The Alerter - Updated

LAST EDITED ON Oct-06-03 AT 03:15 PM (EDT)

Well, I am sure most of us don't use the Alerter all that much. I've slowly have been getting used to the thing after doing some tweaks to the Vigilance Monitor.Now, the fun thing about the Alerter system is. It various per company/locomotive.I asked a few guys that works for BN/UP, and something kinda funny popped up as were talking about it. Every Locomotive *Except for the Dash 9s for BNSF and UP SD70M's* were different.Dash 9/SD70M Alerter starts around 75 seconds, dumps trainline air to Full Service at 90 seconds.The other models of locomotives various... most are the same as the above.. others *such as the CEFX SD9043MACs go off every 15 seconds...*if anybody has anymore info.. would be much welcomed.Tanks alot

Brian E. Bundridge
NALW Quality Control Manager

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RE: The Alerter, andrewpickell, Oct-03-03, 09:39 PM, (1) RE: The Alerter, Macster, Oct-03-03, 11:31 PM, (2) RE: The Alerter, cjmaclean, Oct-04-03, 04:52 PM, (3) RE: The Alerter, krswen, Oct-04-03, 07:45 PM, (4) RE: The Alerter, Macster, Oct-04-03, 11:58 PM, (5) RE: The Alerter, JonN, Oct-05-03, 01:49 AM, (6) RE: The Alerter, krswen, Oct-05-03, 08:45 AM, (7) RE: The Alerter, Macster, Oct-05-03, 12:40 PM, (8) RE: The Alerter, chucksc, Oct-06-03, 12:07 PM, (9) RE: The Alerter, Macster, Oct-06-03, 03:06 PM, (10) RE: The Alerter, westerngy, Oct-06-03, 04:33 PM, (11) RE: The Alerter, Franklin, Oct-06-03, 06:28 PM, (12) RE: The Alerter, smp11512, Oct-06-03, 07:09 PM, (13) RE: The Alerter, JoeDiamond, Oct-06-03, 07:23 PM, (15) RE: The Alerter, fwbryan, Oct-09-03, 10:55 AM, (16) RE: The Alerter - Updated, NW_611, Oct-06-03, 07:19 PM, (14)

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Brian,Next week I'll talk to the guys at school that run CPR's SD40-2 and AC4400 simulators and see what I can find out.- Andrew

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Thanks Andrew.

Brian E. Bundridge
NALW Quality Control Manager

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The German alerter system - called "Sifa" for "Sicherheitsfahrschaltung" - works with 30-second intervals, IIRC. This means you have to push and release the Sifa button every 30 seconds. If you fail to do so, you will first get an alert sound, and if you should still fail to react after three or four seconds, brakes will be applied automatically. There were several versions of this system in the past, each working with different interval lengths, and if my information is correct, the former East German railways used a Sifa variant which ran with irregular intervals, meaning that you would get an attention sound at random intervals and then had to push the Sifa button. I think that's about the most, uhm, effective way to keep an engineer awake ...
Dominik Mann Visit www.bahn.de - http://mercurio.iet.unipi.it/ - www.eisenbahnforum.deModerator at www.forum.nahverkehr-ffm.de

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Brian ..... what were your tweaks? I've wanted to enable the alerter since it really is a fact of life in the real cab. On most newer locos it goes off after a predetermined time (I think about 30 seconds, but someone told me it's randomized as well) if one of the following has NOT happened:Operating the bell, horn, reverser or throttle
Movement of either brake handle or bail-off
Change in dynamic brake (and it takes remarkably little motion)
Pressing one of the "soft keys" on the Operator's IFD (screen)
Keying the radio mike or handsetA red rectangle appears on the screen below the speedo and a 25 second countdown starts. It flashes for the first five seconds, then an alarm sound begins as well.There are other visual cues in the cab as well. Some locos have them up over the stairs down to the alcove (between the sun visors). CP has a rectangular box at thr right corner of the windshield.Failure to acknowledge results in a penalty brake application at full service rate.In MSTS if you are "out of the cab" does it still operate? Or only in cabview?
krswen

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I'll post the specs when I get some more info done.. found out some other stuff.. need to change things around.

Brian E. Bundridge
NALW Quality Control Manager

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LAST EDITED ON Oct-05-03 AT 01:50 AM (EDT)

>In MSTS if you are "out of the cab" does it still operate? Or only in cabview?It operates out of the cab as well. Several times has my train been brought to a halt because I went to View #2 to enjoy the scenery and forgot to press the alerter key periodically while I was there.Jonathan Nikiforovs.
Milepost 180, CP Belleville Sub.Repainter for Yonder Locomotive Works.

"A crictic is a man who creates nothing and thereby feels qualified to judge the work of creative men. There is logic in this; he is unbiased - he hates all creative people equally." - Lazarus Long

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Hmmmmmm .... that sucks! Hope they fix that in MSTS2.krswen

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The same thing has happened to me as well.. go out in View 4 *before I changed the alerter* and suddenly the train would slow down.. fast.. it's like.. crappppppp(sit for 15 minutes pumping up the trainline air)

Brian E. Bundridge
NALW Quality Control Manager

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>The same thing has happened to me as well.. go out in View 4
>*before I changed the alerter* and suddenly the train would
>slow down.. fast.. it's like.. crappppppp
>
>(sit for 15 minutes pumping up the trainline air) Which is why Bob and I stopped enabling the damn thing in our physics... Too many complaints, and that's just Bob and I complaining.. Can't imagine if Rocker or BCDEF or some of the other luminaries around here had to deal with it... LOL!
Chuck Schneider
(Virtual) CEO
North American (Virtual) Locomotive Works

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LAST EDITED ON Oct-06-03 AT 03:07 PM (EDT)

Actually, with how I have everything setup now, I haven't had the problem at all now.Now, when your stopped in a siding, waiting for a train, you no longer have to worry about the alerter going off while your off making your favorite Train sim snack.VigilanceMonitor(
MonitoringDeviceMonitorTimeLimit( 90 ) <--- Changed
MonitoringDeviceAlarmTimeLimit( 75 ) <--- Changed
MonitoringDevicePenaltyTimeLimit( 0 )
MonitoringDeviceCriticalLevel( 0 )
MonitoringDeviceResetLevel( 0 )
MonitoringDeviceAppliesFullBrake( 1 )
MonitoringDeviceAppliesEmergencyBrake( 0 )
MonitoringDeviceAppliesCutsPower( 0 )
MonitoringDeviceAppliesShutsDownEngine( 0 )
MonitoringDeviceResetOnZeroSpeed( 1 ) <--- Added
)

Brian E. Bundridge
NALW Quality Control Manager

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Brian as per our chats I've tried what you discovered and I now find by changing to these values and adding that one line that the Alerter now goes off between 65 and 70 secs.
Just Rollin Down The Tracks Dale

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While I didn't change the numbers for the time limits, I did add the "MonitoringDeviceResetOnZeroSpeed( 1 )" line to the Acela.eng file, went into the sim, and never saw the Alerter display pop up while the train wasn't in motion.I've applied it to all of the .eng files that have a functional Alerter, and doing so made it a bit useful and also a bit more realistic! Thanks for that tip, Mac!

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Thanks for the Update on that Brian , Now I have to go to every SINGLE engine file if I want them updated
Southern Pacific will live on forever in the hearts of the Red and Gray Railfans

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On the prototype, using the Metra F40PH in this example, the alerter is overridden when the independent brake is applied beyond a certain amount, I believe it's somewhere around 30 lbs. in the brake cylinder. A quick search through the loadstr.hdr file revealed the following key:"MonitoringDeviceResetOnBrakeFullyOn".I have not tested it yet but this looks as if it would provide functionality similar to the prototype.The speed being zero does not reset the alerter for safety reasons. If the locomotive was left stopped without the brakes being set the alerter would still activate to make the crew aware of this condition as the locomotive could roll away.Conn McCarthy
Train Artisan

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Did anyone test this "BrakesFullyOn" line succesfully? It disabled the alerter on mine. But the "ZeroSpeed" works, and makes the alerter much more realistic. I suppose that if you started to coast, you would no longer be at zero speed.<g>fwbryan

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Macster et al, thanks for this next step in tweaking the game. Three questions:1. When did the Federal government mandate their use?
2. Would they have been retrofitted to existing locomotives? I'm trying to figure out if I can exempt large groups of my collection from being subject to alerters.
3. How do I completely disable alerters for particular engines, all while leaving the alerter turned 'on' in the options and applying your fix? The situation I'm thinking of is say a GG-1 intended to simulate operations in 1949, where I'm certain that these things didn't exist. I don't want to have to worry about hitting the alerter on that, but I would appreciate having to hit the alerter on a D9-40CW while gliding down grade from Bluefield, and without having to go and turn the alerter off in the options.Right now, my only theory as to disabling the thing on a locomotive by locomotive basis is to go into the ENG file and remove the alerter section completely. Please advise.

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