Double Headed Steam Locos

I have tried on several occasions to move heavy steam powered trains over the WV&O with little success. Double heading steam locomotives seems to have little or no effect on performance and pulling power. Multiple diesels do appear to add power and handle heavier trains. The only solution I could find was that multiple diesels (.eng files) are not separated by tenders (.wag files) in a consist. Therefore I have been working on converting the scotsman tender to an .eng file similar to what MLT does with their D&H caboose to create smoke. I believe this may allow us to move heavier consists with steam and would love to hear from others who are experimenting in this area.

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RE: Double Headed Steam Locos, CumbresEngineer, Jun-04-04, 08:32 AM, (1) RE: Double Headed Steam Locos, plainsman, Jun-04-04, 10:06 AM, (2) RE: Double Headed Steam Locos, mjs2101, Jun-04-04, 02:22 PM, (3) RE: Double Headed Steam Locos, Coonskin, Jun-04-04, 08:31 PM, (4) RE: Double Headed Steam Locos, CumbresEngineer, Jun-04-04, 11:33 PM, (5) RE: Double Headed Steam Locos, Coonskin, Jun-05-04, 01:51 AM, (6) RE: Double Headed Steam Locos, CumbresEngineer, Jun-05-04, 12:07 PM, (9) RE: Double Headed Steam Locos, mjs2101, Jun-05-04, 02:29 AM, (7) RE: Double Headed Steam Locos, baldwin, Jun-05-04, 10:14 AM, (8)

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I seem to get more power out of another locomotive. Try taking one K-36 up to Cumbres on the Cumbres Pass rout, with 25 cars. Won't do it. But add a rear helper on that train, and with the right procedures, you can start the train. And that's how it was in those days, freights were heavy and those locomotives were pushed to their maximum. All you have to do is forget the cylinder cocks, which the guys do at the Cumbres & Toltec today, they only use them when they have been sitting somewhere for more than 10 minutes, which is all you need to do. Just forget the cylinder cocks, sand down, release the brakes before you give it any throttle, let it roll back what you think is a couple inches or so, bout' a foot, then whip the throttle out wide open. You can use that same technique for almost any heavy train. Pulled by steam locomotives. And if your on any kind of hill....and if it's not raining.....lot's of factors. Maybe you should triple head? How many cars?
Kevin Bush,

I will have my hand on the throttle of a K-36 very soon Mon Freunds!

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Hi Harry,
Your problem is in the way the .eng files are set up. You don't mention which locomotives you are using? For trailing steam units you have to trick the sim a bit (the Brits that wrote the sim didn't really think about locomotives of the size and force encountered iin the US). Try adding this line to TRAILING UNITS ONLY, right after the friction lines.
AntiSlip ( 1 )
If you are running a mallet (two .eng file locomotive), you will need to also add the line to second part of the unit only.
Also make sure someone didn't mistakenly think the numwheels parameter was supposed to be the actual number of wheels (a common but bad mistake). If that is the case, change it to 4 (correct with the way most adhesion lines are written).
Bob

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Hey Bob,
With the NumWheels line, it should match the number of entries in the Adheasion line? For example, looking at the NKP 2-8-4: Adheasion ( 0.21 0.37 2 0 )
DerailRailHeight ( 4cm )
DerailRailForce ( 2.5*202.71kN )
DerailBufferForce ( 400kN )
WheelRadius ( 0.45m )
NumWheels ( 1 )Should the NumWheels be changed to 4? Also, in the documents it states that a value of between 4-12 can be used (with the editing of the Adheasion line for desired effect). Have you found that, for steam locomotives, 4 can be used effectively in most cases? or is this mainly for helper or ai units?Thanks!Mykel

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"Have you found that, for steam locomotives, 4 can be used effectively in most cases? or is this mainly for helper or ai units?"It varies from engine to engine, wheel type to wheel type. The "Numwheels" figures are MODIFIERS to the Adheasion values. The Numwheel values make wholesale changes. The Adheasion values can be more subtle.The problem with steam and helpers is the wheelslip. Sanding doesn't work for trailing units. You will need to set up an AI engine file for each steam engine that you want to run as a helper. Using my North Arkansas power as an example:Eng file: StLNA3.eng (St. Louis & North Arkansas, Engine #3)Taking the above eng file, I clone it, and change the name to "AIStLNA3.eng"I then go into the eng file and change all appearances of "StLNA3" to "AIStLNA3"....EXCEPT... (And this is important.)The line that calls for the shape file. It MUST remain "StLNA3.s"Lastly, change the "Name" line to "AIStLNA3", or "AI St&NA #3", etc. The above will make a new engine appear in AE Consist Editor called "AIStLNA3" (or whatever you named in in the "Name" line). This will differentiate it from your player engine.Now it's time to make it stick to the rails. Two ways to do this in the eng file, or, use both ways and weld it to the rail!1. Add the "AntiSlip (1)" line just under the Friction values.2. Change both Numwheels to 1.While you're at it, you might as well remove the "Cabview" line in the AI eng file, no need in making the sim load all that info. (Helps your CPU.) The line calling for cab sounds can also be removed.You now have an AI engine that will work its guts out for you haulin' that tonnage train!Andre MingVisit VSC's temporary web page at: http://www.vscalecreations.comVisit VSC's Forum at: http://www.3DTrains.com

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Yeah the helpers slipping is a problem. I have noticed on most locomotives in the sim you can't go over 71% throttle, without the helper starting to slip....stupid...Kevin Bush,

I will have my hand on the throttle of a K-36 very soon Mon Freunds!

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Fix it!(See above.)
Andre MingVisit VSC's temporary web page at: http://www.vscalecreations.comVisit VSC's Forum at: http://www.3DTrains.com

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I tried it, didn't work. I don't know how you find all those lines of info in a .eng file...too much info there for me. Kevin Bush,

I will have my hand on the throttle of a K-36 very soon Mon Freunds!

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Thanks for the reply! I am familiar with the basics to creating an AI engine (trying to go throughout the trainset folder creating AI engines), but was not sure about the best way to get engines so they don't slip so much. Thanks for tips. Maybe now I won't have to spend so much time watching the second engine for wheelslip! Do you have any tips on getting the wheel rotation correct for AI's? To me it seems that as speed increases, the helpers wheels rotate faster than the players. Or could this simply be a result of "slow" wheel slip?Mykel

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Mykel
For steam locos only.For an AI type engine in the player train the wheel size needs to be the same as the player engine. This along with the other mod described by Andre will give you the correct rotation speed. For an AI hauled train the driver size needs to be multiplied by 6.2 to get the correct animation speed. ( Do not apply this to diesels with animated fans )Beer is not a matter of life and death. It is much more serious than that.
mervyn.

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