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landnrailroader (65 posts)
Dec-08-01, 10:30 AM (EST) "Problems - New MicroDem & Demex" I downloaded the new version of MicroDem last night and ran it on 27 30x30 DEMS, using the default MSTS set, and a setting of 6 for the number of datapoints to search. I also changed the max. segments to 750,000 just to make sure there were enough points made. The program took about 10 minutes to run, (1G, 512M Athlon processor), and the extraction to an XYZ file was quite fast, maybe 30 seconds. However, I noted that in the XYZ creation, there is no longer a "feet" choice for Z values, so I took the default decimeter setting. So Far so good, except that I noted that the size of the created XYZ file was only about 1/3 as large as the one created sometime earlier, without filling holes.Demex refused to run on this new file. I specified decimeters as the data type, and selected a raw file. This was not a new route, but one that did not have track in it yet, and I have noted that, in the past, DEMEX could be run as many times as desired on a route.Am I missing something here?J. H. Sullivan, P.E. (retired) Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
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Subject Author Message Date ID RE: Problems - New MicroDem & Demex wbgx Dec-08-01 1 RE: Problems - New MicroDem & Demex LawrenceKellie Dec-08-01 5 RE: Problems - New MicroDem & Demex wbgx Dec-08-01 6 RE: Problems - New MicroDem & Demex wbgx Dec-08-01 7 RE: Problems - New MicroDem & Demex LawrenceKellie Dec-08-01 9 RE: Problems - New MicroDem & Demex wbgx Dec-08-01 11 RE: Problems - New MicroDem & Demex landnrailroader Dec-08-01 2 RE: Problems - New MicroDem & Demex LawrenceKellie Dec-08-01 3 RE: Problems - New MicroDem & Demex LawrenceKellie Dec-08-01 4 RE: Problems - New MicroDem & Demex Hawk Dec-08-01 8 RE: Problems - New MicroDem & Demex JimStrenk Dec-08-01 10 RE: Problems - New MicroDem & Demex landnrailroader Dec-08-01 12

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wbgx (9 posts)
Dec-08-01, 01:42 PM (EST) 1. "RE: Problems - New MicroDem & Demex" I don't have an answer, but I have had problems with the new MircoDem program and DEM-EX (Maybe just the DEM-EX program). When I attempt to merge Dems across a UTM line it appears to work fine in the MircoDem program (load merged DEM, all looks good)and after the XYZ conversion I encounter error messages during the DEM-EX operation. Error states 'Invalid XYZ data format or order'.
If anyone has a solution to this I would certainly appreciate the hint.Boomer Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
LawrenceKellie (862 posts)
Dec-08-01, 05:14 PM (EST) 5. "RE: Problems - New MicroDem & Demex" This has been commented on time and time and time and time and time again. You cannot cross UTM Boundaries!!! DEM-EX will not correctly process the information. There are procedures that MUST be followed to cross the UTM boundaries.If you continue to try to cross the boundaries with DEM-EX, you will continue to fail.Lawrence Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
wbgx (9 posts)
Dec-08-01, 06:22 PM (EST) 6. "RE: Problems - New MicroDem & Demex" Thanks for your input. but I really wasn't looking for someone to tell me that I had failed. I know that you take a lot of pride in helping offering help when people ask.Boomer Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
wbgx (9 posts)
Dec-08-01, 06:49 PM (EST) 7. "RE: Problems - New MicroDem & Demex" Ok, I looked at the instructions at http://sd40.topcities.com/ for DEMing across UTM boundaries. You have given me fair warning about crossing UTM boundaries and having less than desired results without following the instructions.I don't know if you live in the Monroe, Washington area Lawrence, but if so, there's a good chance you could throw a rock hit me.Boomer Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
LawrenceKellie (862 posts)
Dec-08-01, 07:36 PM (EST) 9. "RE: Problems - New MicroDem & Demex" Nope. Live in Kenmore (north end of Lake Washington). But, if I could, I probably would live in Monroe. Nice place. Lawrence Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
wbgx (9 posts)
Dec-08-01, 08:28 PM (EST) 11. "RE: Problems - New MicroDem & Demex" Hey neighbor... Iam in Bothell, near Waynes Golf courseBoomer Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
landnrailroader (65 posts)
Dec-08-01, 03:02 PM (EST) 2. "RE: Problems - New MicroDem & Demex" Well, I discovered my own answer, but I will have to say, that the new version of DEMEX DOES NOT SOLVE THE DITCH problem, although we may be able to experiment and find out how to correct the problem.First of all, it is very hard to get the export file to be in anything other than Decimeters on the verticle axis. Secondly, I found that DEMEX behaves differently with this new data, probably because there are no zero elevation records, at least at the front of the file. DEMEX sat and appeared to do nothing for about 3 minutes, then it took off and did it's thing.Problem is this:
There are still East-West slots or gaps in the data which occur on the Blue Ridge Sub. at a critical spot, namely, just south (railroadwise) of Blue Ridge Tunnel. There is then, a deep slot cutting across all 4 levels of the Clinchfield Loops at this location. I ran the MicroDem program several times, with setting of 2, 4, and 6, for the range to sample, and did not notice any difference. It is possible that I need to sample a greater range, but it would be nice, if there was a way to estimate the width of the slot in data points. It appears to be 1 small section of a tile in width.Main difference, is that before, this slot went all the way to sealevel while now it only drops to 470 meters.J. H. Sullivan, P.E. Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
LawrenceKellie (862 posts)
Dec-08-01, 05:07 PM (EST) 3. "RE: Problems - New MicroDem & Demex" If you cross a UTM boundary, where will be problems. That has been stated time and again, and the problem resides in DEM-EX's ability, lack of ability, to move across UTM boundaries.Now, I have no idea if the trough that you observed was from the UTM boundary or not. I do know, and I tested it before was ever released, as Dr. Guth and I were working to get this to meet the needs of MSTS community, that using the MSTS option WITHOUT changing a thing! you do NOT get the troughs/seams. I have merged with the latest version and with an earlier version. The troughs/seams were gone in the new version.New procedures are being written. Without them, your results will not come out as expected.Lawrence Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
LawrenceKellie (862 posts)
Dec-08-01, 05:12 PM (EST) 4. "RE: Problems - New MicroDem & Demex" >and a setting of 6
>for the number of datapoints
>to search. I also
>changed the max. segments to
>750,000 just to make sure
>there were enough points made. What setting of 6? I am running it right now to try to figure out what you did. And what segments to 750,000? Neither of those questions are asked in the merge or export functions. The only extra piece of information that you are asked is during the export to XYZ. You are asked what Z format to use. Choose decimeter.Otherwise everything else is totally automatic.Again, procedures are being written for this. No where have I ever said to get it or go ahead and use it. Dr. Guth and I worked on making this as simple as possible, but you can still screw up.Lawrence Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
Hawk (242 posts)
Dec-08-01, 06:56 PM (EST) 8. "RE: Problems - New MicroDem & Demex" Gentlemen---
Let's give Lawrence a chance to hash out the differences, straighten out the tattered seems, batton down the hatches, swab the decks.
This is new. Like the settlers going west, it's new terratory.
Give the change a chance to grow. Be Patient. I'm sure it will answer all your questions, in time.
Just a thought.
Hawk
"And it comes to be, that the soothing light at the end of your tunnel, is just a freight train coming your way."
Metallica Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
JimStrenk (128 posts)
Dec-08-01, 07:51 PM (EST) 10. "RE: Problems - New MicroDem & Demex" It would appear that the Import/Export options were being fooled around with. Maximum gap fill and DXF values were changed.>>and a setting of 6
>>for the number of datapoints
>>to search. I also
>>changed the max. segments to
>>750,000 just to make sure
>>there were enough points made.
>
>What setting of 6? I
>am running it right now
>to try to figure out
>what you did. And
>what segments to 750,000?
>Neither of those questions are
>asked in the merge or
>export functions. The
>only extra piece of information
>that you are asked is
>during the export to XYZ.
> You are asked what
>Z format to use.
>Choose decimeter.
>
>Otherwise everything else is totally automatic.
>
>
>Again, procedures are being written for
>this. No where have
>I ever said to get
>it or go ahead and
>use it. Dr. Guth
>and I worked on making
>this as simple as possible,
>but you can still screw
>up.
>
>Lawrence
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landnrailroader (65 posts)
Dec-08-01, 10:00 PM (EST) 12. "RE: Problems - New MicroDem & Demex" Thanks to all of you for your answers. There is no UTM boundary involved in this situation. The Entire Clinchfield railroad, which runs generally north & south, is in the same UTM zone.Lawrence, I await your instructions, but I have studied this thing a bit.The "ditches" in my dataset range from 2 small tile sections to 3 small tile sections in width. MicroDem gives you the ability to set the range, you wish to sample, but it is given in datapoints. I assume, that for a 30M DEM, these would be at 30 meter intervals.Now check my arithmetic, and perhaps you can add some variation of this to your instructions.The tiles in MSTS, i.e. the blue boundaries, at 2km apart, as I recall. Further, each tile is broken in 16x16, i.e. 256 small sections. If so, then each small section would be 125 meters square, which amounts to 4.166 datapoints, if my assumption is correct. Therefore, to correctly sample data you would need to set the sample range at 8, and possibly as much as 12 depending you what you believe the slot widths to be. I ran the program with a setting of 2, the default, and had the slots, so I ran it again at a setting of 4, and the result, at the same location, was the same. Things improved in some areas, but not the main one with a setting of 6. I haven't tried 8 yet, and await your instructions.J. H. Sullivan, P.E.
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