Little white void question/ terrain disappearing

LAST EDITED ON Dec-13-04 AT 01:54 PM (EST)

i've tried to do a search but probably due to my poor english, i've found infos only 'bout 'great white voids'...this is what appens to me: terrain in the whole area is ok but on a patch next to a tile edge terrain appears/disappears at some camera angles...
i would try do RGExtract it again, but unlucky i've done an enormous terrain editing on that tile, therefore processing it again with demex would make me loose all this... - i'm not sure that in explore mode it still happens.
- cursor sometimes disappears on that patch.
- bias is setted to 0.
- doing a 'single-terrain-point-flat' operation makes the terrain point go to mars... any suggestion from the big gurus...?!thanks a lot, your help is always precious,
merry Xmas, max

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RE: little white void question/ terrain disappearing..., charlie, Dec-13-04, 04:41 PM, (1) RE: little white void question/ terrain disappearing..., merlin78, Dec-14-04, 02:49 AM, (2) RE: little white void question/ terrain disappearing..., charlie, Dec-14-04, 10:16 AM, (3) RE: little white void question/ terrain disappearing..., merlin78, Dec-14-04, 12:17 PM, (4) RE: little white void question/ terrain disappearing..., merlin78, Dec-15-04, 03:32 AM, (5) RE: little white void question/ terrain disappearing..., merlin78, Dec-15-04, 04:30 AM, (6) RE: little white void question/ terrain disappearing..., merlin78, Dec-15-04, 04:56 AM, (7) RE: little white void question/ terrain disappearing..., charlie, Dec-15-04, 09:51 AM, (8)

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LAST EDITED ON Dec-13-04 AT 04:45 PM (EST)

Max,I have one of those, and I guess that yours then is only the second one that I have ever seen. I've known about mine since the earliest times, and I never found a fix.For mine, it takes a very limited set of camera angles to even find it in the RE. In the sim itself, i've only noticed it "out of the corner of my eye" in Key 2 view a couple of times. By the time you whirl around to look, it's gone. For a while, I was unsure that I was really seeing into the Great White Underneath or just a 124x124 sub-tile with a temporarily lost terrtex, since I can clearly see object shadows. I have no subterranian object there, but yours clearly shows.The camera angle difficulty may be then the only saving grace. No one has reported this to me in the last year, but now folks can all go try to find it now. Sorry for no help,
charlie

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well, i feel confortably now that i know we are two and i'm not alone...
lets see if there's anybody else who wants to join this fantastic club... thanks anyway, max

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LAST EDITED ON Dec-14-04 AT 10:17 AM (EST)

Max,One aspect of the defect that I forgot to mention. When you have the defect in view, if you press "w", you will probably see that the sub-tile has no terrain wireframe. Rotate the camera a few degrees and the wireframe should pop back in.I always thought that this problem must be associated with some sort of defect in the *.t or *_y.raw files. Regenerating the *_e.raw and *_n.raw files provides no help.I agree. If a re-DEM would help here, you always seem discover these things long after you would like to do that. regards,
charlie

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yeah it's true...
isn't there a way to save the terrain editing, as example raw files, in order to RGExtract the tile again , and then replace raw files...?
it could be an idea...anyway i'll give a look into the .t file looking for strange things...
regards,max

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charlie, please can you send me the .t file of the tile where you find this problem ? maybe i've found the answer.
you can send it to max.calvi @ inwind.it (cut out spaces), or attach here as .zip file.
many thanks, max

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no, it wasn't what i thought
therefore i've recreated the tile with RGE, tried to DEMEX it again, nothing changes... what else we can try...?
max

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well i've ofund this:
2. The Elevation White Void ProblemThis problem is seen less frequently than The Great White Void problem. It
only occurs if your route is in a very mountainous area and your maximum
height exceeds about 10,000 feet or around 3500 meters. You usually notice
it as soon as you process DEM data and it shows up in the editor as well
as in the simulator. You will also probably see mountains missing suddenly
pop into view as you get closer when working below the ceiling value.The fix for this problem is relatively easy. Lower the height of every
tile when you process it to keep your maximum height well below the
ceiling. This should not impact the visual effect of your route. Take the
mountains in Colorado as an example. Your overall height would be from 0
to well above 14, 000 feet. However, the lowest point of your route likely
will not be below 5,000 feet. You can lower the actual height of each tile
by 5,000 and the effective visual effect of 9,000 foot drops will be
maintained. After all, you don't know the difference if you engine fell
from 14,000 feet to 5,000 feet or just 9,000 to 0. It looks the same! If
you build a route up Everest, you are out of luck!
now the question is: since i have on that tile the piz bernina, amore than 4000metres, i would try to lower all the route down:
is it route riter able to shift all the terrain edited, or it shifts only objects, while for the terrain i should recreate it again lowering down with DEMEX...?thanks, max

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LAST EDITED ON Dec-15-04 AT 09:54 AM (EST)

Max,I'm pretty sure that's not the problem here. The high altitude white-out problem has been known for well over three years. In my first attempt at the Silverton Branch (ca. Jan 2002), the total white-out condition in the RE occurred at camera elevations of about 3350 meters. I mean true white-out so complete that you couldn't even find your way back. I can't see (pardon the pun) that you're going to have anything at 4000 meters.At that time, in the sim the delayed tile pop-up in my route was so bad that I started over again with DEM's lowered 1000 meters. No problems of that sort since. Andy Miller has dropped his narrow gauge routes by 1500 meters, and I seem to remember that Don Karch dropped the Rollins Pass route considerably also. I'm pretty sure that Andre Ming also did this with his Colorado narrow gauge routes.Not too long ago, I raised a version of the Silverton 1000 meters to be compatible in altitude with Jonathan Lewis' RGS route. I then provided World and Tile files of the Durango area for inclusion in his route. TSUtils reported some LO_TILES errors (since repaired), but since Jonathan doesn't use DM's and I was not providing, this was not a problem. Errors with some carspawners were reported, but since I was deleting all interactives, this was also not a problem.The TDB and sound sources had no reported problems, but all the sound sources and a few odd pieces of the TDB (white tdb lines and blue poles) were left behind 1000 meters below grade. Repair of the sound sources was easy, but repair of the TBD was a little more problematic. I've since been able to do it though...I think that you should give TSUtils a try. You have a lot of altitude room down below you. I think you may be stuck with the "little white void" of this thread, and it might be the least of your visibility problems.regards,
charlie
EDIT: No re-DEMing required, TSUtils shifts the Tiles too...

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