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Brakes application

Started by tfox 15 posts 6 min read

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tfoxMember since Dec-17-03 · 13 posts

Hello,An example :If i apply 10% of brakes..my engine reduce speed, it's ok.But i want more brakes if i apply more percentage. ex : 65 %Wich parametre exactly i much change for that ?Thank's,François.

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RE: Brakes application, plainsman, Dec-18-03, 06:49 PM, (1) RE: Brakes application, cdntrains, Dec-18-03, 06:57 PM, (2) RE: Brakes application, derekmorton, Dec-18-03, 11:21 PM, (3) RE: Brakes application, tfox, Dec-19-03, 06:23 AM, (4) RE: Brakes application, derekmorton, Dec-19-03, 06:53 PM, (5) RE: Brakes application, plainsman, Dec-19-03, 10:02 PM, (6) RE: Brakes application, tfox, Dec-20-03, 07:54 AM, (7) RE: Brakes application, tfox, Dec-20-03, 07:15 PM, (8) RE: Brakes application, derekmorton, Dec-20-03, 10:12 PM, (9) RE: Brakes application, plainsman, Dec-20-03, 10:27 PM, (10) RE: Brakes application, derekmorton, Dec-20-03, 11:08 PM, (11) RE: Brakes application, plainsman, Dec-21-03, 00:02 AM, (12) RE: Brakes application, tchouftchouf, Dec-21-03, 03:57 AM, (13) RE: Brakes application, tfox, Dec-21-03, 12:58 PM, (14)

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derekmortonCharter Member · 2367 posts

RE: Brakes application

François,Westinghouse brakes have a minimum reduction of 6lb, I expect this is the 10% you are talking about. If you want more brakes, you have to release more air.Derek

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tfoxMember since Dec-17-03 · 13 posts

RE: Brakes application

LAST EDITED ON Dec-19-03 AT 06:32 AM (EST)

Hello,Sorry for my english, i'm French......Well, i want to apply brake.
I press the key, and i applyed 10% of brake.My engine brakes, and reduce speed, it's ok.But if a press the key another time, to put more brakes, exemple 65%, my engine doesn't brake more !
It's the same thing like 10%, and i want more application, when i press the key...
Also, i want to know wich parameter is..Thank's..François.

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derekmortonCharter Member · 2367 posts

RE: Brakes application

François,I would be suprised if it didn't brake more.
Changing the brake parameter won't help you.
You need to start braking earlier.Can you tell us what engine, load and route location you are having trouble with.Derek

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tfoxMember since Dec-17-03 · 13 posts

RE: Brakes application

Hello, Plainsman,>I made one change, don't know if it has any effect, please
>let me know if this solved your problem? I try, it's great !!Thank's a lot !Best regards,François.

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plainsmanCharter Member · 2718 posts

RE: Brakes application

Hi Derek,
In the electric model the line:
MaxBrakeForce ( 44.2kN )
appears twice. The first file only had the the line in the braking section, but not just before the adhesion line. I don't know why it needed to be in there twice, but then we don't know why Kuju did a lot of things?
Bob

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derekmortonCharter Member · 2367 posts

RE: Brakes application

Mmmmm, I will keep that one in mind for later.
The acela has it in twice as well, once at 150kN and the second at 180kN, which has to be 3 times what it should, would you concur?Derek

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plainsmanCharter Member · 2718 posts

RE: Brakes application

LAST EDITED ON Dec-21-03 AT 00:20 AM (EST)

Hi Derek,
The Acela probably brakes pretty hard, I would guess it ought to be 90-105kN, but that is without a lot of specific knowledge of that locomotive. You will note that the 44.2kN is the freight service setting for a comparatively light French electric. JLC says it operates at about 65kN in passenger service. In general, late model dedicated passenger locomotives will have a lot of braking power.
Bob

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tchouftchoufCharter Member · 157 posts

RE: Brakes application

Hello,
I'm testing my modifications and will probably finish today.
- For a loco 25501 to 25587 without combined rehostatic brake, the brake force in "Passenger" position is 62.7 kN
- For a loco 25588 to 25694 with combined rehostatic brake, the brake force + electric brake in "Passenger" position is 79,5 kN. Due to a "KUJU bug" you must make a choise between combined and manned electric brake, so I prefer to use manned and take 79,5 kN for brake force.
- For all the serie 25501 to 25694 the brake force in "Freight" position is always 44.2 kN.
- The other problem is that all the French modern locos except somme yard diesel have distributors, but because an other "KUJU bug" is you set a distributor in the engine file you will not have independant brake! So I let triple valve with hight charging rate, this is not a big problem since the rule book say to bail off the loco brake, you can graduate the brake force application but you can't make graduated release...
- Exemples:- Freight serviceBrakeEquipmentType ( "Triple_valve, Auxilary_reservoir, Emergency_brake_reservoir" )
BrakeSystemType ( "Air_single_pipe" )
BrakeCylinderPressureForMaxBrakeBrakeForce ( 55 )TripleValveRatio ( 2.5 )

MaxBrakeForce ( 44.2kN )
MaxApplicationRate ( 0.43 )
MaxReleaseRate ( 0.47 )
MaxAuxilaryChargingRate ( 20 )EmergencyResCapacity ( 0.07 )
EmergencyResVolumeMultiplier ( 0.013 )
EmergencyBrakeResMaxPressure ( 72.5 )
EmergencyResChargingRate ( 1 )
- Passenger service 25501 to 25587BrakeEquipmentType ( "Triple_valve, Auxilary_reservoir, Emergency_brake_reservoir" )
BrakeSystemType ( "Air_single_pipe" )
BrakeCylinderPressureForMaxBrakeBrakeForce ( 55 )TripleValveRatio ( 2.5 )

MaxBrakeForce ( 62.7kN )
MaxApplicationRate ( 1.71 )
MaxReleaseRate ( 2.1 )
MaxAuxilaryChargingRate ( 20 )EmergencyResCapacity ( 0.07 )
EmergencyResVolumeMultiplier ( 0.013 )
EmergencyBrakeResMaxPressure ( 72.5 )
EmergencyResChargingRate ( 1 )
- Passenger service 25586 to 25694BrakeEquipmentType ( "Triple_valve, Auxilary_reservoir, Emergency_brake_reservoir" )
BrakeSystemType ( "Air_single_pipe" )
BrakeCylinderPressureForMaxBrakeBrakeForce ( 55 )TripleValveRatio ( 2.5 )

MaxBrakeForce ( 79.5kN )
MaxApplicationRate ( 1.71 )
MaxReleaseRate ( 2.1 )
MaxAuxilaryChargingRate ( 20 )EmergencyResCapacity ( 0.07 )
EmergencyResVolumeMultiplier ( 0.013 )
EmergencyBrakeResMaxPressure ( 72.5 )
EmergencyResChargingRate ( 1 )
I forgot to say that you must make this change in the engine file:AirBrakesMainMaxAirPressure( 130 )
AirBrakesCompressorRestartPressure( 115 )
EngineBrakesControllerMaxSystemPressure( 72.5 )
TrainBrakesControllerMaxSystemPressure( 72.5 )JLC

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tfoxMember since Dec-17-03 · 13 posts

RE: Brakes application

Hello JLC,I tried the : Passenger service 25586 to 25694That better for me, but one think.When i graduated more brakes, i woukd like a little bit more application.So, what parameter must i changed ?François.

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