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jeffmorris (324 posts)
Nov-15-01, 12:19 PM (EST) "Route Planning" After trying to use street maps in book form and on computer to make plans for new MSTS routes, I used a CAD program to make plans for new MSTS routes. It's faster to make changes in the CAD program than in the MSTS Route Editor. Jeffrey. Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
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Subject Author Message Date ID RE: Route Planning akochan Nov-15-01 1 RE: Route Planning LawrenceKellie Nov-15-01 2 RE: Route Planning jeffmorris Nov-15-01 3 RE: Route Planning LawrenceKellie Nov-15-01 4 RE: Route Planning rgarber Nov-15-01 5 RE: Route Planning rgarber Nov-15-01 6 RE: Route Planning jeffmorris Nov-16-01 8 RE: Route Planning jeffmorris Nov-16-01 7 RE: Route Planning davidbeach Nov-16-01 9 RE: Route Planning LawrenceKellie Nov-16-01 10 RE: Route Planning nwman Nov-16-01 11 RE: Route Planning jeffmorris Nov-17-01 12 RE: Route Planning LawrenceKellie Nov-17-01 13 RE: Route Planning jeffmorris Nov-17-01 14 RE: Route Planning LawrenceKellie Nov-17-01 15 RE: Route Planning GandyDancer Nov-17-01 17 RE: Route Planning LawrenceKellie Nov-18-01 18 RE: Route Planning jeffmorris Nov-18-01 20 RE: Route Planning GandyDancer Nov-17-01 16 RE: Route Planning jeffmorris Nov-18-01 19 RE: Route Planning GandyDancer Nov-18-01 21 RE: Route Planning jeffmorris Nov-18-01 22 RE: Route Planning GandyDancer Nov-19-01 23

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akochan (90 posts)
Nov-15-01, 02:18 PM (EST) 1. "RE: Route Planning" Heh. I wish MSTS editor WAS a CAD program. Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
LawrenceKellie (648 posts)
Nov-15-01, 03:36 PM (EST) 2. "RE: Route Planning" I'm having a hard time following your message. From what I have used the Route Editor, which amounts to laying over 430 miles of track in 2,500 square miles of DEM-modeled terrain, you do not "plan a route" with it. You create a route--lay track, insert scenery, etc.So, I guess I am confused by your "plan a route" language. What are you meaning by that?Lawrence Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
jeffmorris (324 posts)
Nov-15-01, 06:09 PM (EST) 3. "RE: Route Planning" Lawrence, It's better to make plans for a route BEFORE you lay one section of track in the Route Editor much like you make plans for a model train layout BEFORE you cut up the wood to build the benchwork and lay the track sections on the benchwork. I tried different ways of making plans only to have the trackwork done wrong in Route Editor. Jeffrey. Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
LawrenceKellie (648 posts)
Nov-15-01, 06:21 PM (EST) 4. "RE: Route Planning" Jeff, the OBVIOUS is of course OBVIOUS.The question remains. How do you "plan a route" in the Route Editor?Do you insert markers, trees, etc.? Is your "plan a route" where you are modeling the terrain?This is what I am trying to understand. I have never heard of the Route Editor being used in that fashion.So, what activities/functions do you perform in the Route Editor that falls under your definition of "plan a route"?Lawrence Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
rgarber (544 posts)
Nov-15-01, 06:38 PM (EST) 5. "RE: Route Planning" "It's faster to make changes in the CAD program than in the MSTS Route Editor."I'm a little sketchy on this one too. It sounds like you're saying you making track plans outside of the route editor and some how importing it into the route editor.Or do you mean.. you just plan the route in a cad program for the purposes of yeah, planning.Rich Garber Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
rgarber (544 posts)
Nov-15-01, 06:39 PM (EST) 6. "RE: Route Planning" Wait a sec... I thought you ripped up your CDs to MSTS anyhow? Or do I got you mixed up with somebody else?Rich Garber Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
jeffmorris (324 posts)
Nov-16-01, 06:04 AM (EST) 8. "RE: Route Planning" Rich, I didn't destroy the CD-ROMs. Someone else did it. Jeffrey. Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
jeffmorris (324 posts)
Nov-16-01, 05:37 AM (EST) 7. "RE: Route Planning" LAST EDITED ON Nov-16-01 AT 06:01 AM (EST)Here is the screenshot of the NYCTA BMT/IND subway system in Brooklyn that I created using AutoCAD 2000. AutoCAD lets me make changes to the Brighton Beach and the Culver routes BEFORE I lay the track sections in Route Editor. Of course, I couldn't import the CAD drawing into Route Editor so I use the LIST command in AutoCAD to get measurements of the 2D objects in the drawing and lay track sections in the Route Editor to match the length of lines in the drawing. I also created separate drawings of juctions where routes meet, and drew lines and arcs to represent actual track sections. Jeffrey. Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
davidbeach (71 posts)
Nov-16-01, 03:30 PM (EST) 9. "RE: Route Planning" Using CAD can certainly add to the MSTS experience. I have been generating my own marker files by inserting a map image (USGS topo DRG imagae) into AutoCAD, tracing what I am interested in with p-lines, including the quad outline. Move all of the tracings so that they line up with the newer datum since that’s what the terrain is based on. Then w-block out the information and reinsert it scaled so that the lower left and upper right corners of the bounding box have units that match their Lat-Long values. Next is dxfout the results. Then a VB program to go through the dxf file and make markers. All of the vertices have coordinates that are Lat-Long values, and the program uses the CAD layer as the marker tag. Works pretty slick and the ability to have anything off of the map show up as a labeled marker is real nice. Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
LawrenceKellie (648 posts)
Nov-16-01, 09:57 PM (EST) 10. "RE: Route Planning" So, since you begged the question, let me ask it again.How would you use the Route Editor to plan a route?Lawrence Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
nwman (18 posts)
Nov-16-01, 11:00 PM (EST) 11. "RE: Route Planning" I thank no matter what you do to work up the information you need to build a route, once your in the RE i find it hard to aline the track to the the markers ive set.I'm working on the route from Williamson W.V. to Bluefield VA. and the track is one turn after another.I have three or four places all ready that i just cant seem to line up,and I have a long way to go.I don't thank they gave us enough track to work with.Any one have any sugjestions? Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
jeffmorris (324 posts)
Nov-17-01, 06:42 AM (EST) 12. "RE: Route Planning" I thought that the AutoCAD drawings helped me lay track in Route Editor but I had problems with the trackwork at Stillwell Avenue station and along the Culver route. I'm not sure about buying a tablet, putting a page of the street map on it, and using the pen to enter coordinates of the stations and curved track. A small tablet that costs $100 is useless and a large 12X12 tablet costs $500. I could scan the street map into my computer and import the image into AutoCAD but I'm not sure if this will work. Jeffrey. Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
LawrenceKellie (648 posts)
Nov-17-01, 02:31 PM (EST) 13. "RE: Route Planning" LAST EDITED ON Nov-17-01 AT 02:32 PM (EST)You have to be the one who trashed the CDs, as Rich said. Why do I say that? Because your rudeness in not responding is in character to the type of person who would get mad and trash the CDs.I take it that you are not going to answer me?So, I ask again, How do you use the Route Editor to plan a route?Lawrence Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
jeffmorris (324 posts)
Nov-17-01, 08:27 PM (EST) 14. "RE: Route Planning" I scanned part of the street map from "New York City 5 Borough Atlas" book published by Hagstrom into my computer using a flatbed scanner, loaded the image into AutoCAD, drew some lines and dots, and tried to measure the distance between stations but I think that the measurements are wrong. Maybe I made the conversions wrong. The scale of the map is 1:25000. Jeffrey. Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
LawrenceKellie (648 posts)
Nov-17-01, 10:30 PM (EST) 15. "RE: Route Planning" Now, how many times is this?How do you "plan" a route in the Route Editor?It's very easy to answer the question. Lawrence Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
GandyDancer (30 posts)
Nov-17-01, 11:41 PM (EST) 17. "RE: Route Planning" >Now, how many times is this?
>
>
>How do you "plan" a route
>in the Route Editor?
>
>It's very easy to answer the
>question.
>
>Lawrence
If you ask the same question mutiple times, and get a proper response. Why belabor the point. I believe Jeff has stated many times that he is not using the route editor to do the planing. If this criticism offends you just try replying. I will choose to ignore you also.Sam Schulenburg Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
LawrenceKellie (648 posts)
Nov-18-01, 00:22 AM (EST) 18. "RE: Route Planning" Please show me where he states, "I do not use the Route Editor to plan the route," or something similar.He started out by saying that he did, this is a logical deduction which I have pointed out above. Other then a condescending message about making a plan "BEFORE," he has not responded to my question.A simple answer from him, instead of his rude, condescending comments would be appreciated.Lawrence Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
jeffmorris (324 posts)
Nov-18-01, 04:35 AM (EST) 20. "RE: Route Planning" Lawrence, I don't use the Route Editor to plan routes. I use AutoCAD to plan routes. Jeffrey. Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
GandyDancer (30 posts)
Nov-17-01, 11:29 PM (EST) 16. "RE: Route Planning" >I scanned part of the street
>map from "New York City
>5 Borough Atlas" book published
>by Hagstrom into my computer
>using a flatbed scanner, loaded
>the image into AutoCAD, drew
>some lines and dots, and
>tried to measure the distance
>between stations but I think
>that the measurements are wrong.
>Maybe I made the conversions
>wrong. The scale of the
>map is 1:25000. Jeffrey.
>
> Jeff:The problem may be that the City map that you are using is based on a different projection then MSTS uses. i.e DEM data when it is imported into MSTS with the DemEx program maps UTM XYZ coordenates to MSTS format, which I belive I saw on the forum was a Goodie projection. What this all means is that the following can be true:1) The measurments are skewed.
2) You are using feet instead of meters.What I do is use Delorme's Topo USA, and zoom in on the area I wish to use. I then create a GPS text file of waypoints for all junctions in my route. I then save the waypoints as a LAT/LONG text file. I then copy and paste this file into a copy of any existing Marker file, after renaming and deleting all the Marker lines in this file except the first line. (This has to be edited in a unicode editor) Then I cut and paste the LAT/LONG points to be of the same format as the first line that I saved from the original Marker file. When Finished I delete the first line, moving up the lines I have entered. see sample below. SIMISA@@@@@@@@@@JINX0I0t______Marker( -120.49193 37.30369 RAIL 1)
Marker( -120.49016 37.30672 RAIL 1)
Marker( -120.48839 37.30975 RAIL 1)
Marker( -120.48729 37.31170 RAIL 1)
Marker( -120.48637 37.31346 RAIL 1)Being these items are in LAT/LONG format, when you enter the route editor they will appear in the correct place.Sam Schulenburg Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
jeffmorris (324 posts)
Nov-18-01, 04:33 AM (EST) 19. "RE: Route Planning" Sam, How can you create GPS text files in Topo USA program if you don't have a GPS device? Jeffrey. Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
GandyDancer (30 posts)
Nov-18-01, 03:12 PM (EST) 21. "RE: Route Planning" >Sam, How can you create GPS
>text files in Topo USA
>program if you don't have
>a GPS device? Jeffrey. Jeff, You caught me in a grooss canard. I am using Topo from National Geographic. I have found that Topo has better resulation than Delorme's Topo. The only problem, is they package it by the state or region at $99.00 a pop. http://maps.nationalgeographic.com/topo/ You dont need to have a GPS device. The program provides a method to create waypoints, and either download them to a GPS, or save the waypoints as an ASCII text file.I also have Delorme's Topo, and eventhough it lets you save and print waypoints, I could not get it to save in text format.Sam Schulenburg
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jeffmorris (324 posts)
Nov-18-01, 06:29 PM (EST) 22. "RE: Route Planning" Sam, Does Topo from National Geographic show city streets and railroad tracks? Jeffrey. Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
GandyDancer (30 posts)
Nov-19-01, 00:45 AM (EST) 23. "RE: Route Planning" >Sam, Does Topo from National Geographic
>show city streets and railroad
>tracks? Jeffrey. Jeff; I had to check my CD of the San Francisco area. It shows streets,Railroads,BART,MUNI...ect. I found that it was the only map that had the most information on the Yosemite Valley Railroad. It shows existing sectons of track, or roadbed.Sam Schulenburg (Laying track across the Merced River 63 miles to El Portal)
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