Previous Topic | Next Topic

Sorry, I'm asking for help.I'm building my route. Laying sidings and passing tracks. But after laying some switches I found a strange problem:
When I open the same route in the AE to make paths for it, in certain locations, I cannot zoom in very much, because the AE freezes, and the Send/Don't Send message appears. It only happens in some specified points of the route in the A.E.
The DB rebuilt was already done and there was no problems with it.
I cannot realize what might be the problem.In the RE, everything seems to be OK.
But I'm afraid to continue, until I can find out what causes the problem.Thank you very much in advance.

Eduardo.
(My E-mail is in my profile)

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

RE: The AE crashes when I zoom in, in the route I'm bui, OTTODAD, May-24-04, 07:56 PM, (1) RE: The AE crashes when I zoom in, in the route I'm bui, edwardson, May-24-04, 08:15 PM, (2) RE: The AE crashes when I zoom in, in the route I'm bui, OTTODAD, May-24-04, 08:25 PM, (3) RE: The AE crashes when I zoom in, in the route I'm bui, edwardson, May-24-04, 09:02 PM, (4) RE: The AE crashes when I zoom in, in the route I'm bui, sniper297, May-25-04, 00:55 AM, (5) RE: The AE crashes when I zoom in, in the route I'm bui, edwardson, May-25-04, 01:34 PM, (8) RE: The AE crashes when I zoom in, in the route I'm bui, OTTODAD, May-25-04, 07:55 AM, (6) RE: The AE crashes when I zoom in, in the route I'm bui, LoneWolf, May-25-04, 01:05 PM, (7) RE: The AE crashes when I zoom in, in the route I'm bui, edwardson, May-25-04, 01:52 PM, (9) PROGRESS!!!!, sniper297, May-25-04, 04:09 PM, (10) RE: PROGRESS!!!!, OTTODAD, May-25-04, 06:09 PM, (11) RE: PROGRESS!!!!, edwardson, May-25-04, 07:15 PM, (12) RE: PROGRESS!!!!, OTTODAD, May-25-04, 08:30 PM, (14) It worked out! Fine! :), edwardson, Jun-02-04, 08:50 PM, (15) RE: It worked out! Fine! :), OTTODAD, Jun-02-04, 10:31 PM, (16) RE: It worked out! Fine! :), edwardson, Jun-02-04, 11:38 PM, (17) RE: It worked out! Fine! :), OTTODAD, Jun-03-04, 08:19 AM, (18) RE: It worked out! Fine! :), robertreedy, Jun-03-04, 09:01 AM, (19) RE: It worked out! Fine! :), OTTODAD, Jun-03-04, 05:31 PM, (20) RE: It worked out! Fine! :), robertreedy, Jun-03-04, 11:20 PM, (21) RE: It worked out! Fine! :), OTTODAD, Jun-04-04, 08:59 AM, (22) RE: It worked out! Fine! :), LoneWolf, Jun-04-04, 10:08 AM, (23) RE: It worked out! Fine! :), robertreedy, Jun-04-04, 08:50 PM, (24) RE: PROGRESS!!!!, edwardson, May-25-04, 07:20 PM, (13) RE: PROGRESS!!!!, sniper297, Jun-04-04, 11:19 PM, (25) RE: PROGRESS!!!!, Hobart, Jun-05-04, 00:05 AM, (26) RE: PROGRESS!!!!, LoneWolf, Jun-05-04, 00:18 AM, (27) RE: PROGRESS!!!!, edwardson, Jun-05-04, 00:30 AM, (28)

Conferences | Topics | Previous Topic | Next Topic

Hi Eduardo !You did not see my reply in another thread where I suggested that perhaps deleting all your existing Activities, Services and Paths and creating a new one might be the solution ?Sometimes after adding or re-laying tracks the Activities get confused ! Take Care, O t t o.

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Yes, Otto, I did read, thanks!I just posted this one, and I received the alert that I had message to read.
Our messages passed each other like two trains passing each other in the middel of two stations.
I'll try what you told me, I hope it can be an old activity.I aldo thought it could have been so because the route is very long and I had to zoom a lot to approach enough and see the track points.I find strange, that this happens in only a few points, not any, and I just used normal track pieces, like a1tPnt10dLft.s, a1tPnt10dRgt.s, a1tEndPnt10dLft.s, etc... and a1t100mStrt.s, and this are common track pieces, how can they cause problems like this?We'll meet in other posts...Regards....

Eduardo.
(My E-mail is in my profile)

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Hi Eduardo !I see that your are using a1tPnt10dLft.s, a1tPnt10dRgt.s switches which are "Automatic", not preferred by many Route builders like Jim Ward because of their limitations in Activities, not permitting to be used if a path has been set through them and the Player wants to go elsewhere.Just a thought ! Take Care, O t t o.

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Yes, I used automatic switches, so that the player train cannot take the wrong way, in order to drive it where it's supposed to do.
Do you think that could be part of the problem?
Well, I can change them in passing paths in a single track line, to give more flexibility to pass the AI trains;
But in double track routes, though I can use LeftPoint manual too, they're set so that the player cannot diverge anywhere, that is, the train first touches the frogs and then the spade. That's why in doubletrack lines they use mainly the PntLft switches, between both the main tracks, just for security, to avoid the risk of picking the wrong track and crash. Do you know what I mean?
If you recommend me to use manual switches, now I think it's a good idea, but later I can protect that switch using linked signals, what do you think?Little by little I go finding newer solutions..Thanks again
This will work

Eduardo.
(My E-mail is in my profile)

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

I don't think manual VS auto switches is the problem. When you're troubleshooting something like this you need to break it down into chunks to try and isolate the problem. I'm assuming you have tried this with different routes, and it only does it on the route you're building. So the first step is to move all the files out of the route's \Activities, \Paths, \Services, and \Traffic folders. You don't have to delete them, make backup copies or move them.Once the route is "clean", has no activities, services, paths, or traffic, open the activity editor, create a new activity, and before making a player service or anything else try zooming in and moving around.If the problem happens anyway, you'll know it has something to do with the route and not the activities.If it doesn't happen, make a new player service, make a new path, and try zooming in again.Problem, something wrong with the trackwork, most likely a reverse loop or a switch with nothing connected to the base.No problem, then the trouble is not with the route, it's with one of the activity, service, path, or traffic files you moved out.If you want to save those, try copying one set (.act, .pat, .srv, and .trf) back in, open that activity and see if you can duplicate the problem.

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Hello, Jim:Thank you. Your post is very clear and the explanation is very good.
So I'm approaching to the problem and the solution.I took away all the files related to activities: .ACT, .SRV, .PAT, and there was no TRF.
I opened the route in the A.E. and just the same. I tried to zoom in at the same place, I zoom in a little, and suddenly it freezes, waits, and gives me the Send/Don't send.So now I know the problem is in the route itself.
Cannot know the reason why, but hardly likely related to the switches. Though I also have problems where there switches that are well connected to other straight or curves single pieces. This is very strange, and it's worth analysing.
But what is worth, is the experience from people who suffered the same before, and knew the answer.I won't continue the route yet, but I'll try to isolate more the problem.I hope I can send you a positive answer very soon.Thanks; regards....

Eduardo.
(My E-mail is in my profile)

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Hi Eduardo !I prefer Jim's (SNIPER) FREESTYLE Activities, leaving it up to the Player to drive where he wants to, making sure that he pays attention to not go where no-one has gone before (a la Startrek ), or gets into the way of other Traffic.But Jim can tell you more about the Pros and Cons of using either ! Take Care, O t t o.

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

I experienced that same thing. I had a yard at the beginning of my tracklaying with only a 100m straight section preceding it. As my tracklaying progressed I would either edit the AE path or delete and recreate a new activity but AE would never once let me place a start point anywhere unless it was past that yard.I tried zooming in on the 100m piece to try to place the start point somewhere on it, before the yard, and AE crashed every time. All my switches are manual, the trackwork is all okay, and no errors in operation otherwise.It wasn't until I began extending the trackwork the other direction from the yard and that first 100m track section that I was finally able to place a start point on the other side of the yard with the endpoint somewhere in the other direction including that yard. And I was able to zoom in again without crashing. I have assumed AE won't let you place a start point before a switch if there isn't enough track preceding it to place a consist, even if it's just a locomotive.Anyway, once I placed more trackage in the other direction I haven't had any further problems. Maybe you have a similar situation?

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Lone Wolf:Yes, I have a very similar situation!
I'll bear in mind your post and also Jim's post, and I'll try to isolate the problem.This never happened to me before in other routes; though I had some minor problems when I had a single track, that splits into two forming a doubletrack, and after 200 metres join again into a one single track, using common switches. In those cases I had problems with some path points. Is there something wrong with this?I'll try to keep in touch and have you informed.Thanks for your post, and I promise you a good answer after I fix it.
Regards...

Eduardo.
(My E-mail is in my profile)

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Hee-hee, don't get discouraged, if you haven't found out what it is yet, you have at least isolated it by finding out what it isn't!1. Not the activity editor itself, or it would happen in other routes.
2. Not the existing activities, services, or paths.That leaves something specific to the route, and the most likely cause is this:Look for one of those, and connect at least a 10 meter straight section to it. MSTS isn't happy unless it finds a blue pole beyond any red pole:Good habit to get into is when you're laying large yards, if you place a crossover type switch with the second switch flipped, connect a 10 meter straight piece temporarily until you get back to finish the trackwork.If you get one of those problems where you can't select a piece of track in the route editor, "adjacent pieces not loaded" or whatever, remember that comes from the .tdb file. So if you delete the .tdb file and open the route, all the track sections are now static objects so you can select and delete them, then save, exit, delete the .tdb file again, and run the rebuild.

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

LAST EDITED ON May-25-04 AT 06:26 PM (EDT)

Hi Jim !Eduardo E-Mailed me a copy of this route he is working on and keeping in mind all I learned from you and others, working on difficult Routes myself, went from one end to the other in this rather long route in the RE, looking out for anything which is not as it should be, adding additional tracks to Switches leading nowhere, but none missing a track at the end you are showing in your picture.The TDB Re-build successful, I created a new Activity starting at the Eastern end of the route after deleting all the existing ones and browsed EAST-WEST without any problems, Zooming here and there to have a closer look for oddities but found none.After reaching the Western end I tried the same in reverse and BINGO, the AE froze and crashed.Gives me the thought that this could be the same problem which causes MSTS to crash driving WEST to EAST in long Routes ? What do you think ?Take Care, O t t o.P.S.: This is what it looks like in the Geometry Extrator:

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Hi, Otto:Thank you very much for all this help, by which I've learned a lot all these days.
I will do that:
I will rebuild all the route from East to West, step by step. I think it's the best way.
I'll use some manual a1tPnt10dMnl.s and the 6º Y-tracks switches and doubleslips.
I'll just use the modular a1tYPnt6d.s to do the Y's, only until the next Y-tracks is released.
Anyway I'll use Xtracks only for several curves, because I need some 1º curves, and I don't want to use dynamic tracks.
Before I begin I'll make some fine tuning to the markers, using the ones I've used for this route. The re-laying will be much easier now.
And then, step by step, little by little, and I hope the route lets me arrive to the far West without any other problems.I'll keep you informed of all,I'll send you news soon..Have a nice week, hope you'll be playing with my route soon, when it's finished..

Eduardo.
(My E-mail is in my profile)

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Eduardo, you got E-Mail and this was the solution.I removed the Western part of the route bit by bit until the AE was happy and stopped freezing.All you got to do is to relay the missing part going West, checking it every so often along the way with TDB Re-Builds and a re-done Activity. Happy ? BACK-UP !!!Take Care, O t t o.

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Hi, Otto:I'm back now.
Today I finished making all again from the second station on, towards the west.
After seven days laying track, I made all, I laid the tracks of all the route. Now it works fine, and the AE doesn't freeze anymore. This time I made all sequentially, from the East to the West.I'm really thinking that my former problem last week might be also due to have double track for many miles without switches, in more than 40 miles.
It makes no sense to put first the main tracks and then start deleting track pieces to install the switches and build the stations.I have to admit my error.
As this is the first time that I build a very long route, I cannot ignore these things.Thank you very much for all your help, and with some luck, I'll have my route finished soon, the sooner the better..Greetings! Today I can be happy. Now I'll be able to continue, laying objects, signals, and roads.Tomorrow I'll begin the second phase of the project.

Eduardo.
(My E-mail is in my profile)

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Hi Eduardo !I am glad you are back in the swing of things again ! We all have been through these learning stages, but not at the scale you decided to make your first project ! Anyway, you are over the hump now, but don't forget to do your BACK-UPs and check the TDB now and then ! Finish all your track layouts before putting down roads and interactive track objects, said to cause problems if tracks are being changed afterwards. Objects, trees and forests should be O.K.Roman has added another first-left/second-right 3-Way Switch to complement the first-right/second-left and figured out a way to include a node into the crossover section of the Slips. Pretty soon you will get the full, completed versions of all Y-Tracks to update any unfinished pieces you may have used.Good luck and Take Care, O t t o.

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Hi, Otto:I wasn't aware that the track objects like platforms, should be laid after all the track. After laying all the tracks of every station, I was putting the platforms and/or sidings. And then the next station, and so on.
I was lucky that I had no other problems.What a good news!
when you said:
...a way to include a node into the crossover section of the Slips... Did you mean that he'll make the spades that are in the middle of the crossover, to avoid derailment?
Roman told me that he liked to do that, but it's hard to reproduce in the MSTS. It would be very realistic; but how can you manage to change the position of the blades? Greetings...

Eduardo.
(My E-mail is in my profile)

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

LAST EDITED ON Jun-03-04 AT 08:26 AM (EDT)

Hi Eduardo !Platforms are not "Interactive" objects and in any case need tracks to put them alongside ! It's road crossings with barriers, signals, sound regions, etc, which cause problems after tracks are being re-laid, I read about frequently in the Fora.O t t oP.S.: Nodes are only visible to the Tracks Data Base and you can see them in the AE as black dots sitting on the track lines wherever there is a Switch, Crossover or End-of-Line. They are used by the TDB to do various calculations such as distance between them and affect Signalling, others can explain better than me ! O t t o

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

"Platforms are not "Interactive" objects and in any case need tracks to put them alongside"Otto, I'm following you around again Eduardo, This is one item that needs correction. I lost a couple of weeks work and almost completely lost the route due to a "platform marker" that shifted due to a tdb rebuild. I had it too close to the buffer (which I've found is a mistake in itself) and after doing a rebuild, it slid off the end and would not let me in the RE at all and crashed the Sim everytime I hit close to that point. Finally ended up chopping up the world file to remove it, which was an experience in itself. It is an interactive object just as much as any of the others (usually slightly less volatile, but not always) and I would only put one in on a temporary basis to check mileage or something of that nature then remove it before going on. Learned the hard way, but your mileage may vary RobertR .. ADF-M&RM at http://www.adfrr.com

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Bob,you are referring to the "Platform Markers" on the tracks ? Also applies to "Sidings" markers ?I was referring to the platform objects next to the track, being part of a station and it's buildings objects. Are they going to be a problem if the track is altered ?O t t o

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Otto, sorry I must have misread what you said. Scenery objects as a general rule will not cause any problems any more than anything else. It's only the interactive objects (objects that depend on track location to be accurate) that can tend to cause severe problems. This would include siding/platform markers, speed limit signs, mile markers, SIGNALS (the worst of the bunch in my opinion), pickups, etc., since I'm probably missing a few off the top of my head. Some people will swear up and down that MMarkers and platforms/siding markers don't make any difference, but they sure have in my case. That's where I came up with the phantom MMarkers and phantom signal in V2. As Kip has always said .. the RE is just waiting to bite you in the 'posterior' at the first opportunity and will do it in a heartbeat. Maybe I'm a bit overcautious, bu why give it a headstart RobertR .. ADF-M&RM at http://www.adfrr.com

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Yes Rob, I too am overcautious, reading all about the problems more experienced guys like you have had, learning from their experiences and then try to avoid them.Signalling is "Greek" to me as it is ! Hope that Eduardo does not fall into some of these traps, having had to re-do his route once already ! Take Care, O t t o.

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Ahhhhhh, okay I've been holding off placing anything other than trackage because I had been under the impression that it was unwise to add anything else until all the trackwork was layed (laid?).So it would be okay to add trees and/or forest regions as I go? And maybe texture the terrain closer to the track with something different? After laying close to 100 miles of track and only a third done, going back in day after day to do nothing other than lay track is becoming less and less appealing, heheh. A change would be as good as a rest to keep the old interest up.It would also add some more visual interest when I run the route checking things out or when making movies of what I've done so far.

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

There may be many varied opinions on this, but I've had no problem laying track, doing texture patches and adding most types of object as I go .. in that order. The things to stay away from are the "interactive" objects mentioned above. Also, there is somewhat of an anomoly here .. I did about 45 miles when I first started, then thinking the route was complete went ahead and added everything to finish it. Decided to add some to the length and just removed the very end 'interactive' objects and then continued from there. Have done this quite a few times with few if any problems caused by that. The thing to be careful of is if you go back and try to add/break something in the middle .. for example breaking the mainline to add a siding. That's also where some problems can take their toll. Usually there is not much to worry about if you are working from the 'ends' of the route. However, as said above .. your mileage may vary RobertR .. ADF-M&RM at http://www.adfrr.com

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Jim:Thanks a lot!
You also lent me a great hand with this.
Thanks for the trick about deleting the .TDB file and rebuilding.I'll start all again from the beginning. But this time everything will be placed at the right position.I hope this time it works!

Eduardo.
(My E-mail is in my profile)

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Here's the acid test:If you try to place it off the track and get that message, it's an interactive track object. That does indeed apply to fueling points, siding and platform markers, and anything else that has to be placed directly on the track or on a road section.Problem here is if you have to do a TDB rebuild and you have a powerful computer with a lot of RAM (thanks again, Otto! ), you'll lose all the interactive objects when you run the rebuild. If you have a Celeron with 64mB RAM it'll just lock up.Any object that you can place OFF the track is okay at any time, this is because track objects go into the \World\.w files (for visual reference) and the TDB and TIT files, and all three files must be in synch. Static objects go only into the \World\.w files and nowhere else, so it's impossible for thwm to get out of synch and screw anything up.
Here's the new Texas Tea on PO&N9, Bill's refinery objects and clones of Enocell's oil tanks went in right alongside the track, necessary so you can see where the track will fit. Since they are all static objects, it doesn't bother the TDB rebuild or get anything out of sequence.

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Sniper, Love yer train sim icon, its a dandy

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Great! Thanks for that explanantion.

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Jim:After your posts of that time, I made all my route again from the beginning, and this time it worked fine.
Now I also had that problem of "cannot create here"; but just once.
In these days, after having laid my track again, I'll have to follow through the same steps: roads, platforms, objects, etc...
So this information is very useful, to bear in mind many things, and the order to follow.I liked your screenshot! I think that place is real, isn't it?
I don't know Texas, but one my fantasies is to have a route that runs there, but simulating old times.
I'd like to know a list of all the routes for MSTS that run through Texas, so I will ask that in another post; or if you want to recommend me some, please E-mail me.Thank for all your posts, and have a nice weekend!

Eduardo.
(My E-mail is in my profile)

Alert | IP

[ Home | MSTS Forum | MSTS FAQ | File Library ] Copyright © 2004 by Nels Anderson. All Rights Reserved.