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sammy1 (8 posts)
Sep-25-01, 03:19 PM (EST) "Double Slips Revisited" So after searching away in here, I can't find if anyone found a solution to the single/double slip switch issue, but my yard needs one.So, I after some effort I got the double slip to load in the editor with the TSECTION.DAT entries shown here, but there are still problems I can't fix...I used the existing TSECTION.DAT TrackShapes 75 and 76 (crossovers) entries as input for the new TrackShape entries 77 and 78 for the slips, and straight length TrackShape entries 179 and 333(new - 30 meter) like this: _INFO(Slips)
TrackShape ( 77
FileName ( a1tdblslip10d.s )
NumPaths ( 2 )
SectionIdx ( 1 0 0 0 0 179 )
SectionIdx ( 1 2.1789 0 0.0951 -10 333 )
CrossoverShape ( )
XoverPts ( 1
XoverPt ( 0 0 25 )
) TrackSection ( 179
SectionSize ( 1.5 40 )
) TrackSection ( 333
SectionSize ( 1.5 30 )
)
One problem is that the link lines (between blue posts) are still off the ends of the angled track, and offset from the centerline (second SectionIdx entries?).I think I'm close on this - any assistance is greatly appreciated...Sammy Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
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Subject Author Message Date ID RE: Double Slips Revisited liwile Sep-26-01 1 RE: Double Slips Revisited CactusBoy Sep-30-01 2 RE: Double Slips Revisited rkalous Oct-03-01 3 RE: Double Slips Revisited rdamurphy Oct-03-01 4 RE: Double Slips Revisited landnrailroader Oct-03-01 5 RE: Double Slips Revisited CactusBoy Oct-03-01 6 RE: Double Slips Revisited liwile Oct-04-01 7 RE: Double Slips Revisited sammy1 Oct-05-01 8 RE: Double Slips Revisited liwile Oct-09-01 9 RE: Double Slips Revisited sammy1 Oct-09-01 10 RE: Double Slips Revisited liwile Oct-10-01 11 RE: Double Slips Revisited liwile Oct-10-01 12 RE: Double Slips Revisited liwile Oct-11-01 13

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liwile (9 posts)
Sep-26-01, 10:02 AM (EST) 1. "RE: Double Slips Revisited" SammyTrackShape (77
FileName ( A1tSglSlip10d.s )
NumPaths ( 2 )
SectionIdx ( 1 0 0 0 0 179 )
SectionIdx ( 1 4.4626 0 -9.4 -10 179 )
)What do you use the single slip and double slip for. Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
CactusBoy (254 posts)
Sep-30-01, 09:52 AM (EST) 2. "RE: Double Slips Revisited" It's a kind of switch that works like a crossover too. You can cross over, or using the switch; head down a divirging route.
Kinda hard to explain really... Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
rkalous (5 posts)
Oct-03-01, 01:03 PM (EST) 3. "RE: Double Slips Revisited" You have defined a crossover track section in the tsection.dat instead of a single or double slip. The double slip has four paths instead of two. However, if you would try to define the four paths in the tsection.dat the route editor will crash as soon as you have placed the double slip shape. This has to do with the fact that one path isn't allowed to be connected to more than one other path.Raymond.
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rdamurphy (65 posts)
Oct-03-01, 03:54 PM (EST) 4. "RE: Double Slips Revisited" OK, here's a hint, I think: Functionally, a double slip isn't the same as either a cross over or double xover, functionally, it's the same as two turnouts point to point >--<, so, that any route you enter, there are only TWO possible paths. Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
landnrailroader (34 posts)
Oct-03-01, 08:11 PM (EST) 5. "RE: Double Slips Revisited" Well Gentleman, now you know why those of us in the real railroad world refer to them as "puzzle switches". Because of the maintenance complexity and lack of parts availability, you won't find many of them in use today.Fairly recently, Amtrak reworked the south end of Union Station in Chicago, and replaced most, if not all, of the DSS with new ones. This was essential because of the limited real estate available for switching purposes.Double, or Single slip switches were used where there was limited real estate available. Mainly they were used around passenger stations in large cities, and to some extent in subway or similar use. In Europe, they are used a lot, and any picture you get, video, etc. of a SWiss, German, Belgium, or French railroad station will contain a bunch.Here is the functional description.Single Slip: Two routes, one at each end of the switch will connect to two outlets. I.e. on 1 route at each end, you will have a choice of two exits. On the other route, there is no diverging route, it simply goes straight through the mess.Double slip: Both routes on either end, can connect to two exit routes. One of these will be straight through the mess, the other will diverge from the straight path.Either one is represented functionally by two turnouts, point to point. However, for clarity, the Single slip would consist of a LH and RH turnout, point to point, whereas the Double slip would consist of two Wye turnouts point to point. Since either one is a single assembly for interlocking purposes, you can only clear one route at a time.In Most designs, including Amterican ones, all of the points are physically between the end frogs, but in some German designs, the points are outside of the end frogs. This creates a real bowl of sphagetti with a lot of extra frogs (places where rails cross), but may operate smoother because the diverging routes, or "slip routes" will have a broader radius.Furthermore, if you see one of these on a model railroad (I have 4) they will usually have fixed center frogs, but in the real world, they usually had movable point center frogs. Although this increased the mechanical nightmare, it made for a smoother passage through the mess. If you are curious, check your local hobby shop. Walthers sells one in Code-83 for HO, and Shinohara did sell one in Code-100 for HO. There may be one you can examine.J. H. Sullivan, P.E.
retired from CSX Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
CactusBoy (254 posts)
Oct-03-01, 09:34 PM (EST) 6. "RE: Double Slips Revisited" Sounds like a real headache...which I am proud to say i have only seen in operation ONCE.Jackson Mississippi Rail Yards for the ICG are visible from a raised highway. I remember several years ago, watching a double slip malfunction; sending one truck of a long car down one path, and the other truck down the other. It ended up being funny since the tracks ended up being parallell (though about 15 feet apart) and the car *one of those really long flat cars) just trundled along like it was meant to do that while the engine crew puzzled as to just how on earth /that/ happened.I still laugh to this day thinking about that little incident. (and In my mind, I can't help but wonder if the spirit of that DSS had a sense of humor.)
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liwile (9 posts)
Oct-04-01, 09:06 AM (EST) 7. "RE: Double Slips Revisited" SammyI've also got the same problem but only on the double slip.Plz checkhttp://www.train-sim.com/dcforum/DCForumID6/1865.htmlI've posted the single auto and manual as well as the double auto and manual slipsSingle slip
Double Slip
RegardsLiwile Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
sammy1 (8 posts)
Oct-05-01, 04:04 PM (EST) 8. "RE: Double Slips Revisited" Thanks for your efforts, Liwile. I finally get to check back on this thread and there are a bunch of messages... I read your other thread and wonder if the paths allow switching through each possible route? Noting Raymond's comment about spanking the editor with four path entries, but thinking that the double slip switch should be the same as four normal 10d switches, don't we need 4 paths?Something like (pseudocode only)... TrackShape ( 78
FileName ( a1tdblslip10d.s )
NumPaths ( 4 )
SectionIdx ( 2 0 0 0 0 183 175 )
SectionIdx ( 2 4.4626 0 -9.4 -10 183 176 )
SectionIdx ( 2 0 0 0 0 175 183 )
SectionIdx ( 2 4.4626 0 -9.4 10 176 183 )
)I threw the crossover shape def
CrossoverShape ( )
XoverPts ( 1
XoverPt ( 0 0 25 )
in the first pass as I thought this switch is also technically a crossover, but maybe it's not needed. Wish (!) there were better definitions of these little extra details in the file header.Is there a preferred thread for all these SS/DS issues? If so I'll repost there also...Regards,Sammy Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
liwile (9 posts)
Oct-09-01, 07:12 AM (EST) 9. "RE: Double Slips Revisited" Sammy and the restIf you use the following sectionidx the route editor crash. FileName ( A1tSglSlip10dmnl.s )
NumPaths ( 3 )
SectionIdx ( 2 0 0 0 0 179 )
SectionIdx ( 2 0 0 0 0 183 175 )
SectionIdx ( 2 4.4626 0 -9.4 -10 179 )
ManualJunctionShape ( )The reason there for is that the second path and the third path ends on the same place. Isn't there a way we can overcome the problem. If try to add MainRoute ( 2 ) and ClearanceDist ( ). But it stays the same. If you change the tracksection in the third path use a shorter straight section the route editor don't crash. But now you've two place in the same line where other tracks can connect two. Another problem. Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
sammy1 (8 posts)
Oct-09-01, 07:21 PM (EST) 10. "RE: Double Slips Revisited" Hmmm. Bummer. At this point (no pun intended) I give up. Just trying to do this from the BNSF/Metrolink Yard in San Bernardino CA:Thanks anyhoo.Sammy Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
liwile (9 posts)
Oct-10-01, 06:48 AM (EST) 11. "RE: Double Slips Revisited" SammyJust before you give up I think I've got it.TrackShape ( 243
FileName ( A1tDblSlip10dmnl.s )
NumPaths ( 4 )
SectionIdx ( 2 0 0 0 0 183 175 )
SectionIdx ( 2 0 0 0 0 179 )
SectionIdx ( 2 2.526 0 1.515 -10 179 )
SectionIdx ( 2 2.526 0 1.515 -10 176 183 )
ManualJunctionShape ( )
)The first picture is the one in the tsection file with the new values and the second picture is the one that I construct to see how is it suppose to look.Here are the 250r 5d 10d and 20d tracks also_INFO(Single Line Curved Track Sections with 250M radius, 5, 10, 20 degrees)
TrackSection ( 333
SectionSize ( 1.5 0 )
SectionCurve ( 250.0 -5 )
)
TrackSection ( 334
SectionSize ( 1.5 0 )
SectionCurve ( 250.0 5 )
)
TrackSection ( 335
SectionSize ( 1.5 0 )
SectionCurve ( 250.0 -10 )
)
TrackSection ( 336
SectionSize ( 1.5 0 )
SectionCurve ( 250.0 10 )
)
TrackSection ( 337
SectionSize ( 1.5 0 )
SectionCurve ( 250.0 -20 )
)
TrackSection ( 338
SectionSize ( 1.5 0 )
SectionCurve ( 250.0 20 )
)_INFO(Single Line 250 Metre curves)
TrackShape ( 244
FileName ( A1t250r5d.s )
NumPaths ( 1 )
SectionIdx ( 1 0 0 0 0 333 )
)
TrackShape ( 245
FileName ( A1t250r10d.s )
NumPaths ( 1 )
SectionIdx ( 1 0 0 0 0 335 )
)
TrackShape ( 246
FileName ( A1t250r20d.s )
NumPaths ( 1 )
SectionIdx ( 1 0 0 0 0 337 )
)When you finnish with your yard with the double slip in send a picture.RegardsLiwile Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
liwile (9 posts)
Oct-10-01, 10:01 AM (EST) 12. "RE: Double Slips Revisited" Sorry SorryHere is the correct track section for the 250m radius.The curvesize is 247.5075 and not 250 Don't ask me why. _INFO(Single Line Curved Track Sections with 250M radius, 5, 10, 20 degrees)
TrackSection ( 333
SectionSize ( 1.5 0 )
SectionCurve ( 247.5075 -5 )
)
TrackSection ( 334
SectionSize ( 1.5 0 )
SectionCurve ( 247.5075 5 )
)
TrackSection ( 335
SectionSize ( 1.5 0 )
SectionCurve ( 247.5075 -10 )
)
TrackSection ( 336
SectionSize ( 1.5 0 )
SectionCurve ( 247.5075 10 )
)
TrackSection ( 337
SectionSize ( 1.5 0 )
SectionCurve ( 247.5075 -20 )
)
TrackSection ( 338
SectionSize ( 1.5 0 )
SectionCurve ( 247.5075 20 )
)Liwile Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
liwile (9 posts)
Oct-11-01, 02:50 AM (EST) 13. "RE: Double Slips Revisited" Finally_INFO(Slips)
TrackShape ( 77
FileName ( A1tSglSlip10d.s )
NumPaths ( 3 )
SectionIdx ( 2 0 0 0 0 179 )
SectionIdx ( 2 0 0 0 0 183 175 )
SectionIdx ( 2 4.4626 0 -9.4 -10 185 184 )
) TrackShape ( 78
FileName ( A1tDblSlip10d.s )
NumPaths ( 4 )
SectionIdx ( 2 0 0 0 0 183 175 )
SectionIdx ( 2 0 0 0 0 179 )
SectionIdx ( 2 2.526 0 1.515 -10 182 184 )
SectionIdx ( 2 2.526 0 1.515 -10 176 183 )
)TrackShape ( 242
FileName ( A1tSglSlip10dmnl.s )
NumPaths ( 3 )
SectionIdx ( 1 0 0 0 0 179 )
SectionIdx ( 2 0 0 0 0 183 175 )
SectionIdx ( 2 4.4626 0 -9.4 -10 185 184 )
) TrackShape ( 243
FileName ( A1tDblSlip10dmnl.s )
NumPaths ( 4 )
SectionIdx ( 2 0 0 0 0 183 175 )
SectionIdx ( 2 0 0 0 0 179 )
SectionIdx ( 2 2.526 0 1.515 -10 182 184 )
SectionIdx ( 2 2.526 0 1.515 -10 176 183 )
)
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