Train-Sim.Com
MSTS Route Design

For DEM, how much small of a hill should be graded?

Started by metraup 10 posts 6 min read

Notice to all visitors and members of the Train-Sim.Com message forums:
If you plan on using a signature banner in your posts, we would like to remind you that there is a maximum size for banners. That maximum is 450 pixels wide by 120 pixels high, and not to exceed 25k. Your compliance is appreciated. FORUM RULES Problems? There are two common reasons for problems with logging in and posting messages. The first is that you are running a firewall that prevents your messages from being sent to the server. The other is that you have cookies disabled; the DCForum software requires cookies to work properly.

Previous Topic | Next Topic

Printer-friendly copy Email this topic to a friend

Reading Topic #10604

metraupMember since Apr-8-03 · 477 posts

For DEM, how much small of a hill should be graded? – image 1

As I am thinking about how to get permission from my parents to give my email so I can download 10M DEM, I thought I best ask all my other questions.On 30M DEM at least, there are a lot of small hills. You know what I mean. The track ballast gets burried at one spot and is slight floating in another, all in the same piece. I am wondering, how much should you follow the hills? Should you just hit Y for the smaller "hills" and "valleys"?Thanks!
METRAUP

Chicago-Geneva Metra Line

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

RE: For DEM, how much small of a hill should be graded?, markhyams, Oct-02-03, 09:00 PM, (1) RE: For DEM, how much small of a hill should be graded?, K36487, Oct-07-03, 09:15 PM, (7) RE: For DEM, how much small of a hill should be graded?, jonathanmlewis, Oct-08-03, 03:33 PM, (8) RE: For DEM, how much small of a hill should be graded?, DRGWK36, Oct-03-03, 07:42 AM, (2) RE: For DEM, how much small of a hill should be graded?, landnrailroader, Oct-03-03, 10:08 PM, (3) RE: For DEM, how much small of a hill should be graded?, metraup, Oct-04-03, 09:41 PM, (4) RE: For DEM, how much small of a hill should be graded?, LoneWolf, Oct-04-03, 11:08 PM, (5) RE: For DEM, how much small of a hill should be graded?, davidbeach, Oct-05-03, 08:44 PM, (6) RE: For DEM, how much small of a hill should be graded?, WestSlopeRRfan, Oct-10-03, 12:26 PM, (9)

Conferences | Topics | Previous Topic | Next Topic

markhyamsCharter Member · 117 posts

RE: For DEM, how much small of a hill should be graded?

I generally follow the track chart for the grades and press the Y key to adjust the terrain accordingly. As far as "grading" through small hills, I would say yes, as real railroads typically do not follow the contour of the land through every little hill and valley, rather they move the earth around creating cuts and fills.MarkMoffat Road Tabernash to Craig, Axial, and Energy
176.0 miles (83.4%) of main/branch line track laid

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

K36487Member since Apr-5-03 · 818 posts

RE: For DEM, how much small of a hill should be graded?

For DEM, how much small of a hill should be graded? – image 2

The D&RGW narrow gauge followed natural contours in the land most of the time. So it depends what your modeling.For DEM, how much small of a hill should be graded? – image 3
Future Cumbres & Toltec or Durango & Silverton Engineer. Go to my informative K-36 page:
http://www.freewebs.com/drgwk36 Visit the Pheasant Hill Railroad's (My G-scale) official site!http://groups.msn.com/MSTSNarrowGauge/ngmodelinggscale.msnwVisit the Red Mountain Gorge Narrow Gauge R.R.'s official
site:
http://groups.msn.com/MSTSNarrowGauge/narrowgaugerouteformsts.msnw

*Proud to be a "Friend" of the Cumbres & Toltec.*

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

jonathanmlewisMember since Sep-25-02 · 936 posts

RE: For DEM, how much small of a hill should be graded?

For DEM, how much small of a hill should be graded? – image 4

LAST EDITED ON Oct-08-03 AT 03:33 PM (EDT)

Most Narrow Gauge followed natural contours because it they could turn sharper curves and go up steep grades. That is why in mountains Narrow gauge was cheaper to build.http://groups.msn.com/MSTSNarrowGauge
For DEM, how much small of a hill should be graded? – image 5
Jonathan Lewis
jonathanmlewis@msn.com

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

DRGWK36Charter Member · 643 posts

RE: For DEM, how much small of a hill should be graded?

If you are following the track alignment as determined by your markers, try to match something close to the prototype grade and then cut and fill between the hills. Definitely use the "Y" in those cases. From your comments about "on 30m DEM at least," it sounds like you feel the terrain may change significantly with the 10m DEMs. There will be additional details, but the rough outline won't change much. Where you will get big changes is in cuts & fills that are already there, and in some of the details of valleys and hills. You'll still end up with a lot of small hills. Sorry if I misread your post on that...Andy

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

landnrailroaderCharter Member · 1016 posts

RE: For DEM, how much small of a hill should be graded?

In my experience, there is not much 10m stuff out there yet, and I have switched to using the continuous datasets in my routes. By the way, I find that I almost never get the map at seamless.usgs.gov to download, so I go to topozone to get my coordinates and then I just select my desired area by the lat/long data.Where there is an abandoned R/W, and probably more so if the R/W exists, I have found that you can often see where the line goes. Generally the cuts, if the line has been abandoned for a while, will be a little deeper account of erosion and fills will be a little lower, but they are often visible.As someone else said, railroads rarely build right on the ground. HOwever, there are exception, and one in my experience is the South Georgia RR. between Adell, Ga and Perry, FL. It is regular little roller coaster, and we used to say (when I worked for Southern) that "it was just laid on the ground".J. H. Sullivan, P.E.

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

metraupMember since Apr-8-03 · 477 posts

RE: For DEM, how much small of a hill should be graded?

For DEM, how much small of a hill should be graded? – image 6

Part of the reason for 10M is so that the track bed is clearer and not sloped side-to-side.Thanks!
METRAUP

Chicago-Geneva Metra Line

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

LoneWolfMember since Apr-9-03 · 218 posts

RE: For DEM, how much small of a hill should be graded?

For DEM, how much small of a hill should be graded? – image 7

Just a general observation of the track cut/fill situation in my neck of the woods and I'm sure it probably holds true everywhere else.It appears that wherever possible the terrain is filled to create roadbed surface rather than cutting and removing material. So I use that as a general rule of thumb for my track placement since I am not fortunate enough to be able to obtain rail elevation data. Presumably it is cheaper to have fill material hauled in and dumped than it is to excavate and haul away.

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

davidbeachCharter Member · 840 posts

RE: For DEM, how much small of a hill should be graded?

To the extent that the local material is suitable for fill, the civil design target is to balance cut and fill. Fill has to come from somewhere, cut has to go somewhere, when cut and fill balance that somewhere is in the project construction zone.David Beach.Palouse & LewistonFor DEM, how much small of a hill should be graded? – image 8


Standardized \global\tsection.dat file now at build00020.

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

WestSlopeRRfanCharter Member · 974 posts

RE: For DEM, how much small of a hill should be graded?

For DEM, how much small of a hill should be graded? – image 9

Here is the true glory of 10m DEM.
For DEM, how much small of a hill should be graded? – image 10
This is a large cut for the railroad that was already made in the dem. Like Andy mentioned, most the time I can see where the tracks goes because the terrain is so accurate (I use markers too)For the most part I stick to the track charts but occasionally, i'll fine tune the tracks to the terrain. If you live close to area you're modeling (recommended) you can always go look at what the railroad does. Does it cut through hills and make fills, or go with the landscape.Nick

Alert | IP


[ Home | MSTS Forum | MSTS FAQ | File Library ] Copyright © 2002 by Nels Anderson. All Rights Reserved.

Restored from the Train-Sim.Com archive, captured October 23, 2003. About this archive.