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"Further enhancements to TSTF"

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zorcan (66 posts)
Nov-16-01, 06:54 AM (EST) "Further enhancements to TSTF" I plan a new release of TSTF next mid-week. This addresses the various speed issues.TSTF will be VERY much faster at loading, saving and displaying terrains. The erase function will also be VERY much faster.Terrains will use a new file format as part of this, but this will be almost totally transparent to the user, conversion being performed automatically and existing formats remaining usable.Does anyone have any feedback on the current version ? Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
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Subject Author Message Date ID RE: Further enhancements to TSTF kcjones Nov-16-01 1 RE: Further enhancements to TSTF zorcan Nov-19-01 4 RE: Further enhancements to TSTF kcjones Nov-19-01 8 RE: Further enhancements to TSTF zorcan Nov-20-01 10 RE: Further enhancements to TSTF kcjones Nov-20-01 12 RE: Further enhancements to TSTF kcjones Nov-21-01 13 RE: Further enhancements to TSTF dcm Nov-21-01 14 RE: Further enhancements to TSTF zorcan Nov-22-01 15 RE: Further enhancements to TSTF dcm Nov-22-01 17 RE: Further enhancements to TSTF zorcan Nov-22-01 16 RE: Further enhancements to TSTF kcjones Nov-22-01 18 RE: Further enhancements to TSTF dcm Nov-16-01 2 RE: Further enhancements to TSTF zorcan Nov-19-01 6 RE: Further enhancements to TSTF dcm Nov-19-01 7 RE: Further enhancements to TSTF Mitch Nov-18-01 3 RE: Further enhancements to TSTF zorcan Nov-19-01 5 RE: Further enhancements to TSTF Mitch Nov-19-01 9 RE: Further enhancements to TSTF zorcan Nov-20-01 11

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kcjones (6 posts)
Nov-16-01, 03:29 PM (EST) 1. "RE: Further enhancements to TSTF" It works OK for me BUT when I sit in Leominster station there should be a hill to the East. It is there but the perspective appears all wrong. The distance to the top of the hill is right. I used lengths of track to measure it, and the hights are correct, according to the editor. BUT it just doesn't look right. Any suggestions.
Dick C.PS I am trying to model the GWR Leominster to Bromyard branch and it HAS to look right. Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
zorcan (66 posts)
Nov-19-01, 03:56 AM (EST) 4. "RE: Further enhancements to TSTF" Look for earlier posts on this - MSTS world tiles are skewed and 1 metre in MSTS reflects a different length in the real world depending on whether you are measuring East-West or North-South.There is no way to overcome this AND preserve correct longitude/latitude coordinates.most people seem to find it acceptabel, but there will certainly be some scenes which look distinctly odd. Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
kcjones (6 posts)
Nov-19-01, 01:59 PM (EST) 8. "RE: Further enhancements to TSTF" Thanks for the answer re the different metre form east to west and west to east.
The questions now are 1) which are the shorter metres? (I will research the posts for that) and 2) If I mark the SE registration point say two grid ref points West ,supposing the EW metres are short, will this give me a better visual effect. I suppose the answer to that is "Have a go." OK I'm lazy so I ask the expert.
By the way thanks for the excellent toolDick C. Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
zorcan (66 posts)
Nov-20-01, 03:33 AM (EST) 10. "RE: Further enhancements to TSTF" Dick,The distortion has 2 characteristics. Whilst the tiles each occupy a nominal 2048 by 2048 metres, in practise each is roughly 1920 metres East-West by 2200 metres North South - this does vary according to global position.Also, whilst the tiles should be square, they actually map as "lozenges" - you can see both these distortions when you take the "Show world tiles" option.So there is some potential for correcting the differences in dimensions by distorting the registration process BUT you will then lose registration with any markers you create.By all means try this - let me know how you get on Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
kcjones (6 posts)
Nov-20-01, 05:46 PM (EST) 12. "RE: Further enhancements to TSTF" Thanks for the information. I have downloaded your latest version and as it works quicker I will play around and see what I get. After all selective compression is nothing new to railway modellors!!! I may try distorting my maps first. Any way I will let you know the results. If I can get the hang of posting pictures I may even do that.
Dick C. Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
kcjones (6 posts)
Nov-21-01, 05:04 PM (EST) 13. "RE: Further enhancements to TSTF" ZorcanI have experimented using TSTF by:-
1) reducing the height of my bmp map in proportion to the 1920 to 2200 metre size of the actual tiles
2) skewing the map to make the "Lozenge" shaped tile lines into rectangles, more or less in line with lon and lat.
3) Plotting the contours and marker points from that.The results so far LOOK promising. The landscape looks as it should. Hopefully with a few trees and buildings it should be even better. (Hurry up Abacus I want to convert some of the local buildings I built for FS2000)I will do some more testing to see if I can improve on the technique. But for those who want to run trains in a well loved landscape this may be an answer.Dick C. Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
dcm (16 posts)
Nov-21-01, 06:49 PM (EST) 14. "RE: Further enhancements to TSTF" zorcan,i haven't had a chance to check out tstf yet, but this thread sounds as if you are discussing reverse projecting a bitmap file from - what? TM to Lat/Lon? or TM to Goode?If you want some algorithms for this give me a shout and I'll dig them out for you.Regards,Dave C. Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
zorcan (66 posts)
Nov-22-01, 04:03 AM (EST) 15. "RE: Further enhancements to TSTF" Dave, Thanks for the offer. TSTF already incorporates conversion routines from longitude/latitude to Goode projections, as well as to UTM.What we are discussing here is the skewing effect which MSTS creates by regarding Goode tiles as being squares rather thna variable geometry lozenges (as they map to the "real world").
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dcm (16 posts)
Nov-22-01, 08:47 AM (EST) 17. "RE: Further enhancements to TSTF" OK - I'll keep my mouth shut til i've actually had a look at it. ;)It just sounded to me that Dick was trying to reverse project and then reproject his map from TM into Goode. I'll shut up for now.Cheers,Dave C Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
zorcan (66 posts)
Nov-22-01, 04:06 AM (EST) 16. "RE: Further enhancements to TSTF" Dick,Thanks for that - I've not had the time to play with this aspect, although I have considered building this effect into TSTF.I wonder how easy you will find it to create an adjoining terrain which will mesh correctly with this one ? Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
kcjones (6 posts)
Nov-22-01, 05:35 PM (EST) 18. "RE: Further enhancements to TSTF" Thanks for the interest.I am afraid I am lost with all this technical stuff. I am a sledge hammer and crow-bar man myself:-} I will try the next piece of scenery and pass on my results. With all the excellent bits of rolling stock being produced it is a pity if the landscape they are run through doesn't look right. I am sure that loco drivers (engineers)use the landscape as visual clues as to where they are on their route "Ooh Arr! There be Angman's Bluff. Station be only ten miles away." Unfortunately in MSTS, being a lozenge shaped world it probably isn't!!!!!! Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
dcm (16 posts)
Nov-16-01, 04:34 PM (EST) 2. "RE: Further enhancements to TSTF" Hi,I've only just seen what a great program you've been working on here (been locked away in a dark room doing much the same thing myself these last weeks). I just wanted to say that I don't want you to think that we're treading on your toes with the product I've been promoting on here. I have the utmost admiration for anyone that produces freeware and I'm looking forward to giving your program a spin. Hopefully we can inspire each other with a little healthy competition!Keep up the great work, I have a feeling that you enjoy doing this as much as we do.Cheers,Dave C Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
zorcan (66 posts)
Nov-19-01, 04:15 AM (EST) 6. "RE: Further enhancements to TSTF" Dave,I have no problem with others working in this area - although my reaction might be different if I were in this for the money My aim is to provide myself with a means of creating acceptable MSTS terrains, using UK locations. If there were already tools aout there which met my needs, I wouldn't be bothering with this - my aim is to drain the swamp, not kill alligators After this week's (planned) upgrade, I have one more enhancement which I hope to accomplish, to make it easier to lay the track once inside Route Editor.On the commercial aspects, TSTF draws on a lot of work done elsewhere by others and made available to all without charge. I would not be happy to charge for something which I had created on this basis.I look forward to trying TSTools, but have to say that a demo which does not allow you to actually update tiles is a bit disappointing - I would have preferred a fully functional time limited sampler. Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
dcm (16 posts)
Nov-19-01, 07:40 AM (EST) 7. "RE: Further enhancements to TSTF" >On the commercial aspects, TSTF draws
>on a lot of work
>done elsewhere by others and
>made available to all without
>charge. I would not be
>happy to charge for something
>which I had created on
>this basis.
>Of course, and I completely agree with that feeling. We have done all of our own research for TsTools - part of the reason that we haven't really got too involved with developments in this forum and others like it is because we've been too busy sitting in darkened rooms trying to figue things out! anyway, having spent so long getting to this point, we feel happy with ourselves for making it a commercial venture.
>I look forward to trying TSTools,
>but have to say that
>a demo which does not
>allow you to actually update
>tiles is a bit disappointing
>- I would have preferred
>a fully functional time limited
>sampler. I can understand that - it is disappointing, but we felt that this was the necessary limitation to impose. It is, after all, a demo of a commercial product. If we made it fully functional with a time limitation, it would be too easy to use it to build your routes during the trial period and then either use it no more, or find ways around the limitation (there are always ways around such a limitation). I do respect the integrity of most members of the simming community, but we have learned from experience that there are unscrupulous individuals around ready to exploit the hard work of others. Many of us have been victims of pirated work which we have released as freeware where others have used it to their own commercial ends.
Regards,Dave C
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Mitch (4 posts)
Nov-18-01, 12:42 PM (EST) 3. "RE: Further enhancements to TSTF" Hi, great programme. Any chance of making the contour lines a very bright colour, say red. Its hard to see the areas I have already completed, eyesite not as good as it should be. Is there an optimum size, colour depth and DPI for the scanned image?
Thanks Mitch Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
zorcan (66 posts)
Nov-19-01, 04:07 AM (EST) 5. "RE: Further enhancements to TSTF" Mitch - by contour lines are you talking about theire appearance before or after you've traced them? - if before, well thats just the colour as they come in your scanned image. If I could find a reliable way of changing thier colour, you wouldn't have the job of hand tracing them If you are referring to the colour applied during tracing, well that reflects the height of the contour. If they were all the same colour, how would you make any sense of them ?Personally, I never have any confusion between the map image and traced contours. You could try using some image processing software to "dull down" the map before you start working on it. Also, zooming in more might help. Sorry, but I'm not an expert on methods for improving image contrast etc There is no set rule as to colour resolution needed in the map - as long as it is deciperable. TSTF works with a 4 metre resolution, so ideally you would have a DPI which equates to at least 1 pixel per 4 metres, although the maps I use are nearer 7 metres per pixel. There is no reason why you couldn't model most of a route using a relatively low scale (say 25,000:1) then create smaller sections of detial in it (around stations, yards etc) using a much higher scale. As long as the map is correctly registered, TSTF will let you "drop" one peice of terrain into/onto another, with no seams. Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
Mitch (4 posts)
Nov-19-01, 02:32 PM (EST) 9. "RE: Further enhancements to TSTF" zorcan, thanks for the reply. With regards to the contour colours on first two levels I did TSTF's contour lines were almost identical to the contour colours of my scan, having made more progress I am now on to nice strong reds very easy to see. I have had a go at changing colours on the scan with very little success. I am using some oldish OS pathfinder maps which have all roads and contour colours of a similar shade of orange. Is there a way to increase the size of the map window or are we down to performance issues? Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
zorcan (66 posts)
Nov-20-01, 03:38 AM (EST) 11. "RE: Further enhancements to TSTF" Mitch,TSTF is the first serious VB project I have tackled. The scrolling and zooming process would be very much complicated by having a re-sizeable map window. At the moment, I am concentrating on delivering the functionality I need and I haven't paid too much attention to such nicities. Maybe I'll look at htis later, but I'm keen to create some routes ASAP Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

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