Flying trees !

Hi allA friend has a problem :
he has trees flying all over his route.
Cannot duplicate it.If I remember well, Sniper had addressed this, but I can't trace the thread back..Can anybody help ?Love and Peace

OldieDaddy from Alsace

Visit also www.the-train.de !

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RE: Flying trees !, OTTODAD, Dec-03-03, 08:48 AM, (1) RE: Flying trees !, calr, Dec-03-03, 09:10 AM, (2) RE: Flying trees !, oldiedaddy, Dec-03-03, 09:18 AM, (3) RE: Flying trees !, calr, Dec-03-03, 11:10 AM, (4) RE: Flying trees !, mdeming, Dec-03-03, 11:20 AM, (5) RE: Flying trees !, oldiedaddy, Dec-03-03, 01:03 PM, (6) RE: Flying trees !, calr, Dec-03-03, 02:43 PM, (7) RE: Flying trees !, MikeSimpson, Dec-03-03, 06:31 PM, (8) RE: Flying trees !, sniper297, Dec-03-03, 11:17 PM, (9) RE: Flying trees !, Railfan727, Dec-04-03, 04:50 PM, (10) RE: Flying trees !, OTTODAD, Dec-04-03, 04:59 PM, (11) RE: Flying trees !, oldiedaddy, Dec-04-03, 05:51 PM, (12) RE: Flying trees !, dmikulec, Dec-04-03, 10:53 PM, (14) RE: Flying trees !, mttcrlsn, Dec-04-03, 08:37 PM, (13) RE: Flying trees !, jdtrainman, Dec-04-03, 11:43 PM, (15) RE: Flying trees !, bobs, Dec-05-03, 05:54 PM, (16) RE: Flying trees !, oldiedaddy, Dec-05-03, 07:02 PM, (17)

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Hi Moritz !I had that problem too, usually when using Groups of Trees on uneven terrain. A "work-around" is to lower the trees until none of them "Fly". But that could "bury" some of the group trees into the ground " It's only "FORESTS" where all the trees self-align onto uneven ground.The only way to get multiple individual trees positioned perpendicular at ground level is to place each one individually with H & N as far as I know. O t t o

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If you replicate groups of individual trees by selecting multiple trees, copying, and pasting, you can get this problem. The solution in this case is to select each tree individually after replicating and use F3, "H", and "N" to automatically adjust the height. Note that this applies to any group of replicated objects.Another cause of floating objects is adjusting the terrain after planting. The solution is the same.If you use any of the clumps of trees and bushes, you can't adjust the individual trees.Cal Rasmussen
Beaverton, OR
(My email is in my profile)Columbia Gorge Route (Phase 1-- BNSF side DONE! UP side 98%)

Attachments
http://www.train-sim.com/dcforum/User_files/I

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LAST EDITED ON Dec-03-03 AT 09:20 AM (EST)

What I don't understand:
no problem on my own machine...
Could it be related with graphic card ?
I have a Geforce 4 MX440 128, friend a Hercules 9800 128And there are NO trees where he sees them !
Saw a screeshot : he was not drunk...Love and Peace

OldieDaddy from Alsace

Visit also www.the-train.de !

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LAST EDITED ON Dec-03-03 AT 11:11 AM (EST)

Check all the setting in the sim. Push all the sliders to the right and see if this clears things up. The problem might be error bias and shifting terrain.Bill Burnett had a problem with a floating house on top of a hill in Sea View 3. All the beta testers could see it but Bill couldn't see it. He finally deleted the house because he couldn't reproduce the problem. I think it could be video card related.Cal Rasmussen
Beaverton, OR
(My email is in my profile)Columbia Gorge Route (Phase 1-- BNSF side DONE! UP side 98%)

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I had that trouble with the CGW after I used Route Riter to make the zip file. The beta testers did not have that problem, it only showed up after making the zip problem. My thinking is to use forest objects on sloping terrain rather than tree clumps. Also the display settings do have a lot to do with it. I have seen floating roads then gone back in the editor and found that the road is not floating it was the settings.
Mike

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Here's a pic. Strange, not ?And thee are NO trees there !Love and Peace

OldieDaddy from Alsace

Visit also www.the-train.de !

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Thanks for including the screenshot. Now that I have seen it, disregard everything that has been said. That definitely looks like a video card problem. Not only are the trees flying but the track and train are distorted as well. Make sure you have the latest drivers for your card and the latest version of DirectX (9.0b, I think). Also, run the dxdiag program to test DirectX.Cal Rasmussen
Beaverton, OR
(My email is in my profile)Columbia Gorge Route (Phase 1-- BNSF side DONE! UP side 98%)

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Hi OldieDaddy,Suggest he uncompressed the .W file in question using ffeditc_Unicode.exe - This was a problem which occurred with early versions of Route-Riter which used ffeditc_unicode.exe - Only happened when you uncompressed a .w file which was over 512k uncompressed, i.e. they had a lot of scenery in them.This caused some early routes to appear on some machines with towns floating upside down in the sky.
Mike

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The GM&O route (all versions) had that problem, on my computer but not on my son's. ATI Radeon 9700 PRO did this:But not on the GEFORCE 4 Ti-4400. New drivers might or might not help, *&^%$#! ATI traditionally cranks out bleeding edge video cards, then makes drivers that actually work about a year or two later. I tried the latest catalyst from ATI last weekend, had to uninstall and go back to 6.14 since the newest won't work at all for me. Could be a Microsoft problem, DXDIAG tells me "The file directx.cpl is a debug version, which will run slower than the retail version." Dunno where I got that, but downloading the latest DX runtime from the official MS website, it tells me the files THAT is trying to install are "not compatible" and/or not digitally signed, so MS winXP won't install MS directX from the official MS website.

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Have you been hacking your world files?I experienced something similar to this on Conrail Indy when I tried to use Paul Fowler's "tile stacking" method to get around the per-tile object limit. It appears that the ViewDBSpheres and VDBIDs got messed up somehow.If you want to get around the object limit, here's another method that's a lot less risky: Make all the changes you want to the "overloaded" tile, go to another tile, make a change there, and save! That's all there is to it. And you won't get send/don't send on saving.Bruce Bridges

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Where have you been lately, Jim ?Been missing your educating and entertaining contributions like this one ! O t t o

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Thanks all !Yes, I remembered Sniper's flying trees.Seems that 2 probs are occuring:1.-The compress/decompress of large W files with FFEDIT_code (3 of them exceed 512KB).
All W files have this bracket cascade at the end of ViewDBSphere (...2.-Maybe Radeon on top. 3.-Nermal is giving me a hand in repairing the mess (place & delete objects). Will revert when all fine !Love and Peace

OldieDaddy from Alsace

Visit also www.the-train.de !

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Oh my ... you mean to tell me that my route is NOT supposed to look like that?!? "It's not a bug, it's a feature".--
Dave Mikulec
(former Charter Member)
"the Ohio Southeastern - NKP Project"

Route homepage:
http://bellsouthpwp.net/d/m/dmikulec/OSES/index.html

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LAST EDITED ON Dec-04-03 AT 08:37 PM (EST)

The problem is MSTS can't handle some higher DirectX 3D settings on the ATI cards. I don't remember which one it was but is was the Anti-Aliasing or Anisotropic Filtering as I recall. Do a search on flying trees and it should turn up here.--
Matt, Network Specialist
Herrington (BNSF milepost 295)
La Crosse, Wisconsin

Hills, Prairies & Rivers Route

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This is definitely the ATI video card problem. Somebody mentioned the old GM&O route specifically and I can verify that same problem happening on my "play" computer which has an ATI Radeon card in it but the same issue does NOT happen on the NVidia cards in the machine I do development with.I observed strange goings-on with buildings that appeared identical to the screen grab posted below in the same general area....I believe it has a lot to do with the amount of polys used and the ATI cards have issues when you start taxing their limits.JBD

Jim Duncan
Midwest Rail Group

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It isn't just trees that could fly, but any object, and the root of the problem is indeed a bug in the code used to compress an uncompressed world file, FFEDIT. Whether or not it shows up on a particular computer seems to have to do with the graphics card, sim graphics settings, and perhaps some other things. But fixing the world file fixes the problem. The graphics cards/settings just change the problem. I have experienced this with an nVidia card, so it isn't just ATI.Another symptom of this is a crash of the sim (not the editor) as you approach a spot that has a corrupted world file. Not every computer does it because of graphics settings. Marias Pass 3.1 had one tile with this problem (fixed in one of the three fixes I released) but not everyone saw the problem. On the tile in question, I could drive down the track just fine, but others crashed, so it the symptoms differ from system to system.You can edit the offending tile, move some object slightly and resave the tile to get rid of the problem. When saved, MSTS formats the file correctly. Your world file will then be umcompressed though. Whatever you do, don't use FFEDIT natively to recompress the world files.Bob Siederer
Co-author of Marias Pass 3.1

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Hi all !Thanks VERY MUCH to you all contributors to this thread, for your very accurate and extremely helpful comments/suggestions;With your invaluable help,
The nut is now cracked.Redone ALL world files 1 by 1.
Just added/saved/removed a dummy object in EVERY *.W
Took a while (3-4 hrs, for 130 km or so), but no more bugs !No problems any more, meanwhile confirmed by three Radeon Card users (Radeon Siemens FSC, standard Radeon 7000, Radeon 9800 Hercules 128).Allow me again to warmly thank all of you here, YOU together with your dedicated input led me to THE critical point.
Special thanks to
Cal (always ready to help, when does YOUR route go public?),
Mike (RR improving daily),
and Jim (Sniper, MSTS wd be boring w/o you !)

As soon as fine tuned (1-2 weeks), you should enjoy NIEDERELBEBAHN on the link below, & possibly here.Builders, have you tried SView by Paul Gausden ?
Best thing since sliced bread, never managed texturing/repainting so accurately & conveniently ! Thanks, 'Decapopd' !Love and Peace

OldieDaddy from Alsace

Visit also www.the-train.de !

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