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Hi Folks,I'm only two weeks into MSTS and Trainz and Ive got to say both programs are good in their own way although the animated wheels, choice of routes and quality of graphics are the top items in MSTS. The coupling bug is a hassle but I'll juggle the coupler settings and see how I go. Anyway, my question is, how much detail during the modelling is required when you build locos? The reason I ask is that for a long time now I have been modelling Diesel locos and "Big Boy" style locos in Rhinoceros and 3dsMax and they have every detail except the rivets, but they are huge multimegabyte models and most likely giant overkill for MSTS. Any advice would be appreciated.By the way this is a great forum and web site in general.Rob
Well , I think you figured it out. We have to work in pretty much "low-polycount" mode. That extra detail is not beneficial.We've had some ball park figures tossed around over the years and they may not be accurate anymore now that we have newer systems and graphics cards...The primary rule of thumb is... whatever you can get away with *NOT* modeling in 3D is good. Example: We can use a photo of a brake wheel and 2 single faced poly's for a brake wheel, or model it in 3D running at about 120 poly's... 2 or 120... adds up quickly. The generic modeler folks try to keep engines under 12,000 poly's and cars (wagons) under 3000. Those number alone should give you an idea that it would be far easier to start from sratch than try to use on of your "already built" Rhino or 3D Studio models.Sure, there are High Poly Builders out there... but they also spend a lot of time developing many "levels of detail" versions so it doesn't make even the best systems "crawl". Pete Willard http://www.trainsimstuff.com
Hi and welcome to the forum, Rob.How many polys... That's a very old issue and each one has his/her own opinion. It also depends of what do you want to model; If it's a loco then you can go as far as 30.000 polys like I have seen on some German models. However, I won't advise you to go that far because not everyone owns a P4 3Ghz, if you pretend to share your models then you must think about who owns a slower processor. I always keep my models between 10.000 and 15.000 polys with the less UVW wrapping I can get because I also like detail, but think: A normal user normally watches the train from a distance where you won't be able to see the rivets. If it's a wagon then you must keep in mind that most probably that wagon will be repeated in a consist, so who wants a train with, let's say, 20 times 10.000 polys? I use a slower computer where I use to test how far I can go when it comes to model complexity. Limits? Once I builded a model for FS2004 with 60.000 polys and it worked more or less, but Gmax started to complain, so I had to reduce the detail down to 53.000 polys. I also noticed that huge texturing overloads more the Sim than polys.Carlos
It's not so much a question of polygons as it is textures. Fewer textures = better framerates. That's why my RSD15 can have 13,000 polygons and still run as well as anything default, if not better. It only has two textures.I think MSTS has a polygon limit though, it seems for me that once counts get close to 15,000 the export software has issues, so I keep it below that. "The F59PHI and Genesis are the lamest excuses for locomotives Amtrak has ever operated - accept it and move on. Hug an F40 before it's too late!"
Rob what everyone has said here is pretty much the "rule of thumb" as far as the actual 3d models go...... but textures (my area of expertise) tend to go no larger than 1024 x 1024....... i have not seen anything larger, and anything larger would really be un-necessary..... people with low end comps tend to use 512 x 512 textures for engines, but i have a 600 mhz machine with 384 megs of ram, and tend to accept the framerate sacrifice for texture quality, but that is just me..... the framerate drop is minor, from what i have noticed, but i also have a geforce3 graphics card...... anyway, one note about textures and alpha channels in msts, only 512 x 512 and smaller can have 8 bit (256 greyscale )alpha channels ...... for reasons not known kuju coded the game so 1024 x 1024 textures only have one alpha option, totally or none at all, god for alphable detail parts, bad for windows and other semi tranparent items.... suggestions for textures: wheels and windows on thier own small ace files ( 512 x 512 or smaller), but parts of the model with lots of detail that have no tranparencies ie boiler and tender , pipes ,etc on 1024 for high resolution....... do you have any screenshot of your models?Also, do you plan on doing a challenger? if so please contact me at dupont24montecarlo@excite.com as i have scale drawings and many prototype photos of the 3985 if you do ever intend to make this model........i will help texturing it, also lighting, physics, and sounds if you would need help with that, i will offer my services if you wish to use them, just send me an e-mail, or private message and i'll see what i can do..... sounds, lighting, and physics i already have done custom for better ops with a current challenger and can more than likely easily adapt the lighting for the new model if you decide to make it.........Hauling America one pixel at a time Bill Hemb; train sim repainter
Thanks Bill for that valuable info on graphics sizes, that was going to be my next question.Im a long way off from the point of doing any graphics but knowing how to cheat with graphics means less 3d modelling and more efficient, playable trains.As far as the Challenger goes Ill have to do a bit of research on that one. It looks similar in a lot of areas to its cousin that Ive attached so it shouldnt be too much to tackle. Highly detailed plans and photos are a big help in getting the detail as close as possible as I dont have access to anything Im modelling in real life. All of the models Ive done so far are works in progress and wont be completed for awhile yet as I wish to model some rolling stock to go with them. Ive spent the last couple of weeks glued to the screen with MSTS. Its very addictive. Ill take a rain check on the drawings you have of the challenger for now. Id certainly like to do some more of the larger locos because they are very interesting to look at from any angle.
"The F59PHI and Genesis are the lamest excuses for locomotives Amtrak has ever operated - accept it and move on. Hug an F40 before it's too late!"
Hauling America one pixel at a time
Bill Hemb; train sim repainter
