3d Canvas Library

Hi. I just got the pro version of 3D Canvas and am trying to learn how to work and create MSTS cars and wagons. I have two questions. 1st is where can I get some good tuturials on using 3d Canvas with locomotives and wagons? 2nd. Is there some sort of basic library where one can go to get the basic parts of railcars or locomotives. By that I mean a simple frame with two sets of bogies? I do respect people wanting to create stuff and not give it to others but for each and everyone one of us to have to start from scratch is a bit much. I want to get into creating cars and locomotives since I have been basically painting/skinning them thus far. Can anyone help and thanks in advance?

Porvelo Rail System

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RE: 3d Canvas Library, Vulcan Foundry, Aug-08-04, 06:44 AM, (1) RE: 3d Canvas Library, PawloB, Aug-08-04, 09:55 AM, (2) RE: 3d Canvas Library, FozzyBear, Aug-08-04, 10:29 AM, (3) RE: 3d Canvas Library, CumbresEngineer, Aug-08-04, 01:01 PM, (4) RE: 3d Canvas Library, Vulcan Foundry, Aug-08-04, 06:00 PM, (5) RE: 3d Canvas Library, pwillard, Aug-08-04, 09:44 PM, (6) RE: 3d Canvas Library, wacampbell, Aug-08-04, 10:51 PM, (10) RE: 3d Canvas Library, FozzyBear, Aug-08-04, 09:54 PM, (7) RE: 3d Canvas Library, Vulcan Foundry, Aug-08-04, 10:19 PM, (8) RE: 3d Canvas Library, FozzyBear, Aug-08-04, 10:33 PM, (9) RE: 3d Canvas Library, PawloB, Aug-09-04, 03:21 AM, (11) RE: 3d Canvas Library, Vulcan Foundry, Aug-09-04, 06:18 AM, (12) RE: 3d Canvas Library, pwillard, Aug-09-04, 06:47 PM, (13) RE: 3d Canvas Library, FozzyBear, Aug-10-04, 09:21 AM, (14) RE: 3d Canvas Library, pwillard, Aug-10-04, 11:26 AM, (15) RE: 3d Canvas Library, Kip, Aug-10-04, 02:57 PM, (16) RE: 3d Canvas Library, pwillard, Aug-11-04, 07:59 AM, (17)

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LAST EDITED ON Aug-08-04 AT 06:45 AM (EST)

Here are the links to Paul Gausden's Steam Engine tutorial, the tutorials on the Amabilis forums and also Pete Willard's Diesel engine tutorial hosted on TKW forums.http://www.railpage.org.au/steam4me/trainsim/tutorials/Steam3DC/steam3DC.htmhttp://www.amabilis.com/tutorials.htm#TutorialsUserCreatedhttp://tkw.tzo.com/phpbb2/viewforum.php?f=4&sid=963f206ceebb14adf06801e23552cb61There are no basic libraries of parts available for public download apart from the UK loco library hosted in this site.
http://www.highworth.freeuk.com/UKLocoLib.zip.Any other parts required will need to be made by you.
Paul's engineer plug-in for 3DC will build what you are aksing for, a complete engine chasis, with axels, bogies etc to whatever specifications you require.As far as each and everyone of us having to start from scratch, I did, and had no problems in building any of the parts I needed. Its learnt just like any other skill and takes time and patience. You first must learn everything about 3DC and do all the basic tutorials available. Your first project needs to be something simple until your skills progress until you are able to tackle a MAJOR project such as an engine.

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http://www.train-sim.com/dcforum/User_files/4116124b53dc02cf.jpg

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Thsnks for the info. One question I have is how do you know what size you need for the bogies etc. Unless you have a drawing with all that info how do you relate with building an engine that may be a bit off scale by being too large or too small?

Porvelo Rail System

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That's an easy one to answer.. So I'll try and help you there... You do use a drawing. Get an outline or engineering drawing of the locomotive you are building and use that as a background in 3D Canvas. You can then build the parts to size and have them positioned correctly in relation to each other as well.Best Regards,
Julian (Fozzy The Bear)

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Well look who it is! Been gone for awhile eh? Kevin Bush,

I will have my hand on the throttle of a K-36 very soon Mon Freunds!

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I wouldn't worry too much about the background image within 3DC if you have trouble with it at any stage. As long as the plans you have are to scale you'll manage with a ruler and a bit of simple math.

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I can honestly say that in my opinion using a background image is "overrated".I have not once used a background image to create a shape. I use careful measurements and a scale conversion calculater (Since I need to convert S scale or HO scale draings into 1:1 scale for 3D drawing.)You get better results that way, I think.Pete Willard

http://www.trainsimstuff.com

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I guess its all a matter of personal style. I started out with scale-rule and calculator, but now I do almost all my work with a background image. I don't worry about the scale of the background image until the project is all done. Then I get out the caculator and work out the scale conversion needed to bring the model to its final size.Wayne

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LAST EDITED ON Aug-08-04 AT 10:13 PM (EST)

>I wouldn't worry too much about the background image within
>3DC if you have trouble with it at any stage. As long as the
>plans you have are to scale you'll manage with a ruler and a
>bit of simple math. Personally I think it's much easier to use a background image, that's what they're for.Note to Pete: You don't have to scale the drawing for use in canvas. You only have to know the size of the drawing in pixels.... See the following:The easy way to do this is:Get your locomotive drawing scanned in.. Then take a known dimension. For example the length between the Pilot Beam and the Trailing Beam. Lets for example say that comes out at 30 Feet.Crop your drawing between those two points....Now! we need to know the width of the drawing in pixels.. Devide the number of pixels by 30 (because 30 was the width in feet) ... so lets say the drawing is now 3000 pixels wide. that would be 3000 devided by 30 which = 100. OK so we now know the drawing is 100 Pixels Per Foot.Increase the width of the drawing by say 400 Pixels to give yourself a bit of room to work in 3DCanvas. Don't rescale it, just add blank pixels. This makes the total drawing now 3400 Pixels which in this example is = to 34 Feet wide.Go into 3DCanvas and set your floor grid size to 34 Feet. To match the drawing width. Now when you use that drawing as a background image, the locomotive will be shown on it at exactly the right size in 3DCanvas, and you can lay out your model and the relative position of all of its component parts, using the semi transparent view mode in 3dCanvas, and have it come out exactly the right size. Without constantly having to use your calculator to find out how big something should be, or how far it should be from any other part of the model. Best Regards,
Julian (Fozzy The Bear)

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Like Pete, I've never used the background image method much at all except for perhaps the lathe or extrude tools on the odd occasion. Just never found it handy, thats all. Although I can see the merits of it if you prefer to use it for building.

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> Just never found it handy, thats all. Although
>I can see the merits of it if you prefer to use it for
>building. Well Horses For Courses I guess... Depends how you like to work with it. I just find it much easier that way, because if something is out of place or not quite right, or the wrong size and shape on the model, it's immediately obvious. It also helps a great deal when aligning objects to each other and even more so when setting out steam locomotive valve gear where the component positions, lengths and pivot points are critical to it working properly.Best Regards,
Julian (Fozzy The Bear)

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Excellant. Wonderful. Now if I can only find an excellant drawing of a locomotive or car to use. Any Suggestions?

Porvelo Rail System

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>Excellant. Wonderful. Now if I can only find an excellant
>drawing of a locomotive or car to use. Any Suggestions? There are many available on the web. Use google as your search tool for the particular prototype that you're after. Model Railraod magazines are also an excellent source of getting diagrams as are the many books or publications around that feature them within. Railway historical societies may also have prototype drawings available to copy and their menbers are usually a treasure trove of information.

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You might have to just buy stuff.
1) I have subscriptions to Model railroad magazines that regularly carry drawings.2) I keep a look-out on EBAY and buy when the buying is right. My favorite EBAY purshcae is still an excellent book of GATX tank car data and drawings. (Produced by GATX)Pete Willard

http://www.trainsimstuff.com

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A really good source of drawings if you're not looking for modern period stuff and want 1930's or earlier is the Locomotive Cyclopedia re-published on CD by the guys that make the Raildriver train control system.That's loaded with prototype drawings many of which have not yet been built for Trainsim.Best Regards,
Julian (Fozzy The Bear)

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LAST EDITED ON Aug-10-04 AT 11:26 AM (EST)

I'm also hoping that they rescue a more modern cyclopedia... I'm really hoping...Some of the Magazine printers, like Hundeman publishing that do Mainline Modeler, collect up their drawings and re-publish them in books like FREIGHT CARS - VOL 1, 2, etc. Very nice, easy and affordable way to get drawings...Pete Willard

http://www.trainsimstuff.com

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I do it both ways. I use drawings and background templates. To me, it depends on the model. Not all drawings have the 3D views and some don't have 2 dimensional views...so I try to compensate. I have both Kamblachs Model Railroader Diesel & Steam books ecyclopedia's that I use for better dimensions and views. The Steam book has better detail drawings in many respects and gives me a better idea on the other 2 dimensions. I go to one website (http://prr.railfan.net/diagrams/PRRdiagrams.html?sel=coa&sz=sm&fr=)that has "rough" drawings and dimensions. I use that for templates on backgrounds, then I use the MR books I have to get more of the dimensions and a better idea of what needs done. Then I use another website that has several type locomotives with paint schemes or at least a large side view at http://paintshop.railfan.net/ Here is where I make my skin templates. I make several version of side views with and without handrails. I "cut" them up and use them to skin the parts I make in 3DC. That is just one method I use on occasion. However, using backgrounds can be the "only" thing to use because there are models you want to make that there isn't enough data to use or even find. So, personally, using direct drawing data and using background templates either together or not will work as well. On another note, Fozzy's assessment on using background templates and properly setting the scale is not difficult. I use Photoshop to make 512x512 bmp's of certain models and just fit them in the frame. If a loco is 52 feet long from coupler to coupler I make the side view of the loco to fit from coupler to coupler in a 512x512 image (sometimes I have used 1024x1024). Thus, it is now 512 pixels equaling 52'. I then set the grid in 3DC to 52' square and set the centers at 26' (26x2=52'). Not hard really, takes a little work and practice. Anyway....that's what I do.Kip
Creator of the PRRR and Hoodoo Pass

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Well, I hope we are not confusing you. (I.m one of those oddballs that doesn't like to mess with the default grid)ANYWAY, There's more than "one" way and any new modeler needs to determine what works best for their own way of thinking. I know for a fact that I model stuff wierd. EXAMPLE: With MY way of modeling, SCALE to SIZE is my best friend. I also employ a mothod of using "throw away" objects, using them as rulers and guides. It takes seconds to create one... toss them out when you are done with them. (We've asked Richard at AMABILIS to create us a ruler tool... maybe someday)I'm not really adverse to giving away some of my objects or "parts", but the truth is... I don't know which ones? Larry Goss once gave away his 3D COUPLER object and I have used it on every model I have created since (with credit given for the object). This means that not only do MY models have the same coupler, so does anybody else who used it (Like Larry himself or the others who managed to snag it when he made it available to us) This is an example a GOOD part to share.Pete Willard

http://www.trainsimstuff.com

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