River color – Comments welcome

I have received two comments saying they thought the river color was too bright and too blue. I have changed the color and would like some serious comments. The two screenshots below are "before" and "after."Cal Rasmussen
Beaverton, OR
(My email is in my profile)Columbia Gorge Route (Phase 1 UP side 95%, BNSF side 90%)

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

RE: River color -- Comments welcome., Tree Frog, Oct-29-03, 00:04 AM, (1) RE: River color -- Comments welcome., calr, Oct-29-03, 00:13 AM, (2) RE: River color -- Comments welcome., jpmurd, Oct-29-03, 00:19 AM, (3) RE: River color -- Comments welcome., highball5, Oct-29-03, 00:26 AM, (4) RE: River color -- Comments welcome., MRRextreme, Oct-29-03, 01:22 AM, (5) RE: River color -- Comments welcome., Tim Frost, Oct-29-03, 02:34 AM, (6) RE: River color -- Comments welcome., sstyrnol, Oct-29-03, 06:17 AM, (7) RE: River color -- Comments welcome., ASR_Q301, Oct-29-03, 08:35 AM, (8) RE: River color -- Comments welcome., calr, Oct-29-03, 10:06 AM, (9) RE: River color -- Comments welcome., Tim Frost, Oct-29-03, 10:26 AM, (10) RE: River color -- Comments welcome., CPR_Malice_96th, Oct-29-03, 11:08 AM, (11) RE: River color -- Comments welcome., muskokaandtahoe, Oct-29-03, 11:41 AM, (12) RE: River color -- Comments welcome., bray235, Oct-29-03, 12:26 PM, (13) RE: River color -- Comments welcome., LocoRo, Oct-29-03, 06:50 PM, (14) RE: River color -- Comments welcome., calr, Oct-29-03, 07:19 PM, (15) RE: River color -- Comments welcome., Richard, Oct-29-03, 07:24 PM, (16) RE: River color -- Comments welcome., Hack, Oct-29-03, 07:58 PM, (17) RE: River color -- Comments welcome., calr, Oct-29-03, 08:32 PM, (18) RE: River color -- Comments welcome., lnghairedwizard, Oct-30-03, 01:25 AM, (20) RE: River color -- Comments welcome., calr, Oct-30-03, 01:46 AM, (21) RE: River color -- Comments welcome., davidbeach, Oct-29-03, 10:03 PM, (19) RE: River color -- Comments welcome., jonathanmlewis, Oct-31-03, 06:01 AM, (22) RE: River color -- Comments welcome., WabashJae, Nov-01-03, 12:21 PM, (23) RE: River color -- Comments welcome., calr, Nov-01-03, 03:39 PM, (24)

Conferences | Topics | Previous Topic | Next Topic

Hi Cal,You are building a prototypical route. Which water color is closer to the water in Columbia Gorge? That is the one you should use.Bill Burnett

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

I have to admit, the original color isn't even close. And that was after I darkened it from Pat Malicki's original texture. The second is a lot closer to the actual river color but probably still a bit more blue.Cal Rasmussen
Beaverton, OR
(My email is in my profile)Columbia Gorge Route (Phase 1 UP side 95%, BNSF side 90%)

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

The after one looks more realistic, if you darken it more it will probably be harder to see, IMHO. You're doin good Cal!. John

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

My 3.5 cents worth (inflation) is that the after picture is lots better. I've agonized over the water color trying to make it close to what the real McCoy looks like around here based on photos I've taken, and the color changes so dramatically depending on the weather that it's hard to hit a happy medium. I've never been up in that part of the world, but the after picture sure looks better based on the surrounding terrain.

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

I like the after better. I never commented on the bright blue water you always showed in screenshots, since afterall it is your route. What would be nice is if the color of water could be linked to the color of the sky and the viewer's line-of-sight, since that is what really makes the water appear blue.

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

I like the after better... as I remember it (although it was an overcast day) that's much closer to the grey-green colour it was. Just my 4.02 cents... inflation, and CA tax on top of it! Tim Frost
NVTA Subway routes for BVE:

The Union Atlantic Railroad: Your stuff's important!

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

LAST EDITED ON Oct-29-03 AT 06:19 AM (EDT)

Hey Cal!Now it looks just beautiful! I do like it very much! Great improvement!EDIT: Can you show us a close-up view of the water?Cheers!SebastianFeel free to IM me on: sstyrnol@hotmail.com
My email is: sebastian.styrnol@gmx.de

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
47 days to finish my thesis! And then: Loads of Money!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

>Hey Cal!
>
>Now it looks just beautiful! I do like it very much! Great
>improvement! I second that one!! Cal, that looks really good the after shot. It looks REALLY good! Keep up the good work! >Mike Forster<
Perth, Westen Australiapacificnational_nr103@hotmail.com

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

LAST EDITED ON Oct-29-03 AT 10:08 AM (EDT)

(edit) That "post" button is still too close to the "choose file" link!!Cal Rasmussen
Beaverton, OR
(My email is in my profile)Columbia Gorge Route (Phase 1 UP side 95%, BNSF side 90%)

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

LAST EDITED ON Oct-29-03 AT 10:27 AM (EDT)

That looks fantastic. A huge improvement IMHO (from the original).Tim Frost
NVTA Subway routes for BVE:

The Union Atlantic Railroad: Your stuff's important!

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Cal,That new color is really nice.Although I have never seen the prototype, that original color seemed too blue.I can pretty much guarantee there is nowhere in Canada that still has water thats that blue looking. Can't imagine the States water is too much cleaner than our.LaterTim Kent
96th_Malice
" Power for You "

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Lake Moraine in Alberta. Seen from a low angle it's really very bright blue as it loaded w/ glacier silt.<<http://www.reggie.net/album.php?albid=187>>Dave Nelson

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

The comparison really makes you look out the window to see what colour the sky is. Ah, The Washington Rain Festival. The 'after' is much improved over the 'before' blue, but to get to reality, you would have to go to more tan, then you wouldn't know where the land ended and the water started. I vote for the 'after'.Stay warm this week.Bill

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

LAST EDITED ON Oct-29-03 AT 07:51 PM (EDT)

Hi Calr,
Download the file wtrtex.zip (see file library)Its a fantastic package of 18 water texture files made by Oneal Smyrl.It contains tga-files so you first can browse them in your paint(shop) program to see what ace you will try first ..I already saw 2 texture files in it you can use (edit: changed file name)Greetings Roland
Netherlands

fan of Christrains©
www.christrains.com

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

After considerable searching, I found the package you are talking about. It is "wtrtex.zip". Unfortunately, those textures all have transparency. That prevents me from using them. I am dealing with the problem of multiple water levels in the same tile. This occurs at the The Dalles Dam and later in phase 2 at the Bonneville Dam. To handle the multiple levels, I have created water "panels" using watertop.ace for the texture and use these to simulate water where the tile water level is lower than the desired water level. Transparency will absolutely not work in this case.I will take another look at those textures and see if they can be used without transparency.Cal Rasmussen
Beaverton, OR
(My email is in my profile)Columbia Gorge Route (Phase 1 UP side 95%, BNSF side 90%)

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Cal,
Water is a tough thing to get right, it changes with the sky. A perfect example is a picture found on Chuck Donaldson site "Somewhere West of Denver". It you look at the photo that was taken in the Columbia Gorge, you'll notice the water closest to the lead unit looks blue. The water in the distance looks a lot darker.My personal opinion, the second picture looks better than the first. I understand there are many layers to the water texture, but I've never experimented much with the water to see if it is possible to have multi colored water in the same stream. An old Model Railroad trick, was to paint the river sides a green/blue color and the center of the river black, to make it appear deep. Keep up the good work Cal, the routes looking better all the time.Take care,
Rich S.

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Hi Cal,The second pic looks much better, but you have a bad tiling problem with the texture. If you like, you can send me the TGA you're working with and I'll remove the tiled edges. It would be a shame to let it be a detractor to what's looking to be a stunning route. Cheers!
Marc - 3DTrains
http://www.3dtrains.comPro Series SuperPacks

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

LAST EDITED ON Oct-29-03 AT 08:34 PM (EDT)

PSP has a function to create a seamless tile from an image. I haven't tried it, yet. Unfortunately, the tiling for the water "panel" textures is different than the terrtex. If I remember correctly, I had to reduce the terrtex by 50% (x and y) and then tile it by 2 to get the object texture to match up with the terrtex. It has been so long since I did it, I don't remember for sure what I did.Cal Rasmussen
Beaverton, OR
(My email is in my profile)Columbia Gorge Route (Phase 1 UP side 95%, BNSF side 90%)

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

RE:"PSP has a function to create a seamless tile from an image"where in psp is this feature cal?....does PSP7 have it?Longhairedwizard

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

You have to create a selection away from the edges of the image and then go to selections->create seamless image. Read the help topic on seamless images. I haven't quite mastered the technique. It appears to be best suited to geometric images.Cal Rasmussen
Beaverton, OR
(My email is in my profile)Columbia Gorge Route (Phase 1 UP side 95%, BNSF side 90%)

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Cal,Looks like you've gotten a whole lot closer. The river, in general, certainly appears to me to be much more of a gray than a blue. The second one could be even a bit grayer, but it is a vast improvement in my opinion.David Beach.Palouse & Lewiston

Standardized \global\tsection.dat file now at build00021.

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

I think that the after looks better. The before looked far too bright.http://groups.msn.com/MSTSNarrowGauge

Jonathan Lewis
jonathanmlewis@msn.com

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

LAST EDITED ON Nov-01-03 AT 01:03 PM (EST)

Cal, you might want to check out the water texture that is used on this freeware route- http://www.train-sim.com/dcforum/DCForumID15/2299.html
I'm not sure if it uses transparency, but I think it might be worth checking out.Edit: I'm downloading the route now to harvest some textures and objects from it...If the creator lets us use them I'll let you know whether the water texture is usable and if so, I'll send it to you.

Jae

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

I have decided to go with the color above. I have changed the tiling and am working on trying to even out the shading so that the tiling is not so obvious.Cal Rasmussen
Beaverton, OR
(My email is in my profile)Columbia Gorge Route (Phase 1 UP side 95%, BNSF side 90%)

Alert | IP

[ Home | MSTS Forum | MSTS FAQ | File Library ] Copyright © 2002 by Nels Anderson. All Rights Reserved.