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LawrenceKellie (896 posts)
Dec-04-01, 05:50 PM (EST) "_f tile format" LAST EDITED ON Dec-04-01 AT 06:31 PM (EST)Subject line is incorrect. Should be _y file format.Is there anyone here that knows the format of the _y.raw files? This is the file that contains the information for terrain modeling. I am needing to know the format and what happens, what is changed, when MSTS updates that file.So, if anyone knows, please contact me at lawrence at calacreek dot com. The sooner the better.Thanks.Lawrence
http://sd40.topcities.com
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Subject Author Message Date ID RE: _f tile format sniper297 Dec-04-01 1 RE: _f tile format LawrenceKellie Dec-04-01 2 RE: _f tile format Motley24Crue2 Dec-04-01 3 RE: _f tile format zorcan Dec-05-01 4 RE: _f tile format LawrenceKellie Dec-05-01 5 RE: _f tile format JohnCS Dec-05-01 6 RE: _f tile format LawrenceKellie Dec-05-01 7 RE: _f tile format zorcan Dec-06-01 8 RE: _f tile format LawrenceKellie Dec-06-01 9 RE: _f tile format zorcan Dec-06-01 10 RE: _f tile format LawrenceKellie Dec-06-01 11 RE: _f tile format zorcan Dec-07-01 12 RE: _f tile format rgarber Dec-07-01 13 RE: _f tile format zorcan Dec-07-01 14 RE: _f tile format rgarber Dec-07-01 15 RE: _f tile format LawrenceKellie Dec-07-01 16 RE: _f tile format dvdhoven Dec-08-01 17 RE: _f tile format LawrenceKellie Dec-08-01 18 RE: _f tile format zorcan Dec-10-01 19 RE: _f tile format LawrenceKellie Dec-10-01 20 RE: _f tile format zorcan Dec-10-01 21 RE: _f tile format rgarber Dec-10-01 22 RE: _f tile format zorcan Dec-10-01 23 RE: _f tile format LawrenceKellie Dec-10-01 25 RE: _f tile format LawrenceKellie Dec-10-01 24 RE: _f tile format zorcan Dec-10-01 26 RE: _f tile format rgarber Dec-10-01 27 RE: _f tile format LawrenceKellie Dec-11-01 28 RE: _f tile format LawrenceKellie Dec-11-01 29

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sniper297 (1019 posts)
Dec-04-01, 06:27 PM (EST) 1. "RE: _f tile format" I'm just speculating, but I believe terrain elevation data is in *Y.RAW, not *F.RAW. The reason for my reasoning on this is the fact that I had hills and valleys like crazy for a long time, and never had any *F.RAW files at all - until I started adding siding markers, which would lead me to believe that *F.RAW contains the siding and platform marker info, and probably other things I haven't added yet. Mine was extracted flat with all the terrain added manually, so the fact that you DEMmed yours might change this, again I'm only guessing. I've been adding signals to the PO&N and I noticed I have a new file in the root that wasn't there before, lo_td_idx.dat, but that might have been generated when I played with tile floor & scale or error bias, so that might be another thing to look into. The file name actually sounds like something to do with those "low resolution tiles" gizmos, but my \Lo_tiles directory is still empty, so I don't know about that either. Anybody ever figure out what the files in the \TD directory contain? Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
LawrenceKellie (896 posts)
Dec-04-01, 06:30 PM (EST) 2. "RE: _f tile format" You are correct. I got that information from the MS FAQ! It is the _y file that I need.Lawrence Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
Motley24Crue2 (176 posts)
Dec-04-01, 10:31 PM (EST) 3. "RE: _f tile format" im not 100% Sure, but i seem to thing the TD files have something to do with the Quad tree, only reason i say this is because if im working with new dem i tend to create a dummy route and Copy over the *td and *world folders into the dummy route, and there you go instant quad treeAs for Low_tiles, i emailed Microsoft with that Question and have yet to hear anything from them "As if they don't care"Bob Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
zorcan (90 posts)
Dec-05-01, 11:04 AM (EST) 4. "RE: _f tile format" Lawrence,Search the forum (including archives) for posts associated with Deanville and JohnCS. Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
LawrenceKellie (896 posts)
Dec-05-01, 11:40 AM (EST) 5. "RE: _f tile format" Beings as I am the "Search King," you could probably guess that I have done that. Not only that, but I was here when those people wrote about the _y file format, and I know it was not revealed.Lawrence Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
JohnCS (201 posts)
Dec-05-01, 11:48 PM (EST) 6. "RE: _f tile format" Sure it was. Tis in the 'glimmer of hope' thread. Its all there. Just a flat 256x256 array of intel format two byte words for each elevation point with a value of 0 at the floor and 65535 at the ceiling, scaled accordingly.The coordinate, tilename mapping, and .t formats are not provided quite so obviously however.Just be patient Lawrence, you'll get it. Soon as I have time. Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
LawrenceKellie (896 posts)
Dec-05-01, 11:55 PM (EST) 7. "RE: _f tile format" After I wrote the message, I did a search again, and found one thread where that information that you recited exists.Lawrence Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
zorcan (90 posts)
Dec-06-01, 03:51 AM (EST) 8. "RE: _f tile format" Lawrence, I found it all there - I'm sure you will too Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
LawrenceKellie (896 posts)
Dec-06-01, 08:06 AM (EST) 9. "RE: _f tile format" I have a question for you. What part of "After I wrote the message, I did a search again, and found one thread where that information that you recited exists." did you not understand? That is the entire message to which you responded.Sheesh.Lawrence Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
zorcan (90 posts)
Dec-06-01, 11:34 AM (EST) 10. "RE: _f tile format" LAST EDITED ON Dec-06-01 AT 11:37 AM (EST)Calm down Lawrence Your response to JohnCS states that you found one thread. If that's the case you are still missing relevant info. Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
LawrenceKellie (896 posts)
Dec-06-01, 11:50 AM (EST) 11. "RE: _f tile format" LAST EDITED ON Dec-06-01 AT 11:53 AM (EST)Go take a flying leap.Instead of being so smug, why not help?Lawrence Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
zorcan (90 posts)
Dec-07-01, 09:10 AM (EST) 12. "RE: _f tile format" What help could any mere mortal offer the "Search King" if he can't find it for himself.I have tried to help you, Lawrence - I shan't make that mistake again Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
rgarber (773 posts)
Dec-07-01, 09:14 AM (EST) 13. "RE: _f tile format" I disagree. You were playing around with LK, Zorcan. He made the effort to search the info himself and couldn't find it. Rather than give him the thread you're refering to, all you did was point out he didn't find it. Further, LK's reference to the 'Search King' was a parody on himself, not a self proclamation. You've done us a diservice because that information is inteneded to upgrade the DEM process to make it easier. Your not hurting LK by this I guarantee you, but you are hurting the rest of us who want to use DEM the easiest way possible. So let's stop kidding who, eh?Rich Garber Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
zorcan (90 posts)
Dec-07-01, 12:03 PM (EST) 14. "RE: _f tile format" Rich,In an earlier post in this thread I gave Lawrence the exact search criteria which I had previously used to find the relevant info on tile file formats.When Lawrence then posted that he had only found one thread, I posted what was meant as an encouragement - "don't give up - the posts are there (as I previously indicated)".I personally am too busy to want to waste time trying to upset or decry people. Can we now bring this to an end ? Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
rgarber (773 posts)
Dec-07-01, 03:10 PM (EST) 15. "RE: _f tile format" Zorcan,You say,"In an earlier post in this thread I gave Lawrence the exact search criteria" Okay, let's take a look at that. This is what you posted earlier, at least as it shows on my screen, maybe on yours it shows much more:'Search the forum (including archives) for posts associated with Deanville and JohnCS''Lawrence, I found it all there - I'm sure you will too'Now if you look at just JohnCS's number of posts, there's only 193 to find the one little thing you call 'responding exactly to', and I don't know how many for Deanville (the search hung), but if it's nearly the same, you're exact reference narrows the field down to just 400 posts. No offense, but that little bit of precision as a bit imprecise in my book. The gist is, if you got some information, why not just reveal it, and then maybe the rest of the community can benefit too.Then you say:"I personally am too busy to want to waste time trying to upset or decry people."Well excuse me for bothering you. But I do see at least 4 posts where you managed to make time. My opinion is those 4 posts and your time could have been used more constructively rather than ridicule and mock. Rich Garber Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
LawrenceKellie (896 posts)
Dec-07-01, 05:05 PM (EST) 16. "RE: _f tile format" Let me ask you a simple question.If I go out to an orchard and pick 10 bushels of apples, did I pick one bushel of apples?If I then say that I picked one bushel of apples, does that *necessarily* mean that I *only* (and that is the key word) picked one bushel of apples?John stated that sure it (information about the file format) was there. He then recited a particular thread, 'glimmer of hope,' that contained particular information. He followed that up by stating that the rest of the information, however, was not obvious.My response to his was: "After I wrote the message, I did a search again, and found one thread where that information that you recited exists." I did NOT say I found *only* one thread that contained any information about this topic. My response was directly related to John's comments of the one particular thread, which he said was the "glimmer of hope' thread. My response was regarding that, not regarding that I had found only one thread dealing with the subject.Now, I realize that you probably are not happy with me because I compared the TSTF process that you created with how I had terraformed tiles. I pointed out the incredible amount of time it would take to terraform according to your program compared to DEM-EX (see http://www.train-sim.com/dcforum/DCForumID6/2225.html). But, for the people who do not have DEM available, your process could very well be what is needed. I don't know. And that is fine. You are filling a need that has not been met. Then, I come along and state that we are working on a process that, hopefully in the end, allow people without DEM, but with DTED data, be able to terraform. So, you are quite unhappy with me and see a way to "get back."Further, what Rich said was true. I was paroding myself. Someone else gave me that title, I can't remember who, and it is not germain to the discussion. I was not bragging.But the point still remains that instead of assisting, you wasted my and a lot of other people's time over some prideful ego.So, I ask again, are you going to assist, or are you going to continue in your arrogant, rude, superior, smug manner?Lawrence Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
dvdhoven (245 posts)
Dec-08-01, 04:24 AM (EST) 17. "RE: _f tile format" LAST EDITED ON Dec-08-01 AT 04:25 AM (EST)Hi,I think you have found it by yourself, but the glimmer of hope thread is here:
http://www.train-sim.com/cgi/dcforum/dcboard.cgi?az=show_thread&om=263&forum=DCForumID6&archive=yesDick van den Hoven Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
LawrenceKellie (896 posts)
Dec-08-01, 05:26 PM (EST) 18. "RE: _f tile format" Thank you. Yes I did find it. Lawrence Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
zorcan (90 posts)
Dec-10-01, 04:17 AM (EST) 19. "RE: _f tile format" Lawrence,You want smug and unhelpful - I'll cite you a caseA few weeks back, you anounced that you had "the secret" to solving some of the less desirable features of using DEM-EX.When I asked you what that was, you declined to answer, in a manner which can only be described as smuggness personified.You knew that I was working on TSTF and that work was in part for the benefit of the community.It seems that it is in order for LK to be smug and prickly and to withold information (so that someone can make few bucks from it). When I posted the advice to search for Deanville and JohnCS to find what you wanted, that was ALL I could tell you at that point - I didn't and don't have those threads, just a load of notes that I'd taken from them - and those were not to hand.When you later said that you had found one thread, I guessed that was all you had found, so pointed out that there were others.In fairness, I can see that it is possible to interpret that post as being sarcastic. I promise you it WAS NOT meant to be anything other than helpful.I have to say that I am very hurt to be thought of as arrogant and rude - anyone who knows me will testify that I am far from that.I have also tried to help this community by sharing my work with it - and I'm taking that even further shortly. To accuse me of being unhelpful is not on. Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
LawrenceKellie (896 posts)
Dec-10-01, 08:13 AM (EST) 20. "RE: _f tile format" >Lawrence,
>
>You want smug and unhelpful -
>I'll cite you a case
>
>
>A few weeks back, you anounced
>that you had "the secret"
>to solving some of the
>less desirable features of using
>DEM-EX. Could you be so kind as to point me to the thread where I used the word "secret" in reference to DEM-EX? I just did a search, albeit limited to the last three months (since you said it was a few weeks back), using "secret lawrencekellie" as my search terms, and the only response I received was this thread, in which you are the first one to use the word "secret," and one other thread where the only use of "secret" was in reference to another thread that had that word in its title. Since I have no idea to what thread you are referring, I cannot provide any explanation.>It seems that it is in
>order for LK to be
>smug and prickly and to
>withold information (so that someone
>can make few bucks from
>it). If what you say is true, that I was smug and prickly, it was not so someone could make a buck. I have never made any money on any information that I am disseminating here. So to state otherwise is literal an untruth.>In fairness, I can see that
>it is possible to interpret
>that post as being sarcastic.
>I promise you it WAS
>NOT meant to be anything
>other than helpful. Explanation understood and accepted.Lawrence Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
zorcan (90 posts)
Dec-10-01, 09:02 AM (EST) 21. "RE: _f tile format" Lawrence,The thread was one I started, announcing TSTF II, one of your posts in it read:">Lawrence,
>
>You are certainly right in the
>steps required.
Thank you. It is always refreshing to know that I have read something correctly.
>1) You need to trace contours
>only for the portion of
>terrain visible from nearby the
>track - say a mile
>or so either side.
That is correct.
>2) In my experience, converting a
>map covering some 10 KM
>by 4 Km takes about
>4-5 hours all told.
Ten KM, and the width of 4 km is for tracking viewing terrain. Therefore, if I have 404 miles of track, which is what I currently have put down, that would mean I have 650.036 KM, at 4 hours per 10 KM (I chose your lower number on purpose), that would mean 65 units at 4 hours each, or 260 hours. Even at an intense 8 hours per day, that would mean 32.5 days.
With the DEM-EX method, it probably took me a total of 40 hours to model the terrain, let's even say 80 hours. In fact, according to your figures, the terrain I model would be 650 KM long by 4 KM wide, for a total of 2,600 square KM. The 40/80 hours I wrote of above modeled 6,400 square KM of terrain, over 2.46 times the land.
Therefore, using your figures, in order for me to model the entire 6,400 square KM, would require 80 days--those are 80 contigious days, not counting weekends. So in order to model the terrain in my 6,400 square KM, working 8 hours a day, five days a week--like a "job"--it would take 16 weeks, which is nearly 3 1/4 months.
So for me, the choice would be between 80 days (at 8 hrs/day) or 80 hours.
>3) When compared with the time
>you will spend wrestling with
>the route editor in order
>to lay your track, let
>alone the other objects required,
>this time pales into insignificance
>
Laying track and objects have nothing to do with terrain modeling. That comes later. That's throwing oranges in when we are talking apples.
>4) If you have ready made
>DEM data of sufficient quality
>then by all means use
>it - TSTF is provided
>for those of us who
>want something better than currently
>available.
This is the main strength that I see for TSTF. Those who do not have DEM data available to them, this is certainly a viable alternative.
However, if you have DEM data available, you can model any number of tiles--from 1 to however many your computer memory will allow--with one easy process. There is no need for the "total destruction" that is mentioned in conjunction with using DEM-EX. I routinely update one or two tiles, and I find them occasionally (I just found a couple the other day, but I didn't write down the coordinates), with the DEM-EX method with NO "total destruction" mentioned above. You just have to know the secret involved.
Thanks for the great clarification.
Lawrence "To which I responded:"Lawrence,
So what is the secret to using DEM-EX without suffering from the dreaded "trough" syndrome ? "Which elicited:"Now that is the question, isn't it? (laughing graphic here)
There are two types of troughs that can be created by DEM-EX: first, the unavoidable troughs between USGS Quads. This is, as I said, unavoidable. However, there is a nice little utility, Seam Eliminator, which can repair those troughs, though it must be used with caution.
The second trough is the one caused by DEM-EX overwriting already-modeled terrain. This is avoidable, it doesn't need to happen. And how to avoid that is The Secret.
The entire process of The Secret is being written into a PDF document which will be uploaded here in the file section. Currently, it is about half completed, and it is the combined work of 3-4 people who have been MSTS enthusiasts for some time.
Lawrence "Thus you were,in fact the first to refer to it as "the secret".Subsequently we learn that this info. is for sale (by A.N Other)Now that we have brought up the apples and oranges bit, you were, of course abolutely right in one sense, but wrong in another.The entire process of creating a route can be viewed as a single entity. It just so happens that we need to start with some form of terrain data then use a variety of tools and procedures to effect updating of the route tiles, then lay the track etc etc.If you study the latest TSTF release, you will see that it does (or at least attempts to ) ease the track laying process by actions you take when preparing the terrain (or DEM) data.Settled ? Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
rgarber (773 posts)
Dec-10-01, 10:41 AM (EST) 22. "RE: _f tile format" Zorcan,*RouteHelp1.pdf
*RouteHelp2.pdf
*ActivityHelp.pdf
*ActivityTutorial.pdf
*Number11 route
*East Metro route
*East Metro Deluxe route
*Realism Package by Rich Foley, installer and pdf by me
*Activity Developers Tool Kit for the Metro
*Retro Metro Add-on by John Chambers, installer and pdf, activities (Marv Keur) by myself*The first original DEM Tutorial by Kerr Pegg was put into PDF and uploaded by me.*And a bunch of those posts and you see listed by my name is helping people who don't understand aspects of MSTS. And the same goes for emails too. I get a fair share where I explain aspects of MSTS.*These are me free contributions. These are my contributions that collect a fee:
DEM Tutorial
Activity Tutorial published by AbacusThe point of this is to show the commitment level of service by myself to this train community. You'll note that there is not just a route which provides entertainment, but tutorials too. I hope this clearly demonstrates to you, that I'm more involved with this community, than just merely 'making a buck.'I do hope that in the future you turn your talents towards offering the same level of commitment, service, and constructive instruction as I have, in whatever form, to this community and this hobby.Rich Garber Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
zorcan (90 posts)
Dec-10-01, 11:10 AM (EST) 23. "RE: _f tile format" Rich,I have no problem whatsoever with anyone making a charge for their contribution, provided they have "earned the right" to do so. I have no issue with you in this respect.My reference to your charging for the info. on handling DEMs was in connection with what seems to me to be the application of a double standard - I am pilloried for not divulging information (which is already in the public domain) whilst my accusor(s) feel entitled to keep info privy to themselves (beacuse they plan to sell it).I was accused of hindering the community interest - the same charge could be levelled against LK when he declined to reveal "the secret" even though he well knew it might be germain to my work for the community.I do not need any "pep-talk" from you or anyone else about making a contribution to this community - if you have been following TSTF's progress you will know that. This has taken literally hundreds of hours of my time over the past few months.I suggest you do your homework before throwing any derisory remarks in my direction on that score.And please don't see me as selling myself as the humble do-gooder - my reasons are as self-centred as anyone' - I needed this tool and it gives me pleasure to be able to share it for free. Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
LawrenceKellie (896 posts)
Dec-10-01, 11:41 AM (EST) 25. "RE: _f tile format" No, you are again incorrect, which is starting to appear to be a real habit for you. You are not being pilloried because for not dilvulging information. You are being pilloried, if you feel you need to call it that, for not responding to a simple question. On which to date you have STILL not responded to.The question was simple. You said search the archives. I said I had. You said search again. Clearly, you found the information, clearly you could have answered the question, either by (a) providing search terms which would have facilitated the finding of that information or (b) actually written down the information. But, no, you had to just respond search the forum. Which, as I have stated several times, was simply because you wanted revenge because I would not give you an answer once.Therefore, I suggest you do YOUR homework before throwing any derisory remarks in ANY direction.Lawrence Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
LawrenceKellie (896 posts)
Dec-10-01, 11:28 AM (EST) 24. "RE: _f tile format" Thank you for not providing the information for which I asked. I asked "Could you be so kind as to point me to the thread." Instead, you copied/pasted part of the thread.I have now spent time I could be doing something more beneficial, like route building, in trying to justify myself to you and to the world.It is interesting that even though the thread was started on November 5, 2001, it did not show up in any search using 1 month or 3 month time criteria. It was not until I expanded that search to All times, that it was found. This was why I asked you to "point me to the thread," as I was having difficulty in finding it. And I guess that difficulty is a problem with the search function.Now, on to the subject.I would like to point you to message 8 in that thread, the last large paragraph, which is the first time that the word "secret" is used. (And, yes, I was the first to use it. So if that makes you feel better, I am happy. However, in this thread in which I am writing, you are the first to use that term.)Here is the paragraph in its entirety:"However, if you have DEM data available, you can model any number of tiles--from 1 to however many your computer memory will allow--with one easy process. There is no need for the "total destruction" that is mentioned in conjunction with using DEM-EX. I routinely update one or two tiles, and I find them occasionally (I just found a couple the other day, but I didn't write down the coordinates), with the DEM-EX method with NO "total destruction" mentioned above. You just have to know the secret involved. "Now what is the context of the paragraph? What is the context in which I use the word "secret"?It is clearly what is in italics: you can model any number of tiles--from 1 to however many your computer memory will allow--with one easy process.Now, if I am creating a document which will tell the "secret," why would I answer you and tell you at that time? Whereas I can tell you the secret in three words, it is more than those three words, it is an entire process. And, I owe you nor anyone else any justfication as to why Rich finished the project, and I am not going to start now.Take a notice at what happened when I announced that MicroDem had been updated for the MSTS community. Yes, it was a lack of judgment on my part to announce it at that time. But look what happened. Before anyone had any procedures/processes to follow, many people downloaded it and made a mess of their projects. So why would I tell you those three words which constitute the secret when you wouldn't have the entire process that goes along with it? AND, when it didn't work for you, you would come back and say what a louse I was.However, from your comments, it becomes clear as to the real motivation in your attack on me when I asked for help--and that is because you feel slighted because I didn't tell you the secret. Well, I have a surprise for you. I'm going to tell you--just the way that you told me the information that I asked for in this thread with your own words: "Search the forum (including archives)." The secret is there. I accidently found it the other day, and I wasn't even aware of it until that time even though I must have read it. But I still maintain that it was because of my post in the TSTF II thread that you felt it was honkey-dorry to attack me when I asked for help. Oh, sure, you couched some of it in smiley faces, but it was an attack, an unwillingness to assist because you felt you had been slighted in the previous post.Further, Rich does not owe you any justification either as to why he is charging for the information. I gave him full intellectual property rights to that information to do with as he pleased. And the information that is provided in that $5 is millions of times more helpful than anything that has been produced for free. AND, I never stated in the post to which you refer that the information would be free. Now, I have a question for you. If you are bothered by the fact that Rich is charging $5 for the DEM Guide, do you object to the the fact that Michael Pivone (sp?) is making money on his Route book? That book was clearly his inspiration, but I doubt if he could have written it as quickly if it wasn't for this forum. In other words, I do not believe his book would have been published as soon as it was if this forum did not exist. He is, or at least was, an avid reader of this forum. He had to gain some ideas from here. But I don't recall reading any comment of yours about him charging for the book. Why is that?Finally, to date, you still refuse to provide help with the original question. Why is that, zorcan? Could it be because you are still trying to get revenge?So, the point still remains that you are on the attack in revenge for the comments I made about TSTF II--and I still hold to those comments. For those with DEM data available, TFTS II does not provide much help. For those without, it is a wonderful piece of software.By the way, I did notice TSTF III and the ability to grade routes on existing modelled terrain. I think that is great.Lawrence Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
zorcan (90 posts)
Dec-10-01, 12:12 PM (EST) 26. "RE: _f tile format" Lawrence, Lawrence, Lawrence,Can't we PLEASE let this drop.I will bring together in one post all that I have found relevant about the tile formats and post it - you posted earlier that you now had all the threads. I will do this tomorrow.PLEASE STOP TWISTING my remarks - I HAVE NO OBJECTION to people making money form their efforts - just to the double standards that are being applied as to whether or not I am obliged to relate information whilst others at their option need not.I have MADE NO ATTACK on Rich in this respect.Please don't try and distort what was actually said and meant in that thread regarding the "secret" - you called it the secret and kept it a secret and YOU WERE AT LIBERTY TO DO SO. Just don't then persecute me for failing to tell you something - that too is my perogative.I am NOT intersested in revenge - I have NO PROBLEM with your appraisal of TSTF - it was honest and objective - I wish more would make the same effort.I have never claimed that TSTF has much to offer those who use DEMs - that was never its purpose. BUT - it could easily be so developed. Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
rgarber (773 posts)
Dec-10-01, 03:49 PM (EST) 27. "RE: _f tile format" Agreed, we need to drop this mess. It's spilling over into everything. However it happened, it happened.Let's all becareful of how we use our words. I'm pretty ticked by what appears to be a slanderous attack on my name and efforts, but if it wasn't meant that way, then it wasn't meant that way.We're all trying to do the same thing are we not? We're much better unified than divided.I just want people to understand that the DEM Tutorial was written for US routes as its stated on the website. I want people to understand this is no cheap bag of tricks to get $5. I believe everything I have uploaded has been of quality and helpful since I first started uploading.Zorcan if you could please follow through with what you know that would be great. In the end, the easier we make it for people to do DEMs, the community will benefit.Rich Garber Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
LawrenceKellie (896 posts)
Dec-11-01, 10:52 AM (EST) 28. "RE: _f tile format" Drop it? Then quite responding! It's that easy.Again, you get the facts incorrect. You did attack Rich. You claim that "Subsequently we learn that this info. is for sale (by A.N Other)" wasn't an attack?
You did not provide a respectful answer--even when you could. And why? Well the only reason that I can come up with is the one that I have stated, you wanted revenge.Further, then in the process of providing information, which by the way was NOT the only choice I gave in one of my last messages to you ("Clearly, you found the information, clearly you could have answered the question, either by (a) providing search terms which would have facilitated the finding of that information or (b) actually written down the information." I gave the option of providing search terms), you continue to press the attack.So, if you want to drop this, then don't respond.Lawrence Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
LawrenceKellie (896 posts)
Dec-11-01, 10:56 AM (EST) 29. "RE: _f tile format" >I HAVE NO OBJECTION to
>people making money form their
>efforts - just to the And you call "Subsequently we learn that this info. is for sale (by A.N Other)" not an objection?Again, the facts speak for themselves as to your ability to get the truth correct.Lawrence Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

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