my yard area, signals etc. seem to eat up memory in the route editor. So especially save often when using these type of things in the editor. There also seems to be a limit to how many objects you can have on a tile. It is a fairly large number, but it is something you want to keep in mind when designing your pit area. I doubt you will hit it but keep it in mind. The area of the NEC I am working on is very urban with lots of buildings and I seem to have hit that limit on one tile when I tried to add street lights to all of my roads. So for the sake of consistency there won't be street lights on my roads, at least not for right now anyway. I will have to figure out why it isn't working later since right now I am getting the first release ready for upload in a little bit once I have some people test it out for me So it should get uploaded early next week if the testing goes well. When you try to fix your route, make sure you check rebuild track database under the advanced tab when you select the route to edit in the route editor. The rebuild track database option can repair track database errors alot of the time. It doesn't work all the time however, but it just might be able to fix your route and save you alot of time and hassle rebuilding it. It's worth a try anyway and if the route's not working anyway you have nothing to lose right. Hopefully that will help and allow you to salvage your route. Keep us posted on your progress. That open pit quarry looks really cool and I look forward to seeing more of it and what you can do. Good luck with your route Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
sundevil_1997 (100 posts)
Feb-11-02, 03:49 PM (EST) 16. "RE: Whatever you do, DON'T make one of these......it's the PITs!!" Well that depends....how long is the extension cord on that thing? I have no idea what that is, but if it's a very large digging type vehicle, then ya, bring it on! I'll give it a home. Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
oboe (47 posts)
Feb-11-02, 04:39 PM (EST) 18. "RE: Whatever you do, DON'T make one of these......it's the PITs!!" If I could figure out how to post a screen shot, I would show you a diagram... I use the a1t7 & 10 straights in combination with a 5 degree curve just before you link the two tracks. The short straights go on each side of the curve in whatever combo is needed to match them up with the track that you're trying to hook up with. The first couple took a long time to do, but once I got the hang of it, it wasn't too bad.I've never used a Wye piece, for the same reason that you stated, but I can't see how they could cause a problem because they aren't dynamic pieces. It sounds like the rdb. was your problem though, and deleting a dyna-track can cause more trouble than it's worth.oboe

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sundevil_1997 (100 posts)
Feb-11-02, 05:04 PM (EST) 19. "RE: Whatever you do, DON'T make one of these......it's the PITs!!" Here's quick and dirty on how to post a screen shot of the RE.while in RE, hit the "printscreen" button on your computer. Then go to paintbrush, and hit Edit->Paste. You should see your entire screen in there. Select the box-type tool and select just the RE portion of your screen and hit Edit->Copy. Then go File->New and paste again. Now you will have a picture of just your RE. Save it as a .bmp Now, if you have Paintshop pro, it'd be better to use that than paintbrush, because in PSP you can save it as .jpg and that greatly reduces the size of the file. There's a 100k image limit for uploading. If you don't have psp, then you'll just have to keep croppping the image until the .bmp file is < 100k.Then, at train-sim, when you go to post a message, there will be a line in red above "Your message" that says to Upload images, click here. (NOTE: MANY times I have noticed that line does not appear when I am starting a message. IF that happens, I go back to the forum and try Reply again...usually then the line shows up). It will produce another browser window, where you select .bmp (or .jpg if you used PSP), and then browse to find the file on your computer. Once you upload it, it will return a long URL location for the file you just uploaded. Just take your curser,highlight the entire address, and hit CTRL-C (to copy)...go back to your message text, and hit CTRL-V to paste it in (as is, don't change it). Hit Preview and you should see it. Good luck! (if I can do it, YOU can) Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
LawrenceKellie (1287 posts)
Feb-11-02, 05:58 PM (EST) 20. "RE: Whatever you do, DON'T make one of these......it's the PITs!!" If you do a search using "wye" as your search term, and do check Archive, you will find a post by Sniper about a non-dynamic track wye..
Lawrence
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