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"Tentative solution to the lo_tiles problem!"

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sammy1 (12 posts)
Dec-10-01, 04:07 PM (EST) "Tentative solution to the lo_tiles problem!" All mountain route designers...If this has already been done please don't snicker - I can't find any reference to this problem being solved, so...I've found a workaround to get the Load Mountain Quadtree tool to function in the Route Creation Editor, create lo_tiles automatically, and use DEMs to load those tiles with data. It all hinges on the \TD directory.It needs further testing but after trying on two routes, one existing and one created for the test, both created LO_TILES data successfully.I'll post the how-to info later today after I get back to the PC that has the game installed.Post should be up by 7PM PST today.Sammy Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
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Subject Author Message Date ID RE: Tentative solution to the lo_ti... kxs156 Dec-10-01 1 RE: Tentative solution to the lo_ti... sammy1 Dec-10-01 2 RE: Tentative solution to the lo_ti... kxs156 Dec-10-01 3 RE: Tentative solution to the lo_ti... JohnCS Dec-10-01 4 RE: Tentative solution to the lo_ti... sammy1 Dec-10-01 5 RE: Tentative solution to the lo_ti... JohnCS Dec-10-01 6 RE: Tentative solution to the lo_ti... sammy1 Dec-11-01 7 RE: Tentative solution to the lo_ti... kxs156 Dec-11-01 8 RE: Tentative solution to the lo_ti... JohnCS Dec-11-01 9 RE: Tentative solution to the lo_ti... kxs156 Dec-12-01 10

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kxs156 (25 posts)
Dec-10-01, 04:31 PM (EST) 1. "RE: Tentative solution to the lo_tiles problem!" That sounds great! Please report back how it goes. I tried doing something with lo_tiles previously (basically copying my regular tiles into the lo_tiles directory.. surprise it did nothing How does it look in the sim with Distant Mountains turned on? Big difference ala Marias Pass?ks Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
sammy1 (12 posts)
Dec-10-01, 04:51 PM (EST) 2. "RE: Tentative solution to the lo_tiles problem!" I didn't have time to fully test this yet, but with the SoCal route I tested with I did see peaks that didn't show in the past (beyond the limits of my existing tiles)However believe the primary use of this is to REDUCE the number of normal tiles required to show an area down to the minimum of those only around the tracks, using the lo-tiles to show background lo-res data, which would improve system performance.Looking at the default USA2 quad tree, it often shows only two tile wide around the tracks, with the distant mountains (lo-tiles) showing the rest of the data.My test Santa Ana Canyon (BNSF San Berdoo Sub) looks good, tho! Will post some pics tonight.Sammy Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
kxs156 (25 posts)
Dec-10-01, 05:12 PM (EST) 3. "RE: Tentative solution to the lo_tiles problem!" I am wondering if there's a way to see beyond the "max visibilty" setting in TS though... because of the mountainous terrain I am creating I have places where line of sight in real life stretches across several tiles. But in TS line of sight is limited and terrain further away is hidden by the far-away fog. I was hoping distant mountains would let you add something beyond that but it doesn't seem possible. ?ks Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
JohnCS (203 posts)
Dec-10-01, 07:12 PM (EST) 4. "RE: Tentative solution to the lo_tiles problem!" Sammy:I look forward to hearing of your results. Although the RGE will create lo_tiles using the process you describe, I've not had luck populating them with DEM data that will display in-sim. Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
sammy1 (12 posts)
Dec-10-01, 09:42 PM (EST) 5. "RE: Tentative solution to the lo_tiles problem!" Ok - here's the post with the details. Screen shots to come later - football, beer and pizza first, not necessarily in that order...I have found a work around that enables the mountain quad tree feature in the RGC Editor. This allows creation of a mountain quad tree, and the editor then creates the appropriate tiles in the \LO-TILES directory. I have tested this on a couple of routes, one existing and one created for the purpose of testing only, and it seems to work, but others should try it to confirm this.TESTING is needed on this - please feel free to try it and let everyone know if it works for you (or if not - that's just as important).Abbreviations used:
RGC = MSTS Route Geography Creator tool
RE = MSTS Route Editor tool
DEMEX = JohnCS's excellent DEM XYZ file to Tile generator. None of our new routes would have been feasible without it.In an nutshell:The \TD directory seems to contain two files for non-mountain routes and four files for mountain routes. One missing file apparently can be copied from an existing route, the other from the current route, and the editor then re-creates these files correctly upon your first save in the RGC. From the file names these files contain some kind of database of the tiles for the route, and are only created or updated when you save from the RGC.By copying the -00025+00028.tdl file and the lo_td_idx.dat files it enables the RGC's Load Mountain Terrain Quad Tree button. Then the RGC is used to re-create the proper mountain quad tree data and then create the tiles. Once you have the LO-TILES created you can use the DEMEX tool to load terrain data.Use the USA2 RGC data as a guide for what to create around your existing quad tree.The Details: (I shouldn't have to say this, but ... PLEASE BACKUP YOUR ROUTE FIRST!)Also - this process is not all that difficult, but is not recommended for MSTS newbies. You should be confident in the processes for creating route tiles using the RGC and importing DEM data using DEMEX. Professional drivers on closed course only.
If this is a new route, open the RGC tool, create your route, create a simple quad tree, add tiles, minimize and generate, then save as normal. This creates the base data required.
If you are modifying an existing route then the previous step is not necessary.
Exit the Editor completely.
Find the \TD directory of your desired route in Explorer
Copy the route's existing td_idx.dat to lo_td_idx.dat in the \TD directory
Copy the file -00025+00028.tdl from the \USA2\TD directory to your route's \TD directory
Rename the copied file to the numeric equivalent of the existing .td file in that directory (mine was -00026+00027.tdl)
Open the RGC tool
Select your route
Zoom Region once but do not zoom in further yet
The Load Mountain Quad Tree icon is now available - click it.
See if some other tiles show as populated (mine were showing populated off the coast of San Francisco)
Zoom in (not zoom region) and select those areas by dragging a box around the entire selected area (select top left to bottom right as usual)
Right-click and toggle populated once or twice to depopulate those tiles
Minimize the quad tree.
Save.
Zoom as desired to your route's location
Drag a box around the area of your route that you have DEM data for.
Add all selection tiles, minimize when you're happy with it, and generate.
Save.
Look in the \LO-TILES and you should find your new tiles.
Now for the fun part - use MICRODEM and DEMEX (Beta 0.6 or later) to load these tiles with terrain data.
Load the RE and review your handiwork.
Unknowns:
The use of the Mountains ( 00000000 ) entry in the route's .TRK file.Comments are always welcome, constructive or otherwise. JohnCS - thanks for your quick input. Hope this opens up alternative scenic possibilities...Sammy Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
JohnCS (203 posts)
Dec-10-01, 11:45 PM (EST) 6. "RE: Tentative solution to the lo_tiles problem!" Sorry but you'll have to show me:1: RGE creates 64x64 pt lo_tiles, not 256x256 like demex tries to edit.2: you say 'view in RE' - lo_tiles don't display in the route editor. Check Marias pass. Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
sammy1 (12 posts)
Dec-11-01, 01:04 AM (EST) 7. "RE: Tentative solution to the lo_tiles problem!" Yep - JohnCS seems to be correct here folks. A good thing I called it tentative. I tried a few more tests and found a couple of things... First - this process does indeed create lo-tiles. It's just that we don't yet have the tools to load data to them. I tried the obvious test on a blank route - load up the lo-tile DEM data first without loading the normal tiles. Found they don't show up. So - we have apparently valid creation of invisible tiles. Hmmm.As for my test on my existing route - I was seeing background data from the existing normal tiles and hoping it was distant? I guess. It was late. Still looks good - just uses normal tiles instead of lo-res distant tiles.So is it possible to go further with this, JohnCS? If this process is creating valid lo-resolution tiles, can the existing tools be updated to write to this alternative tile format?As always, your insight is invaluable. Thank you for participating.Sammy Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
kxs156 (25 posts)
Dec-11-01, 11:09 AM (EST) 8. "RE: Tentative solution to the lo_tiles problem!" I can definitely see a difference in my terrain simply by setting the mountains parameter in the TRK file to 0000001 and enabling Distant Mountains in TS. The effect is one of what looks like better smoothing in the far distance. But it doesn't add any further detail or speed up things. I think as you've suggested that lo_tiles is simply a way of lowering the resolution of terrain that is in the medium to far visible range. The settings above basically turn the lo_tiles on or off. So it's a performance enhancement technique; not something that will give you detail beyond the current max.ks
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JohnCS (203 posts)
Dec-11-01, 09:32 PM (EST) 9. "RE: Tentative solution to the lo_tiles problem!" An internal version of DEM-EX from late July wrote to lo_tiles. They still don't show, and since you can't view them in the RE debugging them gets a bit more complicated. I still think its attainable and will try to look into the subject again.And no, dist_mounts are not just a performance improvement - they do show further away. Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
kxs156 (25 posts)
Dec-12-01, 00:01 AM (EST) 10. "RE: Tentative solution to the lo_tiles problem!"
>And no, dist_mounts are not just
>a performance improvement - they
>do show further away. Ohh! thats what I would love them to do... so do I understand correctly then that the lo_tiles data shows up beyond the 2000 visibility limit in TS? Because thats where my mountains currently stop.. ks
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