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"Dummy head searchlight signal broken?"

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suckow (27 posts)
Sep-20-01, 00:01 AM (EST) "Dummy head searchlight signal broken?" LAST EDITED ON Sep-20-01 AT 00:03 AM (EST)I have the version 2.1 searchlight signals, and have used them on the route I'm constructing. At passing sidings, I use a double-head absolute coming into the diverge point, a single-head absolute on the mainline coming to the converge point, and a double-head absolute, dummy-head on the siding coming to the converge point. (6 signals, 3 at each end of the siding.) Between sidings, I use the single-head permissive signals in pairs (on facing each way).The problem is that the dummy-head signal never seems to show a more restrictive aspect than stop-and-proceed. This has resulted in a number of cornfield meets, because trains on the siding can proceed into the block, even though it may be occupied by an approaching train.If there's one train north-bound, and one south bound, everything seems to work fine. However, if (for example) I'm following a computer controlled train north, and another computer controlled train is coming south. The meet between the two computer trains (set-up with passing points) works fine, but then the south-bound train proceeds through the dummy-head signal (apparently on a red stop-and-proceed)The result has become all to familiar. If the signal problem wasn't bad enough, the computer controlled train never stops, and always crashes into my train. Once, I managed to stop my train and reverse direction before the crash. The stupid computer controlled train chased me until the next signal.Is this dummy-head signal "broken", or is it supposed to work this way? Should I replace the dummy-heads with a single-head absolute?Any help would be appreciated.ThanksSteve Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
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Subject Author Message Date ID RE: Dummy head searchlight signal b... JoeDiamond Sep-20-01 1 RE: Dummy head searchlight signal b... suckow Sep-20-01 2 RE: Dummy head searchlight signal b... suckow Sep-20-01 3 RE: Dummy head searchlight signal b... JoeDiamond Sep-20-01 6 RE: Dummy head searchlight signal b... suckow Sep-20-01 7 RE: Dummy head searchlight signal b... Signalman Sep-20-01 4 RE: Dummy head searchlight signal b... JoeDiamond Sep-20-01 5 RE: Dummy head searchlight signal b... bobs Sep-21-01 8 RE: Dummy head searchlight signal b... Signalman Sep-21-01 9 RE: Dummy head searchlight signal b... bobs Sep-21-01 10 RE: Dummy head searchlight signal b... Signalman Sep-22-01 11 RE: Dummy head searchlight signal b... bobs Sep-22-01 14 RE: Dummy head searchlight signal b... Signalman Sep-23-01 16 RE: Dummy head searchlight signal b... micmcc Sep-22-01 12 RE: Dummy head searchlight signal b... bobs Sep-22-01 13 RE: Dummy head searchlight signal b... brownstone Sep-26-01 18 RE: Dummy head searchlight signal b... BN_9402 Sep-22-01 15 RE: Dummy head searchlight signal b... JoeDiamond Sep-25-01 17

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JoeDiamond (94 posts)
Sep-20-01, 00:17 AM (EST) 1. "RE: Dummy head searchlight signal broken?" Open the sigcfg.dat file in the route folder and look for a signal type entry "SLfixedRed". There is only one aspect listed. Change it from STOP_AND_PROCEED to STOP and it will fix the problem. I guess that one slipped by during the testing phase.Conn Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
suckow (27 posts)
Sep-20-01, 00:41 AM (EST) 2. "RE: Dummy head searchlight signal broken?" Thanks for the quick reply. I'll give that a try, and see if it works.BTW, nice job on the signals. They look great.ThanksSteve
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suckow (27 posts)
Sep-20-01, 10:44 AM (EST) 3. "RE: Dummy head searchlight signal broken?" Well, I changed the SLfixedRed aspect from STOP_AND_PROCEED to STOP. It did fix the problem with trains leaving the siding when the block ahead was occupied by an oncoming train. Unfortunately, it seems to have introduced a different problem.I'm now occasionally seeing weird deadlock situations where the trains are miles apart. For example, a southbound train that pulled onto a siding for a meet is still waiting (after the meet) at the south end of the siding. Both southbound signals are red, and the north bound signal coming to the siding is green. Miles south at the next siding, a north bound train is stopped on the mainline at the north end of that siding. All three signals show red. Both train paths have passing paths set at both sidings. One or the other could be allowed to proceed and pass the opposing train at that siding, but the signals never change. Forever (hours in accelerated time in the activity editior). There are no other trains or consists on the route at this time. (The leading north bound train reached it's end point and dissappeared.) I tried this in the simulator, got the same result, (although I didn't wait hours), so it's not just a problem with the activity editor.This seems like another problem with the spastic dispatcher logic. I wonder if Hank had deliberately made the fixed red aspect STOP_AND_PROCEED as a compromise to get around this problem.Any thoughts?Steve
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JoeDiamond (94 posts)
Sep-20-01, 06:21 PM (EST) 6. "RE: Dummy head searchlight signal broken?" Try removing the aspect info from the dummy head altogether, the config file will look like this:SignalAspects ( 0
)
I tested it briefly and it seemed to work without problems. The signal should behave as a single head as far as the sim is concerned. I have not tested it with AI trains though. Let me know what happens.Conn Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
suckow (27 posts)
Sep-20-01, 08:26 PM (EST) 7. "RE: Dummy head searchlight signal broken?" I tried your suggestion, removed the aspect from the dummy-head. Unfortunately, it didn't seem to make any difference at all. I still get the weird deadlock with the opposing trains stuck at different sidings. As far as I can tell, the signal acts the same as when the aspect was STOP.There must be some quirk about this particular activity that the MS dispatcher code doesn't like. (or maybe it's the phase of the moon -- who knows?) I certainly checked everything I could think of that may be screwing up the activity.I'm tempted to change all the dummy-heads to single-head absolutes, but I suspect that I would have the same problem.Thanks for you help. I think that correcting the dummy-head's "STOP_AND_PROCEED" aspect was the correct thing to do. I guess I'll just have to continue working around the quirks of the dispatcher logic.If I get any further insight into the situation via further experimentation, I'll certainly post it so others may benefit.Steve
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Signalman (23 posts)
Sep-20-01, 05:20 PM (EST) 4. "RE: Dummy head searchlight signal broken?" Don't quite understand why you would need a two headed signal to come off the siding if thats what I read. Real life you would have a two headed absolute to enter the siding, top arm for the main track, bottom arm for the siding. Coming off the main or the siding to go onto the single track would be a one head absolute signal for each track.
Gordy Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
JoeDiamond (94 posts)
Sep-20-01, 06:01 PM (EST) 5. "RE: Dummy head searchlight signal broken?" Some roads use dirverging clear coming off sidings and other trailing-point situations to limit the speed for such movements. Other roads did the same thing through timetable instructions.Conn Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
bobs (156 posts)
Sep-21-01, 01:45 AM (EST) 8. "RE: Dummy head searchlight signal broken?" My understanding is that coming from a 2MT to 1MT situation, the track that merges in would have a red over something as this is considered a divergence. I've been told by a retired engineer that a two head would also be used to exit a siding if the siding allowed you to go faster than restricted speed, but a single head otherwise. Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
Signalman (23 posts)
Sep-21-01, 07:16 PM (EST) 9. "RE: Dummy head searchlight signal broken?" Years ago in signaling anything would be possible. In my 22 years and two employers I have never seen a second head coming off a siding (2 tracks to 1). Usually coming from 2 tracks to one is not considered a divergence, there is no choice on where you are going. Both of my employers, a second signal head told you what route you were taking, timetable/general orders told you at what speed the route would be. Top head for the normal route, the bottom head for the diverging route.
Personally in this simulation I think the simpler the signal system is the better its going to work.
Gordy
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bobs (156 posts)
Sep-21-01, 10:19 PM (EST) 10. "RE: Dummy head searchlight signal broken?" LAST EDITED ON Sep-21-01 AT 10:20 PM (EST)Gordy, I believe you. Here's what I got from Bruce Chapman, a retired Boston and Main engineer:At W Cutback, you have double mainline tracks and it is considered a
divergence when you leave double track to single track. The divergence
going east would be from the eastbound to the single track. If you were on
the Westbound going east it is not considered a divergence as your going
straight through the switch. Same rule applies going west at the east end
of the bridge. The single track goes back to double track, and the
Eastbound track again would be a divergence in both directions.
I can't honestly say I've ever seen a double head at the end of a 2 track area either. I think the right thing to do here would be to do it the way the BNSF does it, which I believe is with a single head. I know a way to check and, provided he answers, we'll have something definitive. Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
Signalman (23 posts)
Sep-22-01, 00:25 AM (EST) 11. "RE: Dummy head searchlight signal broken?" Well I think I was looking at this wrong, what I was saying is usually a signal coming from 2 tracks to 1 is not called a diverging signal, going from 1 track to 2 on the turnout side is usually called a diverging signal. Was not thinking about the track being diverging going either direction, got to remember I think of it all in signal terms.
One of these days I got to play with these signal scripts and see if I can figure out how to fool around with them.
Gordy Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
bobs (156 posts)
Sep-22-01, 02:37 PM (EST) 14. "RE: Dummy head searchlight signal broken?" Now you have me confused.In the example, as you leave the double track you are also approaching a divergence over the bridge, so the signal has double meaning; that you are cleared to the single track and that a divergence is possible ahead. In this case, a double head is needed coming off of the double track to account for the divergence ahead.If there was no divergence ahead, there wouldn't be a need for a double head. I think that's what you are saying(?). As I interpret what Bruce told me, he would also expect a double in this situation.I had forgotten that the area he wrote had this additional divergence, so shouldn't have used it as an example as it just mucks things up! Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
Signalman (23 posts)
Sep-23-01, 00:34 AM (EST) 16. "RE: Dummy head searchlight signal broken?" Well Bob, that spot at Cutbank is unusual, usually you don't have two end of double track locations side by side like that. But you still have the signal in front of the switch for the 1 track to 2 move, that is your diverging signal, the only reason to have a double head on the signal for the 2 track to 1 move would for a diverging approach/clear aspect, yellow/yellow or yellow/green. Wish I could put this on paper as its easier to look at. Trying to explain this stuff is tough.
For my own modification I removed the signal for the move from the single track to the double track at both switchs, I treated it as one big plant instead of two small ones. I just have two headed signals on the double track side of the switches. This could cause trouble with activities though, I haven't tried that yet.Now I got a question for you on the crossings, what stops the traffic at the crossings, I notice that many times the traffic is stopped longgggggggggggggggggtime before the train is even close to the crossing. Its probably stopped before the gates even come down.
Gordy Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
micmcc (1 posts)
Sep-22-01, 07:01 AM (EST) 12. "RE: Dummy head searchlight signal broken?"
In victoria Australia the normal practice for 3 position
signals is to have 2 or 3 heads
The top light is a normal speed light (ie normal track speed)
the 2nd light is a medium speed light (normaly 40kph) and the bottom light if fitted is a low speed light (15kph)
The top light is usually for the straigt route the second for the diverge and the 3rd to enter a yard or to let atrain into an occupied road. I have found the searchlight signals ideal for a route modeled on local practice but will need to work on aspects displayed as they differ from BNSF.
Is it possible to make signals approach opperated (ie display a red untill a predetermined speed is reached. mic
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bobs (156 posts)
Sep-22-01, 02:32 PM (EST) 13. "RE: Dummy head searchlight signal broken?" No, I don't think you can run them that way. The only thing you can look at is the status of the next signal(s) ahead of you, whether or not the block you are entering is occupied, if it is enabled to normal state, and if the track is switched the way your head is linked. Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
brownstone (15 posts)
Sep-26-01, 02:24 AM (EST) 18. "RE: Dummy head searchlight signal broken?" That's how they are used for Wisconsin Central, all sidings have dwarf signals exiting the siding going on to the main. A full size signal is used for the main line going from the area by the siding to beyond the sidings switch. A double head is used to indicate the condition of the main on top, the siding on the bottom; as it enters the area with the siding from beyond the siding.
These are some of the uses of the siganls. All of the examples are for traffic moving "up". On top are signal configurations, below are layouts of how traffic would respond. Green = Proceed Red = Stop Yellow = Approach (proceed prepared to stop at next signal. Trains exceeding 40 MPH immediately reduce to that speed)
These are examples from System Time Table No2 of the Wisconsin Central, and it's normal uses on the system. Stone ! Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
BN_9402 (14 posts)
Sep-22-01, 10:49 PM (EST) 15. "RE: Dummy head searchlight signal broken?" BTW, Whens the next version of the searchlight signals are gonna come out? I've been waiting for gantry mounts for sometime, and I am getting tired of triple head signals.Thanks!Austin Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
JoeDiamond (94 posts)
Sep-25-01, 04:13 PM (EST) 17. "RE: Dummy head searchlight signal broken?" It's been in beta testing for a while. I'm currently working on other projects at the moment. Joe Diamond Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

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