Electric Motor Dynamic Brakes and F5

LAST EDITED ON Apr-21-03 AT 11:58 PM (EDT)

I have a problem with the physics on one of our projects...
The problem concerns the proper display and operation of dynamic brakes on an Electric Motor (Locomotive to you guys not living on the NEC)....
Basically when dynamic brakes are defined in the ENG file <F5> always displays <setup> and if <autobailoff> is true then the locomotive brakes are never activated and the brake cylinder pressure on the Motor stays at or about 0.... It can be worked around by disabling <AutoBailOff>.... However while the dynamics and the gauges work properly under those circumstances <F5> stays "stuck" in <setup>.....
Now I vaguely remember some posts about Electrics not properly modeling the dynamic brake function ( A Kuju undocumented Feature?? )
The problem is the only post I can find when searching the library concerns SMS files....
Does anyone know of any references I might have missed documenting this Bug????? Or proposed work-around?????Thanks For the Help!Chuck Schneider
(Virtual) CEO
North American (Virtual) Locomotive Works

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RE: Electric Motor Dynamic Brakes and F5, sooner, Apr-22-03, 02:32 AM, (1) RE: Electric Motor Dynamic Brakes and F5, cjmaclean, Apr-22-03, 09:01 AM, (2) RE: Electric Motor Dynamic Brakes and F5, chucksc, Apr-22-03, 10:53 AM, (3) RE: Electric Motor Dynamic Brakes and F5, ctillier, Apr-22-03, 10:55 AM, (4) RE: Electric Motor Dynamic Brakes and F5, chucksc, Apr-22-03, 02:59 PM, (5) RE: Electric Motor Dynamic Brakes and F5, ctillier, Apr-22-03, 03:44 PM, (6) RE: Electric Motor Dynamic Brakes and F5, chucksc, Apr-22-03, 05:11 PM, (8) RE: Electric Motor Dynamic Brakes and F5, ctillier, Apr-22-03, 08:47 PM, (10) RE: Electric Motor Dynamic Brakes and F5, chucksc, Apr-23-03, 11:40 AM, (11) RE: Electric Motor Dynamic Brakes and F5, cjmaclean, Apr-22-03, 05:11 PM, (7) RE: Electric Motor Dynamic Brakes and F5, chucksc, Apr-22-03, 05:19 PM, (9)

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Well, this is certainly over my head, and I can only say that it's good news that you're up late working on a project because it will no doubt be an awesome addition to the sim. However, on an unrelated topic, while trying to research this issue I came across an earlier exchange on the forum in which you were referred to as "Long Boiler Chuck," and as a man of the world myself I've some curiosity as to how someone would pick up this particular moniker. Any enlightenment on the subject would be appreciated.

bud

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Chuck,
I can't really tell you how it was done, but if I'm not terribly mistaken, the TGV Duplex by Edouard Staniczek and his team has a functioning electric brake controlled via the combined throttle/brake lever. When you pull the lever back to zero and on backward, you will notice the train beginning to slow down, with the deceleration rate determined by how far you pull the lever back. I think you couldn't go terribly wrong by taking a look at how this train is set up, or ask Edouard how he did it.HTH
Dominik Mann Visit www.tssf.de - www.bahn.de - http://mercurio.iet.unipi.it/ - www.eisenbahnforum.de

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Thanks Dominik
I looked at his and he is apparently using "blended brakes" just like the default Kuju Acela Express and HHP8..
That works!
The problem lies in getting "separate" dynamic brakes to work.Chuck Schneider
(Virtual) CEO
North American (Virtual) Locomotive Works

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Chuck,Turn on the wipers. No joke.cheers

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Clem

http://www.tillier.net/speedworks/index.html

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Don't scare me like that Clem....Chuck Schneider
(Virtual) CEO
North American (Virtual) Locomotive Works

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Chuck,I am dead serious. That's the way it works on the real AEEM-7.cheers

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Clem

http://www.tillier.net/speedworks/index.html

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I know Clem, I forgot!
It just never ceases to amaze me what kind of junk they are peddling as production code.... SheeshBTW if you don't want the user to have to remember to hit the V key before using the brakes you can change your wiper entry from 010 in the eng file to 011 and it will do the same thing.... Just if your loco has wipers then you get to watch them work all the time...Chuck Schneider
(Virtual) CEO
North American (Virtual) Locomotive Works

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Chuck,From my experience the wipers are only needed to get the dynamic brake setting to show correctly in the F5 data. Fortunately (I never thought I'd say this sentence some day) the dynamic brakes do work with the wipers off.If you have any questions about the blended brake setup in the TGV Duplex, drop me a line. I did the physics for Edouard based on my payware TGV's.cheers

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Clem

http://www.tillier.net/speedworks/index.html

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Thanks Clem I may do that when I get home this weekend..I may send you the ones I have so you can see how I "solved" (see picture of burning goat and sounds of voodoo chants) the Blended brake challenge...Chuck Schneider
(Virtual) CEO
North American (Virtual) Locomotive Works

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>I looked at his and he is apparently using "blended brakes" just like the default Kuju Acela Express and HHP8..
Uhm...but the default Acela and HHP do not have a combined throttle/brake lever (or "drive/brake lever", as we call it over here), do they? *scratches head*I also just remembered that the designers of the upcoming Glacier Express add-on claim to have developed a working simulation of a "recuperation brake" - meaning a dynamic/electric brake which has the added capability of feeding the electric energy gained during an application back into the catenary, though the latter feature is, of course, not supported by TS. I wonder how the designers managed to pull this off.Dominik Mann Visit www.tssf.de - www.bahn.de - http://mercurio.iet.unipi.it/ - www.eisenbahnforum.de

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Blended brakes are different than a combined controller....a combined controller has 2 functions (usually Power and Dynamic or Resistive or Regenerative brakes) on the single lever...Blended brakes (on the real thing and supposedly in MSTS) puts a computer program between the brake handle and the brakes...
What it does is look and see what amount of braking the engineer/driver is calling for and then cuts in the appropriate amount of dynamics to produce that braking force as necessary it will "ADD" Train Brakes into the equation... So that the computer is deciding whether it needs dynamics or air brakes or some combination added together and what proportion of each to produce the braking force the engineer wants....Some Things with Blended brakes in the real world are
Acela Express
HHP 8
ALPS 46
ALPS 44
AEM 7
Genesis I/II(P40, P32acDM and P42)
Some F40s (later build phase II or III IIRC)
RP 39/40 and other MK Commuter rebuilds of GP40 and F40
Chuck Schneider
(Virtual) CEO
North American (Virtual) Locomotive Works

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