Does this look like a Baldwin?

Another lunch hour exercise slated to use Little Joe running gear.Moving America into the 19th Century!

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RE: Does this look like a Baldwin?, GaryH2, Jun-04-04, 07:07 PM, (1) RE: Does this look like a Baldwin?, OkrasaGhia, Jun-05-04, 05:10 AM, (2) RE: Does this look like a Baldwin?, TVRRMAN, Jun-06-04, 00:12 AM, (3) RE: Does this look like a Baldwin?, ssw_96, Jun-06-04, 00:50 AM, (4) RE: Does this look like a Baldwin?, jbt1024, Jun-06-04, 02:39 AM, (5) RE: Does this look like a Baldwin?, asn5000, Jun-06-04, 07:14 AM, (6) RE: Does this look like a Baldwin?, CGW409, Jun-06-04, 04:59 PM, (7) RE: Does this look like a Baldwin?, TVRRMAN, Jun-07-04, 10:40 AM, (8) RE: Does this look like a Baldwin?, KeltikSylk, Jun-07-04, 05:17 PM, (9) RE: Does this look like a Baldwin?, CGW409, Jun-07-04, 05:47 PM, (10) RE: Does this look like a Baldwin?, TVRRMAN, Jun-07-04, 09:31 PM, (11) RE: Does this look like a Baldwin?, KeltikSylk, Jun-07-04, 11:17 PM, (12) RE: Does this look like a Baldwin?, TVRRMAN, Jun-08-04, 00:55 AM, (13) RE: Does this look like a Baldwin?, KeltikSylk, Jun-08-04, 10:22 AM, (14) RE: Does this look like a Baldwin?, TVRRMAN, Jun-08-04, 11:20 AM, (15) RE: Does this look like a Baldwin?, KeltikSylk, Jun-09-04, 11:58 AM, (17) RE: Does this look like a Baldwin?, CStevens, Jun-09-04, 09:51 AM, (16) RE: Does this look like a Baldwin?, Cell0518, Jun-11-04, 01:44 AM, (18) RE: Does this look like a Baldwin?, KeltikSylk, Jun-11-04, 09:00 AM, (19)

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Oh yeah! GH

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I'd say some minor adjustments are needed but it's difficult to judge without the frame and texturing. Looks like the dges need a little rounding of.


//Okrasa
Chief Engineer
okrasa @ xtracks.tk
http://www.geocities.com/okrasaghia
http://www.xtracks.tk

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LAST EDITED ON Jun-06-04 AT 00:16 AM (EDT)

KeltikSylk,Looks great so far. For the PRR Units, they were originally delivered as 6000 HP Sets of two units drawbarred together. The lead unit of these sets always had the haracteristic PRR Trainphone antenna. Paint schemes worn were PRR 5 Stripe (Brunswick Green, Dulux Gold Lettering), and the later Single Sripe... but not until after they were downgraded to 5000 HP sets and reclassed as PRR Class BH50. Good luck on them, and if you need any help, please give the Broadway Limited Locomotive Works team a holler, and I'll send over the tech data you need...On the engine setup, I found that applying the lead and trailing units as freight cars, and the center attached to the body as the main loco with ound and cabview works extremely well.If that is a Centipede, the wheel configuration is 4-8-8-4, just to help... Thomas Pearce,
Freight Car Builder, Broadway Limited Locomotive Works

Come see our new website:
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What is that???

The best railroad there ever was

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Chad, I have no clue, sorry Frank, but I'd guess its a BH50 or a centipede Like Thomas said. Its really fun driving a old electric engine around with a few freight carsJBT #55
Frisco River Division MP 242

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Looks a bit like a centipede but I'd say its a CNJ Babyface.Conrail rules!!!

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If I'm not mistaken Frank is working on a Centipede but since the carbodies of both were similar(IIRC the babyface was shorter)I'm probably pretty sure that if we're real nice he might be persuaded to crank out a BF.Gary S

42 year old future curmudgen(Hey you kids get offa my lawn!!)

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Guys,The reason I belive that these are Baldwin Centipedes is stemming from the locations of the radiator and grills. Baldwin Centipedes came in freight and passenger versions.The freight units used the same power plant, but featured a different gear ratio from those in Passenger service. Passenger units only had the two four axle driving trucks powered, while the leading and trailing trucks were left unpowered.One notation is that many of these lasted until their retirement sometime in the 60's. Supposedly a unit or two is still running down on the Mexican National Railway using part canniballized from a sister unit shipped with it.The units only had one drawback: They suffer from some mechanical problems. Strong engines though, and well worth modeling... Along with Sharknoses... I have some info on those too...Thomas Pearce,
Freight Car Builder, Broadway Limited Locomotive Works

Come see our new website:
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LAST EDITED ON Jun-07-04 AT 05:17 PM (EDT)

Not that I was going for a mystery locomotive venue...But maybe this will help...It is a attempt to capture the odd lines of the Baldwin Centipede and though I hadn't noticed until Gary mentioned it...It is essentially the same overall shape as the "baby face". In fact, aside from the huge grilles, the main difference between the two bodywise is the length. Even the odd door heights are consistent through both types.Somehow the nose doesn't seem quite right, but it may be the other details that make the look. Hopefully I was able to capture those huge front windshields over the tiny nose.This is also the general shape of the "other" baby face, the "janus" type double enders used on the Jersey Central.The lengths and drive trains are all significantly different but this one body could be used for the three different types.Anyway, it's a start. Finishing, well that's a whole 'nother story.Moving America into the 19th Century!

www.kelticsylk.com

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I know one of the stories from their time on the PRR was that as road units they became unreliable but since the two drawbar connected locos could practicaly walk away with the yard so they were placed in hump service, only one minor problem that was revealed the first time they cleared the hump.
The rigid underframe rode up the hump and at the crest kept going up until the balance point was reached and slamming down and derailing in the process.Gary S

42 year old future curmudgen(Hey you kids get offa my lawn!!)

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LAST EDITED ON Jun-07-04 AT 09:37 PM (EDT)

CGW409,Didn't know that story about them. I heard the one though were they were somewhat prone to problems related to their prime movers.For those with interest, when the Pennsy Dieselized in the 40's and 50's, it bought from all the major manufacturers. One unique unit in the Pennsy's diesel fleet were some six axle DR6-4-20 Sharknose units. The 28 A Units and 9 B units were the only Passenger Sharknoses ever built.So or anyone looking for a railroad with a little of almost everything, the Pennsy is definitely a road to look into...One things for sure though: While the Centipedes were massive beasts, they sure packed a good bit of horsepower. Please, guys, kep up the excellent work on these quality add-ons. Kelticsylk,If you do a trainphone antenna for on the PRR Version of the Centipede (Should you decide to do one) the asiest way to do it would be a freightanim tag. So it would be able to be applid or removed, pending the end user's decision... Just sharing an idea...)Thomas Pearce,
Freight Car Builder, Broadway Limited Locomotive Works

Come see our new website:
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Sort of a "rough" proof of concept models...

The centipede shell with the undercarriage from the Great Northern W1.
The "janus" built from a modified centipede shell and a set of trucks from an Alco Dl-109.
A really cheesy Pennsy wannabe made from a shortened centipede shell and some trucks off my Silver King (EMC EA).Moving America into the 19th Century!

www.kelticsylk.com

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KeltikSylk,Your of to a good start on them so far. One note though: The PRR's Centipedes wore a Brunswick Green, never a tuscan red. I believe the Centipedes were delivered to the PRR Wearing a Bruncwick Green (RGB 17:26:23 on the 3D Trains Paint Chart) with a Delux Gold Five Stripe scheme in 1948. The Newer paint scheme, introduced in the Mid to late 50's was also Brunswick Green, but with a single Delux Gold Stripe. Good Job though so far. Once, again, just trying to share more valuable advice.... Please keep up th xcellent Work....Thomas Pearce,
Freight Car Builder, Broadway Limited Locomotive Works

Come see our new website:
http://www.bllw.100freemb.com

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Boy, I thought the Milwaukee fans were tough Glad I noted it was a "chessy pennsy wannabe".Didn't know 3D Trains had a color chart...Thanks!Those 5 stripes are gonna be tough, especially where they converge on the nose. The multiple stripes on the SAL scheme are giving me fits.Thanks for the advice. I appreciate the help.Moving America into the 19th Century!

www.kelticsylk.com

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If you need any more help, feel free to ask. Personally, I'm glad to see someone build a replica of these neglected and ignored beasts... as they deserve a proper place in our file library. If you need some technical information on them whenever it does come time, I also have some notes that have all of this on them. I'm just glad I can be os fome help to someone out there...Thomas Pearce,
Freight Car Builder, Broadway Limited Locomotive Works

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http://www.bllw.100freemb.com

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Well, I gave everyone's suggestions a shot and got nowhere. I think that the major problem is the cab itself. The Baldwins are old enough that the technology for curved windshields wasn't quite there yet. Auto's from the 30's and early 40's had flatter windows and locomotives were no different. Early EMC, Alco, and Baldwin products tended to use flat planes of glass in their windshields (early Zephyrs are a good example). This creates a very distinctive look, which it turns out is very difficult to recreate."Ay, there's the rub"...The cab of the centipede and sisters resembles the old Mack Thermodyne trucks and are equally hard to model. It's the transitions that are the issue. High crowns on the roof, curved corners, and flat window frames. I've been able to create the flat windows somewhat by rotating "panes" of flat polygon. That was easy. But the window also appears to curve top and bottom. I think this is just the effect of camera lens in the photos and may not be as extreme as it looks. That doesn't help much though. Along the top and bottom of the windshield you have compound curves and I still haven't figured out the gymnastics required.This exercise was a big help in other areas and answered some issues I was having on the DL109 cab in the same area.So the Baldwin will continue as a lunch hour pursuit while I work out a technique. In the meantime I have several heavy electrics in production.Frank MusickMoving America into the 19th Century!

www.kelticsylk.com

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Thank you so much for starting this project. This is a definite need for MSTS. The Seaboard Air Line paint job looks great!!I'm a big fan of the Baby Face Baldwin DR6-4-1500, I checked one of my locomotive source books and found the following, "Seaboard Air Line purchased 3 Baldwin vest-pocket passenger A-units in 1947. The DR-6-4-1500s used commonwealth A1A trucks which made it ideal for light passenger service. The units used the same babyface cab that had been introduced on the Centipede in 1945. The overall length for coupler to coupler was 61 feet." Source: Seaboard Motive Power, by Warren L. Calloway & Paul K. Withers.Please let me know if you need any additional information.

Carey
Seaboard Air Line
Tampa - Wildwood
88 miles of track work, roads, rivers, lakes, and bridges completed. 37 miles of static scenery complete.

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Looks interesting. What RRs used it?
PLEASE Visit->

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I know that Pennsylvania, Seaboard, and Jersey Central owned Baldwins of this cab configuration. There were three varieties that I know of. the "centipede" (4-D-D-4), the "baby face" (B-B), and the double ended "janus"(C-C). The centipede was a monster unit, while the baby face and janus where more conventional in size.That's pretty much all I know, I hope I got the wheel designations correct.Still trying to get the curves right. It's one of those cases where following the drawing doesn't work. They just don't capture that droopy eyed "puppy" look.Moving America into the 19th Century!

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