Double slip narrow gauge for Xtrack

Gentle Mr. Okrasa Ghia I'm asking you if you can add this double slip narrow gauge, in the next release of Xtracks.
I've tried to solve the problem on how to place a double slip stand, but can't solve it with signals.
I've thought to build from zero this section: it is 12°, total simmetric, 12 metres on each straight section.
Since I need an automatic one, no problem to build another one without the stand, so that you can insert it in Xtracks as a manual one, for others people...
Please if any problem occurs, contact me here or by e.mail at max.calvi@inwind.it
Feel free to criticize it... Here you can download it to open with shape viewer: http://www.amicitreni.net/Public/data/merlino/200449124136_N1tDblSlip12d.zipThanks a lot as always, best regards, max

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RE: Double slip narrow gauge for Xtrack..., OTTODAD, Apr-09-04, 08:03 AM, (1) RE: Double slip narrow gauge for Xtrack..., merlin78, Apr-09-04, 09:31 AM, (2) RE: Double slip narrow gauge for Xtrack..., OTTODAD, Apr-09-04, 10:28 AM, (3) RE: Double slip narrow gauge for Xtrack..., merlin78, Apr-09-04, 12:37 PM, (4) RE: Double slip narrow gauge for Xtrack..., merlin78, Apr-09-04, 01:49 PM, (5) PERFECTION, OTTODAD, Apr-09-04, 03:51 PM, (6) RE: PERFECTION, merlin78, Apr-10-04, 03:20 AM, (7) RE: PERFECTION, OTTODAD, Apr-10-04, 07:33 AM, (8) RE: PERFECTION, merlin78, Apr-13-04, 04:42 PM, (9) RE: PERFECTION, OTTODAD, Apr-13-04, 05:24 PM, (10) RE: PERFECTION, merlin78, Apr-14-04, 01:35 PM, (11) RE: PERFECTION, OkrasaGhia, Apr-14-04, 01:44 PM, (12) RE: PERFECTION, merlin78, Apr-15-04, 04:09 AM, (13) RE: PERFECTION, merlin78, Apr-15-04, 04:45 AM, (14) RE: PERFECTION, Roman, Apr-15-04, 07:54 AM, (15) RE: Double slip narrow gauge for Xtrack..., CumbresEngineer, Apr-15-04, 12:33 PM, (16) RE: Double slip narrow gauge for Xtrack..., merlin78, Apr-15-04, 02:29 PM, (17) RE: Double slip narrow gauge for Xtrack..., OTTODAD, Apr-15-04, 03:35 PM, (18) RE: Double slip narrow gauge for Xtrack..., merlin78, Apr-16-04, 03:37 AM, (19) RE: Double slip narrow gauge for Xtrack..., OTTODAD, Apr-16-04, 04:35 PM, (20)

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Great looking Double-Slip, Max !!! But as Okrasa and Jürgen (Y-Tracks) know well, I am TRACKS FREAK and rather fussy about their appearance, especially Points and if you do not mind constructive comments would like to suggest you have a look at this and if possible correct it:The Point Blade end is too fat and the Curved Stock Rail next to it is out of line with the Straight.Here the GREAT looking Point Blade is not touching the Stock Rail, as are others at the other end.Another question you might be able to answer, being a Narrow Gauge Specialist , is what the overall height of Italian Narrow Gauge is, from the deck up to the top of the rails.Trying to line up the N1t pieces with D1t is impossible due to the Stock Rails of the Narrow Gauge being lower than the Standard Gauge ones. In the States much Narrow Gauge uses this lower Profile, I am being told, but in Switzerland the Narrow Gauge Rails are the same Profile as Standard Gauge Rails where Dual-Gauge lines are in use.How does this work in Italy !Thinking about creating a SWISS SCENIC RAILWAY ROUTE using Dual-Gauge Tracks in places would need Narrow Gauge Rails and Points using Standard Gauge Rails ! Would appreciate your and other's comments !O t t o

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I must beg your pardon OTTO, since my texture wich is darker and more simmetric doesn't reveals this errors.
About the blade, that's ok, I'll cut and place it better.
About the aligning, I've build it just to follow the N1t6mStrt.s as you can see in this pic where they are placed side by side; the rail section is 0.09 wide x 0.075 height...
Sorry, I don't know section dimensions of italian narrow gauge rails.
I might think they are like in switzerland...
Anyway no dual-gauge tracks are present on the bernina line...!!
I'm going to correct the double slip, see you later when I'll finish the work. bye bye, max

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Hi Max !No the BERNINA does not use Double-Gauge Tracks at your end in Tirano, but when it gets to the Main Line in CHUR there are places where it does. The same where the GLACIER EXPRESS runs parallel with Main Line for a while. Looks from your picture that these are also Standard Gauge Rails ?O t t oP.S.: HAPPY EASTER !!! As for mis-alignment this is what my Eagle-Eyes spotted ! In a real track this could be enough to cause a derailment !Otherwise the Rails and in particular the FROGS look perfect and the animation is REAL !!!

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LAST EDITED ON Apr-09-04 AT 01:29 PM (EDT)

I swear it's not a problem of bad aligning but of texturing, since the texture has shadow, and placing it bad could seems that rails are not aligned... this because I painted with no shadowed Ncleantrack2...
Regards, max

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Try this please. Regards, max

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LAST EDITED ON Apr-09-04 AT 04:18 PM (EDT)

Excellent, Max, 20 out of 10, Love it !!! I knew you can do it, just needed a bit of prodding from Uncle Ottodad ! Will be interesting testing them and see how you managed to get all Blades moving simultaneously, like I said they should and still not confuse MSTS as to how to PATH Trains through them, being able to allow only 2 Paths per Switch, considering there are 4 in a Double-Slip ! They will of course need matching End Pieces and fit into the existing Narrow Gauge Multi-Track Geometry ! Can't see any 12° Left or Right Switches to connect them too ! More work for you ? If you like you can E-Mail me an amended Tsection.dat if you know how to Edit it to include your Double-Slips and I shall test them for you ! If they work as they should then I am looking forward to seeing them and more of your work included in the next release of XTracks and the Tsection.dat. I am sure the "N-Gaugers" will appreciate them, filling another gap in the range !TAKE CARE, O t t o.P.S.: I shouldn't worry too much about Automatic Versions, the majority of Developers preferring MANUAL ones anyway ! The Switch Indicator being another brilliant piece of work I would leave in with the Automatic version, should you decided to provide one. Too good not to have it showing and working like the real thing !

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ehm... thank you, but I don't care about multy-track geometry;
even don't know what lines add to tsection.dat, I hope Okrasa could do this, I never thought it could exist a double slip in MSTS until I saw A1tDblSlip3d, too...!!
Let's hope Okrasa could help us...
Regards and a Happy Easter to everybody... max

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Max,have a look at Jürgen's (ROMAN) Y-Tracks Double-Slip assembly, complete with Wing and Check Rails. Downloading them from the File Library and looking into their .s Files could give you a few tips about how he did it ! He had to use 4 individual Switches / Points to make them work and all their Paths being accepted by the TDB. The same principle as used by Okrasa's Modular Switches Double-Slip assembly.HAPPY EASTER, O t t o.

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Grrrrr...!! I've done all but it seems not to work...
I've asked Okrasa but he told me not to guess on double slip sections, they seem not to work properly on activities.
As always I'm a stupid stubborn boy so I've learnt to modify the tsection.dat file myself, and it seems to work good but...
the animation of the double slip works only if approaching by the default side, by the main path...
I've written the paths as shown in the pic: the blue and the violet are of the double slip while red and green are other false track section that I place in the R.E. just to connect the paths.
This is the tsection.dat lines... track seciton 340 is violet 3 meters straight while 341 is the blue one: TrackShape ( 78
FileName ( n1tDblSlip12d.s )
NumPaths ( 8 )
MainRoute ( 1 )
ClearanceDist ( 26 )
SectionIdx ( 1 0 0 0 0 340 )
SectionIdx ( 1 0 0 0 0 341 )
SectionIdx ( 1 -1.2474 0 11.8688 168 340 )
SectionIdx ( 1 -1.2474 0 11.8688 168 342 )
SectionIdx ( 1 0 0 12 180 340 )
SectionIdx ( 1 0 0 12 180 341 )
SectionIdx ( 1 1.2474 0 0.1311 -12 340 )
SectionIdx ( 1 1.2474 0 0.1311 -12 342 )
ManualJunctionShape ( )
)Has anybody a suggestion to solve this problem...?
Does it work right the animation of a1tdblslip10d.s...?
Why it has nine paths...?!
thank a lot, max

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I admire you stubbornness, Max !Many great inventions and work-arounds have been provoked by somebody saying "It can't be done" ! If you can find a way to force the MSTS Tracks Database to accept a single piece Double-Slip's four Switches to create two paths through it, with all Blades either straight or all Blades leading into Curves so that Activities can run a Path through them correctly, then I rank you on a par with Einstein ! Okrasa and Jürgen are using 4 separate Switches to make up Double-Slips, which the Tsection.dat and the Tracks Database seems to have no problems with, Activities being able to create Paths through them for Player and AI trains alike.I got a feeling that you will not give up until you cracked this nut ! I hope you do, then we could all have Double-Slips with their blades moving synchronised in pairs like yours, with proper tie-bars, etc ! Intermittently, working on trying to solve the problem, see whether you can run an Activity Path through the Double-Switch and "Take the other Exit" and see what happens until you hit the Jack-Pot ! Good Luck, O t t o.

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LAST EDITED ON Apr-14-04 AT 01:47 PM (EDT)

I've tried Okrasa's a1tDblSlip10d.s but as mine it has the same problem: the animation works only if you approach from the main path.
And now I have some doubt that i could win my battle...
Grrr...!!
Well I'll think a bit more...
Regards, max
P.S.: maybe another crazy idea: four switches as okrasa does, then a false switch stand like hank sundermayer one, but it has the double slip shape and animation, but the four switches are transparent and so... uuhhhhhh...!!! if it works....!!!

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LAST EDITED ON Apr-14-04 AT 01:45 PM (EDT)

Been away over Easter, that's why I have not jumped in before.
Have to admire your determination Max but unfortunately this is exactly the same road I went down before doing the modular switches instead.
Doing the animated shape is easy enough if you know your 3D program but MSTS does not understand it. MSTS was not designed by Kuju to have more than one point per section. This shows in the animation problem you are experiencing but there are even worse problems when you get to activities. I think Teemu Saukkonen (Enocell) could tell you about those. Doing each of the four points in the double slip it's own section solves the problem and adding a fifth crossing section in the middle takes care of identifying crossing paths and avoids overlapping section joints (another thing to avoid in MSTS).
With this it looks like you're back on square one. Shape looks nice but MSTS won't understand it correctly and cutting it apart you are no better of than you were with my modular switches as concerning the switch stand and its operation.Why it has eight paths...?! (not nine)
Because it is four points with straight and curved path for each. Doing it the logical way with two straight paths across and two curved paths for the diverging routes MSTS crashed (as usual)! I think MSTS does not like when a path for a single section both splits in one end and joins again at the other end. The above paths only splits in one end having the other end loose.PS the a1tDblSlip10d has the same animation problem you do.


//Okrasa
Chief Engineer
okrasa @ xtracks.tk
http://www.geocities.com/okrasaghia
http://www.xtracks.tk

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I'm sure that what happens in the track database file is that just one of this four false switches calls the animation of the object n1tDblSlip12d.s, while the other three are linked don't know what to...
Is there a way to modify the track database so that all works fine...?
this is the track database part of the file that contains theese four paths as you can see they are nodes 393,415,418,423; while the track vector 432,428,434,427 allow to connect the four switches...
The 768 is the double slip shape taht as you can see stands on the -5762 14668 tile...

* * * * * * * * * * * * *TrackNode ( 415
TrJunctionNode ( 0 78 0 )
UiD ( -5762 14668 768 6 -5762 14668 891.699 1772.9 -894.426 0 -0.806895 0 )
TrPins ( 1 2
TrPin ( 416 1 )
TrPin ( 432 1 )
TrPin ( 434 1 )
)
)
TrackNode ( 418
TrJunctionNode ( 0 78 0 )
UiD ( -5762 14668 768 9 -5762 14668 901.133 1772.9 -901.736 0 2.12526 0 )
TrPins ( 1 2
TrPin ( 419 1 )
TrPin ( 428 0 )
TrPin ( 434 0 )
)
)
TrackNode ( 393
TrJunctionNode ( 0 78 1 )
UiD ( -5762 14668 768 0 -5762 14668 900.365 1772.9 -902.727 0 2.3347 0 )
TrPins ( 1 2
TrPin ( 408 0 )
TrPin ( 432 0 )
TrPin ( 427 1 )
)
)
TrackNode ( 423
TrJunctionNode ( 0 78 0 )
UiD ( -5762 14668 768 3 -5762 14668 890.931 1772.9 -895.418 0 -1.01633 0 )
TrPins ( 1 2
TrPin ( 424 1 )
TrPin ( 428 1 )
TrPin ( 427 0 )
)
)

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no there's no way to solve the problme in this way, since I've discovered myself that is the JNodePosn ( -5762 14668 900.365 1772.9 -902.727 )line in the .w file that refers for each swicht to what junciotn node it refers to, so it is impossible that a shape file is linked to more than one juction node... I'll keep on trying if I'm able to build it as a signal...
Anybody knows how to contact hank sundermeyer...?!
I've tried by email but did'nt had anser... Regards, max

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Welcome aboard, MaxLearning the hard way takes some time, but the results are uncompared....Regards, Roman

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Impressive, but rare. Atleast in America.Kevin Bush,

I will have my hand on the throttle of a K-36 very soon Mon Freunds!

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Swiss or Italian Narrow Gauge, Max ?Look like standard gauge profile rails like used in Switzerland and not in MSTS and the States, using a smaller profile, making things complicated where Narrow Gauge has to join and share Standard Gauge Tracks and Track beds = Dual-Gauge !These Double-Slips move their blades in pairs, independently at either end, like LGB GAUGE-G Double slips. Märklin HO Double-Slips move their blades like your's do, all straight or all curved.O t t o

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LAST EDITED ON Apr-16-04 AT 03:39 AM (EDT)

Swiss narrow gauge, please OTTO tell me everuthing you know, since I must admit I'm not so expert 'bout swiss rail profile...
It was better if I used ukn finescale set of tracks...? or something else...?
Anyway as I've already told you on bernina bahn there are no double gauge sections so...
Thanks a lot, maxP.S.: I'm trying convincing Hank to study our case...

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LAST EDITED ON Apr-16-04 AT 05:12 PM (EDT)

Max,the guy who is the Expert on Swiss 1 metre Gauge is Lukas, aka SWISSIE.Find one of his messages and I am sure he might have a live E-Mail link you could use to send him a message asking direct questions.If not then post a Message here, paging him !O t t oP.S.: Just remembered getting this picture from the Web some time ago, clearly showing Swiss Double Gauge Tracks, obviously all rails being standard gauge profile. As I said before, perhaps your part of the BERNINA has no Double Gauge Tracks but it does cross and merge with Standard Gauge on the Landquart, Buchs and beyond stretches where 1 metre Gauge runs parallel with Standard Gauge.MSTS also uses standard gauge profile tracks for "Double Gauge" but the MSTS Narrow Gauge rails do not match them and are too low ! Had to SHAPE FILE MANAGER "SHIFT" the Rails up to bring them level with the Standard Gauge rails but can't do much about their thickness.

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