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LawrenceKellie (881 posts)
Dec-05-01, 08:33 AM (EST) "Importing DEM data just got EASIER!" It is with incredible excitement that I get to make this announcement. (This information has been purposely posted in two forums at Train-Sim, so that the largest number of people can learn of the change.)DEM manipulation and consequently importation into MSTS has just become infinitely more easy. Therefore, having that realistic-looking terrain just became more of a possibility for the user who, as one person stated, doesn’t have a Ph.D.Dr. Peter Guth, associate professor of geology at the U.S. Naval Academy, has modified his existing program MicroDem to allow the MSTS community to easily manipulate DEM data. This was done of his own volition, freely providing a tool to the MSTS community.Dr. Guth is a West Point graduate teaching as a civilian at the Naval Academy. He obtained his B.S. from the U.S. Military Academy (1975); major/concentration: none; graduated fourth in class of 862; and his Ph.D. in 1980 from Massachusetts Institute of Technology; Major: Geology; Thesis: Geology of the Sheep Range, Clark County, Nevada. He is also a Fannie and John Hertz Fellow. For the past ten years, he has been teaching at the U.S. Naval Academy. He has written an incredible number of publications, which are listed at http://www.nadn.navy.mil/Users/oceano/pguth/website/pl01001.htm. If you notice, he co-wrote the article “Merging 10 & 30m DEMs,” which has been referred to in past posts and is found at http://www.3dartist.com/3dao/r/allenbil/md/md4art.htm#merge.Dr. Guth is also the developer of the program MicroDem, which is a microcomputer terrain mapping and visualization program. There are many of us in the Route forum who has used it to one degree or another, and there are current procedures for importing DEM data into our routes that automatically use MicroDem. MicroDem was started in 1984, and has had numerous updatings/revisions. The latest revision/updating has been specifically for the MSTS community.Simply, what this means is this: The use of the MSTS configuration of MicroDem has made the process of manipulating DEM data incredible simple and fast. In essence, it has taken the place of XYZMerge and Seam Eliminator.The cracks (seams or holes) that you get when merging two or more DEM has been resolved, or enhanced, with this new version of MicroDem. This means that the program Seam Eliminator has been eliminated.MicroDem will merge in incredible number of DEM files AND export it to ASCII XYZ in UTM format for use in DEM-EX. The speed with which this is accomplished is astounding.I merged/filled twenty (yes, twenty) 10m x 10m (those are the large ones, 2 MB zipped each) DEMs in, are you sitting down?, one minute! And that is with my 667 mHz, 768 RAM. The equivalent with XYZMerge, I am certain, was at least 10 times longer, if not 20--in other words, 20 minutes. The merge portion is equivalent to XYZMerge manipulating MicroDem--the part where you can’t touch a thing. The same number of 30m x 30m was done so fast, I almost couldn't write down the start time: 10 seconds.Creating the ASCII XYZ UTM file (the second part of XYZMerge) with MicroDem, took only 2 1/2 minutes, for the merged 10m x 10m DEM. Again, I am certain that it was at least 10 times longer with XYZMerge. Those twenty DEM merged into an XYZ file of 756 MB! Which was the same size that XYZMerge produced, therefore, all data was converted. The speed was not obtained by sacrificing resolution.Therefore, the entire process from DEM to ASCII XYZ for twenty 10m x 10m DEM was 3 1/2 minutes--at least 10 times faster then current procedures. It also appears that the number of DEM you can merge is unlimited. During the twenty-file merge, MicroDem just "sighed" and asked me if there was any more to eat! Further, MicroDEM is capable of merging and converting DTED data (for those outside the U.S.) into useable DEM data. This opens Canadian routes right now, and it will open other country routes, hopefully, in the near future. The limiting part of the DEM importing into MSTS process is DEM-EX.This new version of MicroDem does not make the DEM Guide written by Rich Garber (found at http://www.edmfamily.com/msts/demtut.htm) obsolete. He and I are working closely, and Rich will be updating the Guide and announcing when the updated version, with the new information, is available for download. Let me repeat that, this does NOT make the DEM Guide of Rich Garber’s obsolete. Dr. Guth has also pointed me to resources (free) that show the railroad routes that are based on year 2000 data! This data can be imported into MicroDem as an overlay. This is more accurate, as far as I have been able to find out, than what we currently have.The conclusion to this is that over the next several days, I will be writing procedures, which I will first submit to Rich for his revision of the DEM Guide, on how to use MicroDem more fully. Again, this does not make the DEM Guide obsolete, for the real information of the DEM Guide is the packaging of the entire DEM terrain modeling into a system that is both easy and fast AND can be used on one tile only with no damage to other tiles. This information is exclusive to the DEM Guide. XYZMerge and Seam Eliminator, which have both been replaced with this new version of MicroDem, were both public, and operational procedures were also public. This is just replacing that public information.The written procedures will be uploaded to and stored at http://sd40.topcities.com. My initial goal is to have this ready in a very short time--now, you realize that “short time” is a relative term. In geological thinking, “short time” could mean 100,000 years! In computer thinking, “short time” means 0.000001 second. I will keep you informed in the Route forum.Lawrence
http://sd40.topcities.com
Great things on the horizon!
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Table of Contents

Subject Author Message Date ID RE: Importing DEM data just got EAS... DKlemm Dec-05-01 1 RE: Importing DEM data just got EAS... charlie Dec-05-01 2 RE: Importing DEM data just got EAS... LawrenceKellie Dec-05-01 3 RE: Importing DEM data just got EAS... wbgx Dec-05-01 4 RE: Importing DEM data just got EAS... LawrenceKellie Dec-05-01 6 RE: Importing DEM data just got EAS... wbgx Dec-05-01 9 RE: Importing DEM data just got EAS... LawrenceKellie Dec-05-01 13 RE: Importing DEM data just got EAS... trueman Dec-05-01 5 RE: Importing DEM data just got EAS... LawrenceKellie Dec-05-01 7 RE: Importing DEM data just got EAS... rgarber Dec-05-01 10 RE: Importing DEM data just got EAS... LawrenceKellie Dec-05-01 15 RE: Importing DEM data just got EAS... JohnCS Dec-05-01 16 RE: Importing DEM data just got EAS... LawrenceKellie Dec-05-01 17 RE: Importing DEM data just got EAS... NickF Dec-06-01 18 RE: Importing DEM data just got EAS... davidbeach Dec-06-01 20 RE: Importing DEM data just got EAS... lirc201 Dec-05-01 8 RE: Importing DEM data just got EAS... wbgx Dec-05-01 11 RE: Importing DEM data just got EAS... Hawk Dec-05-01 12 RE: Importing DEM data just got EAS... LawrenceKellie Dec-05-01 14 RE: Importing DEM data just got EAS... bobs Dec-06-01 19 RE: Importing DEM data just got EAS... GandyDancer Dec-07-01 21 RE: Importing DEM data just got EAS... LawrenceKellie Dec-07-01 22 RE: Importing DEM data just got EAS... GandyDancer Dec-07-01 23 RE: Importing DEM data just got EAS... LawrenceKellie Dec-07-01 24 RE: Importing DEM data just got EAS... JohnCS Dec-07-01 25 RE: Importing DEM data just got EAS... GandyDancer Dec-07-01 26 RE: Importing DEM data just got EAS... MRRextreme Dec-07-01 27 RE: Importing DEM data just got EAS... JohnCS Dec-07-01 28 RE: Importing DEM data just got EAS... wbgx Dec-09-01 29 RE: Importing DEM data just got EAS... LawrenceKellie Dec-09-01 30 RE: Importing DEM data just got EAS... wbgx Dec-09-01 31 RE: Importing DEM data just got EAS... davidbeach Dec-09-01 32 RE: Importing DEM data just got EAS... LawrenceKellie Dec-09-01 33 RE: Importing DEM data just got EAS... GandyDancer Dec-09-01 34 RE: Importing DEM data just got EAS... LawrenceKellie Dec-09-01 35 RE: Importing DEM data just got EAS... GandyDancer Dec-09-01 36 RE: Importing DEM data just got EAS... rgarber Dec-10-01 37 RE: Importing DEM data just got EAS... GandyDancer Dec-10-01 38 RE: Importing DEM data just got EAS... lirc201 Dec-10-01 39 RE: Importing DEM data just got EAS... rgarber Dec-10-01 40

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DKlemm (795 posts)
Dec-05-01, 09:28 AM (EST) 1. "RE: Importing DEM data just got EASIER!" LAST EDITED ON Dec-05-01 AT 09:29 AM (EST)Lawrence;Great news!!!! And I assume I thank you for getting with the author of Microdem to help us out in the MSTS community. Thanks! Now what will I do with all my extra time? : )Oh, and is the new Microdem available for download yet?David Klemm
Illinois Central Route
Illinois and St Louis Divisions
Ver 0.6 uploaded
Working on Decatur IL
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charlie (1 posts)
Dec-05-01, 09:38 AM (EST) 2. "RE: Importing DEM data just got EASIER!" LAST EDITED ON Dec-05-01 AT 10:15 AM (EST)How does this new version differ from MicroDEM-TBII, ver 5.1?
With this particular version, dated 10/29/01, I have never
had to use XYZ Merge or Seam Eliminator.regards,
Charliep.s. I noticed that the 10/29/01 executable was 5.1 beta;
the 12/05/01 file is "Last revision 12/03/2001".
C.
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LawrenceKellie (881 posts)
Dec-05-01, 10:59 AM (EST) 3. "RE: Importing DEM data just got EASIER!" Yes, if you download the current full version of MicroDem, it is set up for MSTS, if you choose the MSTS option. More instructions will follow.Lawrence Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
wbgx (16 posts)
Dec-05-01, 02:04 PM (EST) 4. "RE: Importing DEM data just got EASIER!" If I regenerate my data will I notice a big improvement over the past program(s) performance, ie, seamfil wasn't quite able to interpolate the seam data with much accuracy ( no offense to the author of seamfil, I have rough terrain features at the seam line).Modeling the UP from Wammsutter, WY to Grainer Jct, WY. ...Boomer Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
LawrenceKellie (881 posts)
Dec-05-01, 03:21 PM (EST) 6. "RE: Importing DEM data just got EASIER!" I have not done a comparative study of the two approaches. I do know that the author of Seam Fill did a great work on making this happen. His process manipulated the MSTS tiles themselves. The new process will be manipulating the DEM data *before* it is applied to the tiles. Which is better? I have no idea. I do know that Dr. Guth has incredible knowledge in DEMs and incredible knowledge in programming. I have to trust that his process is a very good one. But compare the two? Nope. Since they approach the problem from two radically different directions, it wouldn't be fair to either one to try to make a comparison.Do you have the DEM Guide that Rich Garber produced? In it, you can learn how to apply DEM data to only one tile--or two, three, etc. If not, I would obtain it.If it was me, I would take a screen shot of the area after you have used Seam Fill on it, which I believe is your current landscape, make a backup copy of the tile files, run this new process that will be coming out soon, and apply the resultant DEM to those tiles in question. Then go in, take a screen shot from the very same lat/long/compass direction, and compare the two. If you like the old way better, restore the tiles from backup. If not, then keep the tiles from the new process.Lawrence Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
wbgx (16 posts)
Dec-05-01, 03:57 PM (EST) 9. "RE: Importing DEM data just got EASIER!" Good idea... Again I wish to express my gratitude to the 'pioneers' that have made improvements/additions to the game. I hope you can have the download available soon.Thanks,
Boomer Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
LawrenceKellie (881 posts)
Dec-05-01, 04:56 PM (EST) 13. "RE: Importing DEM data just got EASIER!" That's my plan. I have spent parts of today at work thinking of all the information that needs to be provided, then writing down that topic. It's an interesting exercise.Lawrence Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
trueman (30 posts)
Dec-05-01, 02:17 PM (EST) 5. "RE: Importing DEM data just got EASIER!" Lawrence;Thank you for that post! The work that you and Rich Garber have been doing has really made a significant contribution to the MSTS community. Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
LawrenceKellie (881 posts)
Dec-05-01, 03:26 PM (EST) 7. "RE: Importing DEM data just got EASIER!" Thank you, Trueman, for your support. This work that Rich and I are doing is only building on the work of some great pioneers in MSTS. (Who would have thought that doing something only 6-8 months ago would relegate you to the status of "pioneer" )The main problem is that their work is being buried in the Archives, yes it can be found, but it takes a little more effort. I would like http://sd40.topcities.com to be a repository of such information. Also, by getting this information in some easy-to-use, easy-to-follow, tangible form, the likelihood increases that we will have more routes created and made available throughout the MSTS community. And with realistic terrain, whether you build prototypical or fictional, it will make the simulation all the more real.Lawrence
http://sd40.topcities.com
Great things on the horizon! Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
rgarber (749 posts)
Dec-05-01, 04:15 PM (EST) 10. "RE: Importing DEM data just got EASIER!" Folks, Lawrence is being too modest here. I've been here as long as Lawrence and am very aware of the works of the others who initiated the DEM sequence of events. And for those efforts I am grateful. But I don't know what happened to them and Lawrence is still here refining the process to an art. It was Lawrence who approached Dr. Guth to start with and let me tell you I am surprised at what is happening. We all should give both Dr. Guth and Lawrence, a 'big teddy bear of a hug' for their efforts and trust me, Lawrence isn't divulging everything! I'm still trying to digest what Lawrence sent me in a couple of emails the other night, but let me tell you there is some great stuff coming! This process will become to us 'DEM converts' what Mike Vone's Route Building guide is to new MSTS users trying to build a route! And Lawrence's own contributions should never be understated. He truly does earn the title as 'pioneer.'We should knight ole Lawrence:'Sir Lawrence of DEM'or...'There be Mountains here! Kellie'Cornation at 6, party at 7 down at East Metro Square (just to the left of the railroad tracks; dress formally)... Rich Garber Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
LawrenceKellie (881 posts)
Dec-05-01, 05:17 PM (EST) 15. "RE: Importing DEM data just got EASIER!" Please don't. I don't deserve anything. Dr. Guth did all the work, now people can take it from there.Lawrence Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
JohnCS (196 posts)
Dec-05-01, 11:39 PM (EST) 16. "RE: Importing DEM data just got EASIER!" I don't get a hug?
<grin> Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
LawrenceKellie (881 posts)
Dec-05-01, 11:58 PM (EST) 17. "RE: Importing DEM data just got EASIER!" Whereas I didn't explicitly use the term "hug," I believe it was implied in my comment about "building on the work of some great pioneers in MSTS."However, since the readers of this thread appear to want to figure things out on their own, so be it. Lawrence Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
NickF (497 posts)
Dec-06-01, 00:17 AM (EST) 18. "RE: Importing DEM data just got EASIER!" John, you can have one from me. Thanks to your original work I've been busily pounding down track in southern Colorado for almost 6 months! Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
davidbeach (76 posts)
Dec-06-01, 03:37 PM (EST) 20. "RE: Importing DEM data just got EASIER!" >
>or...
>
>'There be Mountains here! Kellie'
>
Now, if only we could also say "There be Mountains way over yonder!"Anybody have any ideas yet on LO_Tiles? I say one message go by a while back where somebody may have figured out how to turn them on, but so far I haven't seen anything about how to create them in the first place, to have something to turn on.I'm sure that there will be major kudos to the person who first makes LO-Tiles work.David Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
lirc201 (28 posts)
Dec-05-01, 03:49 PM (EST) 8. "RE: Importing DEM data just got EASIER!" I found the microdem download. Here is the direct link:
http://www.usna.edu/Users/oceano/pguth/microdem/win32/microdem_setup.exeorhttp://www.usna.edu/Users/oceano/pguth/website/microdem.htm
Click on "Download" then click on "check the date of the current version before downloading, use this link"Once you install the new version, start microdem and select "Help"->"Contents". In the "Search" tab enter msts and hit return.A special thanks to the developer of microdem.
I hope this helps
Brian LaVelle Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
wbgx (16 posts)
Dec-05-01, 04:25 PM (EST) 11. "RE: Importing DEM data just got EASIER!" I downloaded the program and my initial reaction is WOW!! Boomer Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
Hawk (243 posts)
Dec-05-01, 04:52 PM (EST) 12. "RE: Importing DEM data just got EASIER!" LAST EDITED ON Dec-05-01 AT 05:00 PM (EST)I'm downloading the new version as I type. I noticed the file size is 21.5MB. If I'm not mistaken, the version I have (Microdem/TerraBase II 5.03 "v5 12.62.2.1") was about a 30MB download.
I guess my first question would be:
Does it update the older version, or should the older version be uninstalled first?
I think I'll wait to install it until the "GURU's" (Lawrence and Rich, that's ya'll) test drive it.
And to think, I'm stuck on Dial-Up (49333bps, supposedly). I've got about 1 hour left of dl'ding.
Sheesh!!!!
Hawk
Another quick question; Do we still need DemEx? Not trying to rush ya'll. He! He!
"And it comes to be, that the soothing light at the end of your tunnel, is just a freight train coming your way."
Metallica Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
LawrenceKellie (881 posts)
Dec-05-01, 04:59 PM (EST) 14. "RE: Importing DEM data just got EASIER!" LAST EDITED ON Dec-05-01 AT 05:15 PM (EST)I knew the direct link a long time ago. There is more going on than just getting the program and installing it. Since you can clearly deal with the topic, thank you for making my life so much easier.Good luck, enjoy.Lawrence Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
bobs (258 posts)
Dec-06-01, 01:32 AM (EST) 19. "RE: Importing DEM data just got EASIER!" One of the things I've found most fascinating about the whole MSTS "thing" since it came out is how different folks have taken on different aspects of the overall mess and done such good work. I've done work on Marias Pass, Paul Doty is building on it. The various physics updates from Soctt Borchardt, Joseph Realmuto, and Peter Baker, the lighting fixes from Rob Easterday and Steve Alexander, the signal work by Conn McCarthy and Hank Sundmeyer, the various tutorials, and on and on.I've stayed away from the DEM stuff on purpose, knowing some day I'd have to figure it out, but it looks like by waiting long enough, another aspect of this thing is going to be figure out and made simple. Kudos to all of you! Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
GandyDancer (38 posts)
Dec-07-01, 03:52 PM (EST) 21. "RE: Importing DEM data just got EASIER!" >It is with incredible excitement that
>DEM manipulation and consequently importation into
>MSTS has just become infinitely
>more easy. >
>Lawrence
>http://sd40.topcities.com
>Great things on the horizon!
>
Lawerence;
This is great news, but I have a question based on what I have observed ( Correctly, or not) when using MicroDem and DemEX. I have two DEM files 1X1 degree DEM that cross a UTM zone 119->120 degrees and 120->121 degrees for Latitide 37 to 38 degree Longitude,I can merge these DEM's with the present MIcroDEM and everthing goes well until I use DemEX. The problem appears to resolve around how i choose which tiles get populated at 120 degrees Longitude. If I depopulate the tiles at 120 degrees DemEX works and I obtain a seam. (This is what I expected) This also tells me that the problem is with DemEx. Are you saying that the problem has been with MicroDem?Sam Schulenburg
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LawrenceKellie (881 posts)
Dec-07-01, 05:13 PM (EST) 22. "RE: Importing DEM data just got EASIER!" The problem is with the data AND with MicroDEM AND with DEM-EX. You cannot cross UTM boundaries and get results that you want. There are special procedures that must be followed. Go to http://sd40.topcities.com and read the article that is linked to this paragraph "Instructions for Cross UTM Boundaries"The instructions are NOT "nice," and they must be followed exactly. I have not tried them, as I have not needed to.In order for DEM-EX to work correctly, you have to follow the above procedures.Lawrence Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
GandyDancer (38 posts)
Dec-07-01, 08:52 PM (EST) 23. "RE: Importing DEM data just got EASIER!" >The problem is with the data
>AND with MicroDEM AND with
>DEM-EX.
>Lawrence Thanks for the quick response. I was just hoping that the problem was with MicroDEM and the latest version would correct it.
Sam Schulenburg
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LawrenceKellie (881 posts)
Dec-07-01, 09:22 PM (EST) 24. "RE: Importing DEM data just got EASIER!" The problem, as I understand it, is virtually unfixable--it involves the very nature of UTM "numbering." As I understand it, within a UTM zone, numbering starts at one side with 0 and goes to the other side. Something like this, the numbers will be in the form of UTM:n:10:0 10:1 10:2 10:3 10:4, etc.When you cross to the next zone, the second part of the numbers start over at 0, therefore, crossing a border would look like this:9:12 9:13 9:14 10:0 10:1, etc.Again, from my limited understanding, DEM-EX sees that "0" and goes nuts! And as I stated, I don't think there is a fix.However, you never know what the future will bring.Lawrence Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
JohnCS (196 posts)
Dec-07-01, 09:42 PM (EST) 25. "RE: Importing DEM data just got EASIER!" The UTM boundary issue was an unfortunate side effect of the initial decision to use UTM coordinates. UTM was choosen because its a nice orthogonal matrix where a meter is a meter, which seemed like a good idea till it was learned MSTS isn't orthogonal. It was too heavilly entrenched in the code by then, and since my routes didn't cross a UTM boundry the problem didn't really surface till late.If Microdem included the UTM zone in the XYZ data stream it would be an easy fix, but alas....However as Lawrence says, you never know..... Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
GandyDancer (38 posts)
Dec-07-01, 09:56 PM (EST) 26. "RE: Importing DEM data just got EASIER!" >The UTM boundary issue was an
>unfortunate side effect of the
>initial decision to use UTM
>coordinates..
> It was too heavilly
>entrenched in the code by
>then, and since my routes
>didn't cross a UTM boundry
>the problem didn't really surface
>till late.
>
>
>However as Lawrence says, you never
>know..... As an old programmer, I fully understand boundry problems. I have created many of these same problems over the years. But thats why we make the big bucks. Someone has to fix it. The problem comes along when you crate a program and give it away free. Even if it solves 99% of the problem the damn boundry issue on 1% of the route will be what your rememberd for. I hate to remind you that as a programmer your never admit to making a mistake, Lawerence gave you the perfect excuse by blaming all the software (Microdem,GeoExtractor,Dem-Ex)Sam "I have a real weard sense of hummor" Schulenburg
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MRRextreme (158 posts)
Dec-07-01, 09:57 PM (EST) 27. "RE: Importing DEM data just got EASIER!" LAST EDITED ON Dec-07-01 AT 09:57 PM (EST)If the MSTS tiles are not orthogonal, what are they? Don't just leave with the punch line. Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
JohnCS (196 posts)
Dec-07-01, 11:37 PM (EST) 28. "RE: Importing DEM data just got EASIER!" trapezoidal Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
wbgx (16 posts)
Dec-09-01, 01:41 PM (EST) 29. "RE: Importing DEM data just got EASIER!" Lawrence, if possible could you give us the URL or whatever for the free MicroDEM railroad overlay? I read in your post: "Dr. Guth has also pointed me to resources (free) that show the railroad routes that are based on year 2000 data! This data can be imported into MicroDem as an overlay. This is more accurate, as far as I have been able to find out, than what we currently have."This information would help me a great deal.Thanks,Boomer
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LawrenceKellie (881 posts)
Dec-09-01, 02:48 PM (EST) 30. "RE: Importing DEM data just got EASIER!" No I won't. Because at this time, there is no way to directly convert that to a product that does us any good. Also, last night I was working with some of that data and it still contains old, abandoned trackage. So, I do not see how it can provide any further assistance to us.Look in the file section for the file convert3.zip. It will help you more than the previous information.Lawrence Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
wbgx (16 posts)
Dec-09-01, 03:38 PM (EST) 31. "RE: Importing DEM data just got EASIER!" Ok... Thanks for the pointer.Boomer Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
davidbeach (76 posts)
Dec-09-01, 04:53 PM (EST) 32. "RE: Importing DEM data just got EASIER!" Lawrence,Abandoned track is not necessarily a bad thing. It may be the best data available for someone who is trying to recreate something that once was.David Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
LawrenceKellie (881 posts)
Dec-09-01, 05:25 PM (EST) 33. "RE: Importing DEM data just got EASIER!" You are correct. However, in the question that was not brought up or not. So, I read it as not a good thing. You read it as a good thing.Let me point out that the current source (convert3.zip) also has abandoned trackage in it. Therefore, at this time, convert3.zip appears to be our best source of existing and abandoned trackage.Lawrence Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
GandyDancer (38 posts)
Dec-09-01, 10:02 PM (EST) 34. "RE: Importing DEM data just got EASIER!" >No I won't. Because at
>this time, there is no
>way to directly convert that
>to a product that does
>us any good. Also,
>last night I was working
>with some of that data
>and it still contains old,
>abandoned trackage. So, I
>do not see how it
>can provide any further assistance
>to us.
>
>Look in the file section for
>the file convert3.zip. It
>will help you more than
>the previous information.
>>Lawrence
I am working on the Yosemite Valley Railroad that was abandoned in 1945. This data may be of gtreat help to me. Is their any way you could point me towards this data, or verify that the YVRR data is included in that data set. The YVRR ran from Merced calif to El portal, providing passinger service to Yosemite National Park before roads were built into the valley. As far as converting the data, I would like to give it a try.Sam Schulenburg
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LawrenceKellie (881 posts)
Dec-09-01, 10:09 PM (EST) 35. "RE: Importing DEM data just got EASIER!" Sam, at the point of sounding brusque, I have already answered that question. Get the file convert3.zip from the files section. That is the only other I know of that has trackage, present and some abandoned. If you are lucky, the trackage that you need is there.Otherwise, I know of NO sources for historical routes, including the information that Dr. Guth pointed me to. It was not historical information, it was current.Lawrence Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
GandyDancer (38 posts)
Dec-09-01, 11:47 PM (EST) 36. "RE: Importing DEM data just got EASIER!" >Sam, at the point of sounding
>brusque, I have already answered
>that question. Get the
>file convert3.zip from the files
>section. That is the
>only other I know of
>that has trackage, present and
>some abandoned. If you
>are lucky, the trackage that
>you need is there.
>
>Lawrence
My misunderstanding I had allready checked out Convert3.zip and it does not have YVRR in it's database. I was under the impresion that Dr. Guth's data was also archival. What I really need is a copy of 1945 USGS data.Sam Schulenburg
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rgarber (749 posts)
Dec-10-01, 00:49 AM (EST) 37. "RE: Importing DEM data just got EASIER!" Sam,If you ever find old data like that... I mean in any shape, size or form, post a holler on the forum. This is an issue that really hasn't been talked about a lot. Like how if we want to do an old route, or we gonna get 'anything' like in the way of track plans.Rich Garber Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
GandyDancer (38 posts)
Dec-10-01, 01:11 AM (EST) 38. "RE: Importing DEM data just got EASIER!" >Sam,
>
>If you ever find old data
>like that... I mean in
>any shape, size or form,
>post a holler on the
>forum. This is an issue
>that really hasn't been talked
>about a lot. Like how
>if we want to do
>an old route, or we
>gonna get 'anything' like in
>the way of track plans.
>
>
>Rich Garber Luckly I was able to meet Jack Bugess,who has produced an HO scale model of the YVRR. He has researched this Railroad for over 20 years, and has old records of the original route. It just would be nice to find an old goverment database of this kind of data. Presently I have all the DEM data transfered to MSTS, and have marker flags from Merced to McClure lake. I have layed track for about 15 of the 75 miles of the original route. Once I complete the route, I'll post this data.Of course, if I can locate any information on old routes,I'll post the results.Sam Schulenburg
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lirc201 (28 posts)
Dec-10-01, 09:26 AM (EST) 39. "RE: Importing DEM data just got EASIER!" The DRG (Digital Rasters) files on gisdatadepot (or topozone.com) could contain the information that you are looking for. Some of those maps were created in the 50-60's time frame and updated in the 80's. I have been using them to accurately place rail for my Louisville and Indiana Route. Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
rgarber (749 posts)
Dec-10-01, 10:04 AM (EST) 40. "RE: Importing DEM data just got EASIER!" That's something I thought of two. For the bigger routes I wouldn't think their trackage would change too much. But something smaller and even no longer in existence, that's what I'm wondering about.Rich Garber Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

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