Moffat Tunnel and Tabernash to Craig Routes

There were a few people working on routes in Colorado, specifically the route from Denver through the Moffat Tunnel and the section of that route from Tabernash to Craig, Colorado. Has anybody heard about their progress on these routes?

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RE: Moffat Tunnel and Tabernash to Craig Routes, markhyams, Nov-23-03, 09:15 PM, (1) RE: Moffat Tunnel and Tabernash to Craig Routes, cn_bayview, Nov-23-03, 09:17 PM, (2) RE: Moffat Tunnel and Tabernash to Craig Routes, Hack, Nov-23-03, 09:48 PM, (3) RE: Moffat Tunnel and Tabernash to Craig Routes, delamate, Nov-24-03, 11:06 AM, (4) RE: Moffat Tunnel and Tabernash to Craig Routes, markhyams, Nov-24-03, 11:11 AM, (5) RE: Moffat Tunnel and Tabernash to Craig Routes, WestSlopeRRfan, Nov-24-03, 11:31 PM, (11) RE: Moffat Tunnel and Tabernash to Craig Routes, jonathanmlewis, Nov-24-03, 11:30 AM, (6) RE: Moffat Tunnel and Tabernash to Craig Routes, bwaterman, Nov-24-03, 05:30 PM, (10) RE: Moffat Tunnel and Tabernash to Craig Routes, erielackawanna, Nov-27-03, 03:59 PM, (13) RE: Moffat Tunnel and Tabernash to Craig Routes, markhyams, Nov-27-03, 09:21 PM, (14) RE: Moffat Tunnel and Tabernash to Craig Routes, geoffmayo, Nov-24-03, 02:39 PM, (7) RE: Moffat Tunnel and Tabernash to Craig Routes, geoffmayo, Nov-24-03, 02:43 PM, (8) RE: Moffat Tunnel and Tabernash to Craig Routes, markhyams, Nov-24-03, 02:55 PM, (9) RE: Moffat Tunnel and Tabernash to Craig Routes, landnrailroader, Nov-25-03, 06:29 PM, (12) RE: Moffat Tunnel and Tabernash to Craig Routes, westerngy, Nov-28-03, 00:07 AM, (15) RE: Moffat Tunnel and Tabernash to Craig Routes, dwkarch, Dec-04-03, 10:04 PM, (16) RE: Moffat Tunnel and Tabernash to Craig Routes, dwkarch, Dec-04-03, 10:18 PM, (17) RE: Moffat Tunnel and Tabernash to Craig Routes, markhyams, Dec-05-03, 00:27 AM, (18) RE: Moffat Tunnel and Tabernash to Craig Routes, dwkarch, Dec-05-03, 11:17 AM, (20) RE: Moffat Tunnel and Tabernash to Craig Routes, dwkarch, Dec-05-03, 11:46 AM, (22) RE: Moffat Tunnel and Tabernash to Craig Routes, delamate, Dec-05-03, 09:22 AM, (19) RE: Moffat Tunnel and Tabernash to Craig Routes, dwkarch, Dec-05-03, 11:24 AM, (21) RE: Moffat Tunnel and Tabernash to Craig Routes, bwaterman, Dec-05-03, 07:17 PM, (23) RE: Moffat Tunnel and Tabernash to Craig Routes, WestSlopeRRfan, Dec-05-03, 07:23 PM, (24) RE: Moffat Tunnel and Tabernash to Craig Routes, markhyams, Dec-19-03, 02:58 AM, (25)

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As noted in my signature, I've been hacking away at that route for over a year and a half now. All I've been doing is laying track, and then running trains. I have too much of an idea of what the route looks like, so as a result I am very content running trains through bare, green terrain, which has slowed progress drastically. I've also been working on getting the Phippsburg yard track done. All the track at Bond is done (including the wye). The only major trackage left to do is the last 13 miles of the Axial Branch and the yard at Craig.This route has grown into such a monstrosity (519 tiles), that I don't know the feasibility of an actual completion, but I am working hard. One of the main features of the route right now is the ultra-smooth trackwork, with accurate curves and grades. It's fun winding a loaded coal train down to Bond! If enough people show interest, I may release a "developers edition" if you will, which would include track, signals, and speed limits, but not much else. Here are some shots of a coal drag going through Gore Canyon. You may note that I have added slide fences in the canyon since previous posts.Leaving the Azure siding, heading into the west end of the canyon
A more overhead shot. You can just make out the slide fences.
Leaving Tunnel 38
Stretched among tunnels 35-37
More slide fences
more...
Towards the eastern end of the canyon
On the Gore siding, and next to the Colorado river, where I have actually roughed in some water.
The end of the train
And finally a map of the route from the Activity Editor
Here are a couple links to some previous posts with other screen shots of copper spur, crater loops, and others.http://www.train-sim.com/cgi/dcforum/dcboard.cgi?az=show_thread&om=6381&forum=DCForumID6http://www.train-sim.com/cgi/dcforum/dcboard.cgi?az=show_thread&om=9658&forum=DCForumID6Moffat Road Tabernash to Craig, Axial, and Energy
197.5 miles (93.1%) of main/branch line track laid

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WOW!!!!
Looks great!

Rob
www.GreatNorthRails.com

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Very impressive to see the train snaking its way through the canyon. Well done. Cheers!
Marc - 3DTrains
http://www.3dtrains.comPro Series SuperPacks

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This route looks beautiful! I hope you decide to release it at some point.John DeLamater

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I've been thinking about the size and all of the route and releasing it, and I was wondering if you all would think it would be a good idea to split the route at Phippsburg. Phippsburg is a division point on the line, crew change, they make up trains there, etc, so it would be natural splitting point. Then you can down load only the half that you are interested in (or both if you want, of course). What do you think?Moffat Road Tabernash to Craig, Axial, and Energy
197.5 miles (93.1%) of main/branch line track laid

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Phippsburg is a crew change point after all. All the fun would be on one side of the route in my opinion. West of phipsburg there isn't much scenery to see. granted it would be fun to ride on, but not as fun as the entire thing.Nick

D&RGW's Soldier Summit
100% track laid
40% roads laid
.05% scenery done.

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Looks Great. I can't wait for this route to be released! http://groups.msn.com/MSTSNarrowGauge

Jonathan Lewis
jonathanmlewis@msn.com

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I love what I have seen so far and would love to have this route as well as the portion of the route from Denver to Tabernash. I would hope that you will change the terrain texture to something more typical of the area.Also, do you know if anybody is doing the section of the route from Bond to Glenwood Springs? I am actually interested in any depiction of Standard Gauge routes in Colorado. There was a beta release of Tennesse Pass a short while ago and hope that the person doing that route will expand it to go as far West as Dotsero and as far East as Pueblo.

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What camera view did you use for taking the long distance screenshots?Thank you, Sincerely,
Walter Conklin

Howells, NY
MP 71 "Jct of the NS Southern Tier and Old ER mainline"

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The Yard Cam.I created a yard region where I started the train running, and as long as you stay in the yard view, you can leave the yard region without getting bumped to another view. I changed the camcfg.dat file like this:camera ( CamTypeYard
CamType ( CamTypeYard CamControlFull ) Fov ( 30 )
ZClip ( 0.5 )
WagonNum ( 0 )
Description (Yard_Cam)
)Once you do this, you can fly anywhere on your route that you want, and the best part is that you can stay in one place and watch an entire train go by (my favorite).MarkMoffat Road Tabernash to Craig, Axial, and Energy
197.5 miles (93.1%) of main/branch line track laid

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I was doing Denver to Tabernash (quite by chance that it would have ended at Tabernash and thus could possibly have been joined to Mark's). I actually laid track as far as Winter Park with accurate grades etc. However, one computer hiccup later and both working copy plus backups were gone. Let that be a lesson to me and you: backup onto external media like CDROMs, dont just rely on multiple hard drives.I may start again one day...Geoff M.

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Actually, while we're on the subject, does anybody know where I can find up to date track plans of the Denver area, specifically around the Amtrak depot area, Prospect Jn, and BN 31st yard? The UP and DRGW plans I have are out of date as the area was quite substantially remodelled and simplified in the last few years.ThanksGeoff M.

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That's such a terrible shame that that happened Geoff. I have been backing up regularly on CDs. Multiple CDs. I've even thought of getting a safe deposit box for storing some of these CD backups, but I haven't gone that far... yet.Moffat Road Tabernash to Craig, Axial, and Energy
197.5 miles (93.1%) of main/branch line track laid

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Back up to CD/ROM. That is a great idea and you can find them nowadays for $.10 or less sometimes. When I first started using them to back up scanned data (valuation maps) on CSX, they were $15 when you could get them, and the recorder was a Yamaha that cost $3,000. Fortunately things have changed for the better.
I was looking over the Egeria canyon area, Crater loops, etc. on Aerials a couple of nights back. It is truly an amazing piece of the locating engineer's art.My suggestion would be to not worry about scenicking the whole thing. I will probably release the RMD-2 when I have good scenery in critical areas, but, for example, from Finlen, at the west exit of Silver Bow Canyon, to Sinclair, there is not much of interest other than the passings tracks and the substation at Morel.
There are also some areas between Butte and SilverBow that can be pretty bare - because they are pretty bare. Lastly, there is not much between Three Forks and Sappington, other than a short canyon, and a village. I would think of this as "scenery compression" and treat it pretty much the way we use compression in designing HO layouts. (or whatever your preferred scale is)It would be possible to spend dozens of hours getting a single ranch laid out correctly with every fence etc. - but does this add to the sim., I think not - but now it may be very important to have the outhouse behind a certain house - railroad men often marked their progress across a division in terms of the location of esoteric things like outhouses, burnt out shells of homes, etc.I spent 5 days working on DeerLodge, but only because it is an important shop and crew change point on the Milw. The North Coast Ltd. was not required to reduce speed from 75mph when passing there, so if I were modeling the NP, I would not worry much about the town. Milwaukee trains did stop, and the OH was allowed 10 minutes there.J. H. Sullivan

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Oh yes a place to run DRGW & SP if your thinking about releasing it go fir it and don't split it up.
Just Rollin Down The Tracks

Dale

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I'm building the Moffat Road from Denver to Granby via the Moffat Tunnel and via Rollins Pass. Track, key roads, streams, stations, the 33 tunnels with portals, and bridges are 100% complete. I'm going back now to clean up some problem terrain on the tracks, and then will add the water towers and coal towers. A few other buildings are also in, and a few forest sections.Don

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Oops. Sorry about the duplicate picture of the loop tunnel and trestle. Here is one of Tabernash.And Ladora with tunnel 31.Don

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Excellent work Don! It's exciting to see the "Hell Hill" section of the line. I recognize most of the shots, but not all. Could you give us some captions?A couple more questions, did you use a lot of dynamic track for the curves, or was it mostly default sections? And how did you do the tunnel interiors, if you did use a lot of dynamic track?I've been fussing with the tunnel interiors on my route. I originally was stacking tunnel portals end to end, but recently I jumped into the world of gmax and I've been building my own interiors. Here are a couple shots:This is looking out of Tunnel 49 (on a 12-degree curve).
This is Tunnel 46, just placed on some flat ground. You can even see that I increased the width of the tunnel from 16 feet for tangent track to 18 feet for the curves on either end. Is this overkill?
Anyway, I line up the tunnels with the track by copying and pasting the Q position data in the world files. I've been so excited about this whole tunnel interior thing, that I was considering extending my route to Denver through the tunnel district, but now that you've done it, great!Again, kudos on your work, and I look forward to downloading it.Moffat Road Tabernash to Craig, Axial, and Energy
197.5 miles (93.1%) of main/branch line track laid

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Thanks, Mark.First, I love your water and your protective fences and your tunnel interiors!Some time ago I tried to add captions between pictures but could not figure out how to do it. Please advise how it is done.Captions for the 13 pictures in Message 16 are as follows: 1. Union Station, Denver.
2. Moffat Depot, Denver.
3. East Portal, Moffat Tunnel.
4. West Portal, Moffat Tunnel.
5. Westbound from Tunnel 16.
6. Eastbound at Rollinsville.
7. Yankee Doodle Lake westbound.
8. Loop Tunnel (#33) and trestle.
9. Tunnel district somewhere.
10. Duplicate of #8, by mistake.
11. "Improper" diesel heading up 3rd rung of Giant's Ladder, showing 4 levels of track. Below are a bridge near the end of the 2nd rung, the old wood trestle on the 1st rung now bypassed on the auto road by a major cut into the mountain, and the still operating track on the far side of South Boulder Creek.
12. My version of Coal Creek crossing.
13. California Zephyr in tunnel district, brings back great old memories.I used lots of dynamic track, although I used it as little as possible. Xtracks helped a lot. For tunnel interiors, I used the default and Xtracks tunnel pieces, in the series of pieces identified as "A1t......Tun". With Xtracks, I could get a radius as sharp as 250 meters. This caused me some difficulties with some tunnels, particularly Tunnel 16, because the curve was not sharp enough, so I had to modify the alignment.Since you have worked on Tabernash, and my photo of it does not show the whole picture, literally, I am including here a route map of it, showing my version. I of course have to deal with compromises since I am trying to show present day track combined with 1928 track.The second picture is my version of the Moffat Tunnel route and Hill Route joining on the west side at Vasquez. The third picture is my version of the joining on the east side, before adding roads and a little station at that spot, Newcomb.With regard to my photo of Ladora, I am sure you know that the present rail into auto road bypasses that section. The old route is on private posted land. In September, with permission from the owner, I walked in there and explored and took pictures. I put them in an AOL photo album that may be available to you via email. Great fall colors on up to Needle's Eye. Was surprised to find another (collapsed) trestle beyond this one, which will not be in my route. The old square water tower is rubble. The tunnel on both sides cannot be noticed unless you know what it was.Don

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Mark,I messed up again. With your question and comments about tunnel interiors, I was going to include a photo of my tunnel interior. Here it is.Don

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Your route looks fantastic! Having ridden the original California Zephyr several times,it will be wonderful to have this route to run the MSTS version on. I'll be looking for its release.John DeLamater

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Thanks, John.I look forward to making it available.Don

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The route looks great. Can't wait for it to be released. Including Rollins Pass in the route instead of the Moffat Tunnel will add a lot of great operation.

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Your route looks sweet. Glad to see someone tackling the route. I'll be interested to drive the rollins pass section. I haven't been over it but would love to see what it looks like (seen lots of pictures and been to the east portal and west portal a bunch of times). Keep up the good work.Nick

D&RGW's Soldier Summit
100% track laid
40% roads laid
.05% scenery done.

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LAST EDITED ON Dec-19-03 AT 02:59 AM (EST)

I was going to use this for the screenshot contest, but I realized that it ended a day earlier than I thought, so I didn't get in. Now, I am sharing it with you all. It's amazing the difference that a little color and water can make!Gore Canyon, Tunnels 35-37
Moffat Road Tabernash to Craig, Axial, and Energy
197.5 miles (93.1%) of main/branch line track laid

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