Question for route buiders

I have a question for you prototypical route builders. Have you traveled the lines you are building or do you use satellite pictures. I've noticed a lot of you put in the details along the line and just wondering how you come up with those. For instance - Cals route looks like it has the route details. The reason I am asking is I would like to model the line thru Mankato, MN and would like to make it prototypical. I sure I didn't ask the question right but maybe you can figure out what I am asking.Thanks, Jerry

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RE: Question for route buiders, mdeming, Oct-09-03, 01:47 PM, (1) RE: Question for route buiders, jonathanmlewis, Oct-09-03, 01:47 PM, (2) RE: Question for route buiders, calr, Oct-09-03, 02:49 PM, (3) RE: Question for route buiders, geoffmayo, Oct-09-03, 03:55 PM, (4) RE: Question for route buiders, muskokaandtahoe, Oct-09-03, 04:05 PM, (5) RE: Question for route buiders, timken, Oct-09-03, 04:41 PM, (6) RE: Question for route buiders, jklein, Oct-09-03, 04:45 PM, (7) RE: Question for route buiders, jdtrainman, Oct-09-03, 05:45 PM, (8) RE: Question for route buiders, CGW409, Oct-09-03, 06:57 PM, (9) RE: Question for route buiders, jdtrainman, Oct-09-03, 10:54 PM, (11) RE: Question for route buiders, LoneWolf, Oct-09-03, 09:06 PM, (10) RE: Question for route buiders, Mark_Blum, Oct-09-03, 11:03 PM, (12) RE: Question for route buiders, CStevens, Oct-10-03, 02:36 PM, (13) RE: Question for route buiders, lfriddle, Oct-10-03, 06:43 PM, (14) RE: Question for route buiders, Tree Frog, Oct-10-03, 09:05 PM, (15) RE: Question for route buiders, jklein, Oct-10-03, 11:15 PM, (16) RE: Question for route buiders, jklein, Oct-13-03, 11:24 AM, (17) RE: Question for route buiders, enocell, Oct-13-03, 03:31 PM, (18)

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Speaking only for myself, I traveled most of the CGW at various times in my life. Photographs are a good source of info, etc etc. I try to think about what details are needed to give a realistic effect. Ingalton was the easist for me on my route because I grew up there and was very familier with it.

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All the routes I have made closed before the 1950's so I have had to go of photos. But is better if you have traveled the route so you know what it is (was) like.http://groups.msn.com/MSTSNarrowGauge

Jonathan Lewis
jonathanmlewis@msn.com

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LAST EDITED ON Oct-09-03 AT 03:17 PM (EDT)

I draw from many resources in the building of my route. I use topographic maps for placement of track and roads. I use both topographic maps and photos from USAPhotomaps and Terraserve for placement of structures and trees. I have made many trips out into the Gorge to see and photograph locations included in my route. I have probably two full rolls of 35 mm film just on The Dalles Dam which is a MAJOR feature in the route. I have also drawn from historic information in books and on the internet.To do a prototype route well, you have to do a LOT of research. Visiting the locale is very important. Taking photos, lots of them, is vital. Visiting your local library is helpful. I found some great information and plan drawings on the The Dalles Dam at the Multnomah County Library in downtown Portland. When you think you've got enough information, search some more. Good luck to you.(Edit) There are a couple of things on my route that are not prototypical but I'm not going to say what they are!Cal Rasmussen
Beaverton, OR
(My email is in my profile)Columbia Gorge Route (Phase 1 UP side 95%, BNSF side 90%)

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I do like North American railroads, and being in the UK, that is a difficulty! However, I *have* travelled on the two lines I've attempted (and attempting) to model. I spent nearly a week in the Rocky Mountains west of Denver, a couple of nights of which were at a place called Cabin By The Tracks (http://coloradorailroadvacation.com/). This place was great, a two bedroom house in Pinecliffe, CO just a few feet from the DRGW mainline! And at a very reasonable price! The owners were very friendly. What more can I say? Oh yes, don't plan on uninterrupted sleep! (bear in mind that we don't get that kind of noise in the UK so it's very different for me!).The second route is the IC out of New Orleans. Again, I spent 3 days of this summer driving the line on one day and travelling by Amtrak the next two. I ended up with about 200 pictures for the route between Jackson, MS and New Orleans, LA.I also use Terraserver, Rand McNally maps, websites etc.Mad? Probably.But at the end of the day, a route is exactly what you make it. It can be as authentic or as fictitious as you like. The most important thing is that it's YOU that needs to be happy doing it. Ignore the rivet counters.Geoff M.

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IMO at least one field trip is necessary to get the best sense of the type of tree cover (and density) and typical building style. Photos are useful but they may show something that's not common.Dave NelsonWP mainline, Oakland-Stockton: 95% complete;
SP mainline, Oakland-Stockton: 20% complete;
Aug 1950

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The route I'm working on is the Sumpter Valley Railway, a 3' gauge line that was abandoned in 1947. Research has been moderately painless, as I live at the main terminal, Baker City. It has involved lots of trips to the museum, digging through poorly cataloged maps and photos, walking major portions of the old grade, much is on public lands, aquiring several books on the region and the railroad.Thank goodness for digital cameras! I've shot around 500 pix of the various locations, and find that no matter how many I shoot, there's always something I don't remember and didn't photograph. Pictures have allowed me to make realistic ground textures for many areas, literally photo terrtex tiles!I also use terraserver and USAPhotomaps (can't imagine trying without them!), as most the old grade shows in the photos.A lot of work for 40 miles or so of progress over a year, but it's sure fun to run it, and have it look right. I drive within a few hundred feet of the tracks several times a year while going to Sumpter, and know just what it should look like!

Steve T.

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In the fall my wife and I always travel up thru the Mankato area for the changing leaves. It is a little river valley and hills. What I like about the area is the trains run along the river and also the main highway. Also, the dense foilage. I suppose when we take our trip this fall I better have along a lot of film.Thank you for the responses. Cal, I can't wait to see your route when you get done.Jerry

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Let me talk about the routes I'm building an a case-by-case basis...ATSF Marceline -- I've driven and photographed extensively in preparation for this route. In addition, I have Amtrak cab-ride videos (commercial productions) and have ridden the line over 30 times between KC and Chicago. Also have track inspection video of the N&W portions of the route (courtesy of John Marbury, THANKS JOHN!) and official track charts from both railroads.GM&O -- Grew up on the GM&O. Rode the engines quite a bit. Railfanned the line (still do) and photographed extensively. Have historical track charts provided by an ex-GM&O Dispatcher along with a complete set of GM&O Historical Society magazines for photos and operational documentation. BTW: expect a beta release of a completely NEW GM&O route by Thanksgiving!UP (Sedalia Sub./River Sub) -- Probably my least foamed route, but it's easily accessible to me. Have ridden the Sedalia Sub. several times but River Sub. has been devoid of passenger service since before I was born (and, baby, that's a LONG time ago!)... OOOPS! Done went n let the cat outta da bag, didn't I!!!! Estimated beta release date: Christmas, 2003.JBD

Jim Duncan
Midwest Rail Group

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Jerry
In my case the route I'm working on is now a bike path(former Chicago area interurban),fortunatly 99% of the Chicago Aurora & Elgin ROW was preserved as such.
I used primarily map sites that I could get long/lat coordinates from(noting the co-ords of roads,other rail lines etc),this was followed by field trips to get a general feel for the areas and finally research,research,research such as I was lucky to find a vid of films taken from the lead car's "railfan seat" that gave me a motormans perspective of about 60% of the line, the remaining undocumented(in either book or film)areas require activating the fudge factor.Gary S

"Some say this country's just out for a fight. After 9/11 man I'd have to say thats right"
"Have You Forgotten"
Darryl Worley

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So have you been out to the Fox Valley Rail Museum and ridden the extant trackage? Very neat little operation.... The traction cars are a hoot to ride (unless it's COLD!)....JBD

Jim Duncan
Midwest Rail Group

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I've travelled my route for 48 years. I never really started archiving what was actually there until recently. The unfortunate aspect of that is that for the period I'm recreating there is much that is changed and even lost forever owing to a lack of detailed historical record. While the terrain and rail lines and highways exist much as they always have, there are whole towns that have vanished almost without notice or trace.Digging up information about places like that has proven to be quite a challenge. It has also been a fascinating learning experience. There is a lot of interesting history attached to the region I am so fond of that I had previously just taken for granted. Researching my route has really opened my eyes to things that I had dismissed in the blink of an eye before.If for nothing else, I can thank MSTS for that.

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Hi Jerry:I do it like Cal - lots of research. I'm especially lucky to have a video out the back of an inspection car, showing every inch of track. Even though its a huge asset, that video isn't enough, because the field of view is very narrow. My route is also based upon DEM terrain, terrafly photos, and field trips with digital camera and video camera. Lots of work - all of it fun until the Route Editor throws a temper tantrum. I've never been lucky enough to ride in the cab through North Georgia - but I've taken a few photos from the last passenger car in the train.Good luck!Mark
A Southern Railway Fan
The NE Georgia/SC Route

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Another valuable resource is the historical society for the railroad your building. Most fallen flag railroads have a historical society that can provide books, photos and maps. Their web sites also have a message board where you ask questions or get information on specific sites and prototypical operations. I have used the Atlantic Coast Line - Seaboard Air Line Historical Society for all of the above.
My Father worked for the Seaboard Air Line railroad and I grew up riding the passenger trains from Tampa to Savannah in the late 50's and early 60's. I think you'll find a tie with every route builder and the railroad they choose to model.

Carey
Seaboard Air Line
Tampa - Wildwood
88 miles of track work completed. Adding roads and scenery.

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LAST EDITED ON Oct-10-03 AT 06:45 PM (EDT)

I traveled it extensively the entire length with my digital camera, Plus I use track charts, sat photos, maps. In short, everything I can get my hands on.
I went to the yards with a clip board and camera and made drawings and took pictures. Stood on overpasses and did the same. Thought I would be arrested any minute, but I wasn't!
edit-
BTW: You shouldn't try this if you look Arabic.
Wear a tie and a jacket and try to look official. Everyone stared at me but nobody challanged me.Larry

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Hi Jerry,My protypical route was built from digital photos I took while traveling on a recent vacation to Sea View. Bill Burnett

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I talked to my travel agent about booking a vacation to Sea View but they said they couldn't find anything!Jerry

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Been away most of the weekend. Haven't been able to get back but would like to thank all of you for your responses. I guess when we take our trip I better have a lot of film and paper. I know there are some areas I won't be able to get to so will have to fudge a little. Wish me luck!Thanks, Jerry

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I use satellite photos, topo maps and photos from several sources.
the photos from HABS/HAER are really superb, you can even the license plates on some cars! They are big, though (18 MB each)
Then there's my imagination.

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