%@@##$ Uid Errors!

OK Guys
back again got the final caboose to wheigh in at just over 6 K on the poly count,converted no prob (or so I thought) made up a consist and got.
Can't add car cgw605(uid200001)to world
What the heck am I doing wrong? no surfaces are untextured and the little pic doesn't show up when building the consist in AE.
I'm working with TSM.
Please help me guys,she's a sweet lil hack if I can just get it to work.
Thanks in advanceGary S

"Some say this country's just out for a fight. After 9/11 man I'd have to say thats right"
"Have You Forgotten"
Darryl Worley

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RE: %@@##$ UID ERRORS!!!!!, linkj, Apr-20-03, 11:30 PM, (1) RE: %@@##$ UID ERRORS!!!!!, linkj, Apr-20-03, 11:41 PM, (3) RE: %@@##$ UID ERRORS!!!!!, linkj, Apr-21-03, 01:52 AM, (4) RE: %@@##$ UID ERRORS!!!!!, Stew, Apr-20-03, 11:39 PM, (2) RE: %@@##$ UID ERRORS!!!!!, baldwin, Apr-21-03, 03:06 PM, (5) RE: %@@##$ UID ERRORS!!!!!, linkj, Apr-21-03, 03:17 PM, (6) RE: %@@##$ UID ERRORS!!!!!, CGW409, Apr-21-03, 07:44 PM, (7) RE: %@@##$ UID ERRORS!!!!!, linkj, Apr-21-03, 07:52 PM, (8) RE: %@@##$ UID ERRORS!!!!!, linkj, Apr-21-03, 08:09 PM, (9) RE: %@@##$ UID ERRORS!!!!!, CGW409, Apr-22-03, 06:06 PM, (13) RE: %@@##$ UID ERRORS!!!!!, CGW409, Apr-21-03, 08:12 PM, (10) RE: %@@##$ UID ERRORS!!!!!, baldwin, Apr-22-03, 04:32 PM, (11) RE: %@@##$ UID ERRORS!!!!!, CGW409, Apr-22-03, 06:03 PM, (12) RE: %@@##$ UID ERRORS!!!!!, Magick_maker, Apr-22-03, 08:38 PM, (14) RE: %@@##$ UID ERRORS!!!!!, CGW409, Apr-23-03, 05:48 PM, (15) RE: %@@##$ UID ERRORS!!!!!, linkj, Apr-23-03, 05:53 PM, (16)

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An area I'd start with is ensuring your part parent relationships are not out of hand (too many different ones, multiple levels, or animated objects mated to the wrong parent). Another that has been known to cause UID errors is getting your work-copy ace files mixed up with what's used in MSTS...TSM often screws them up so I keep clean versions in a side folder to insert each time I make a new TS object. An often critical step, and as I read the earlier post on your caboose this applied, is to ensure your axes are centered and reset (in most cases) on complex parts. Straightening out the poly vectors sometimes is miraculous. I may not have said that technically correct, but try working through each part (except your main one which must be centered to origin baseline) and resetting the axes. If you have repetitive complex parts (like seats in a passenger car) it often works better for me to join them (but you lose the ability to tweak texturing when you do, so keep a copy for tweaking in a side file). Finally, I have had this problem on occasion when mixing alpha and trans channel modes that for whatever reason decide to be incompatible in that particular shape file...not always, but sometimes.Seems like there's no such thing as a standard solution nor can you ever know where that "absolute wall" is (only when you're past it) when you are working with the TSM/MSTS gods...just be careful not to insult them. Good luck!Aloha, Jeff Link
Island Electric - West

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Just re-read your original post. Another area that may be giving you problems is if you still have 3D shaped railings, grabs, ladders, etc. In less complex units that will work, but everything you've mentioned about the caboose sounds complex. One way to handle them is by drawing railings on your ace file and using alpha templating for the cutout, usually works pretty well, and you go from many-poly'd rounded pieces to a 6-poly/no strange angle part that TSM and MSTS like much better. But even better, if you can, use art on your side, end, or roof images to show them...it can be miraculous what you can do with just a thin pixel line plus another for shadow. Can't tell you how many beautiful and perfect parts I've had to abandon because for whatever reason it crashed through the double secret TSM/MSTS stability threshhold. Just a couple more thoughts.Aloha, Jeff Link
Island Electric - West

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If I may make one other suggestion... Has been my experience with quite a few TSM locos or cars completed now that it's fairly wise to get your basic main body, bogies, and wheels together (the three key main elements) early on, primitive state, make the initial TS object and get it up and running in MSTS, doesn't even have to be textured yet (will show the blank.ace-blue), you can add it to a consist. Reason is, I've noticed some things like to be added in certain iterative orders, but the more important benefit being as you get to each new level and punch out a new TS Object version, if something goes wrong, you know what changed since the last stabile version and you normally have less to go back and check (tho there could be an embedded problem early on you didn't realize that didn't show until the shape, alpha channels, and texturing got more intense or contradictory).If it crashes in Activity/Consist Editor, you know you've got a problem...but it could make it thru a full MSTS boot-up and still have a problem you don't know about. Best way to check that is in graphic-intense situations, like starting it in a very shape intensive/low FPS area like Washington Union Station, or on the most narrow view key 4 angle of roll-by (as in the camera set between the track next to the track your unit is on...you may have to hit the 4 key multiple times to get that view, and you may have to put your caboose near the head of the consist), day and night. You never quite know which variable may make MSTS crash or lock-up, but it's better for you to find it than someone after you've uploaded it to the library.Again, good luck!Aloha, Jeff Link
Island Electric - West

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It's been my experience that a number of things can cause this although I've run into this problem most often after joining parts to simplify the overall hierachy. The situation can arise if a part was already a child but joined to a higher part that wasn't it's immediate parent. The original parent is still contained in the code. To avoid it make sure the parent information for the sub part is set to 'None' or to the part you propose to join to.Stew

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If the little pic didnt show in AE it is a texturing problem. Did you get any error messages when exporting from TSM?mervyn@madasafish.com

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From my personal experience with TSM, yes, it could be a texturing problem, but it also could be any number of other often inter-related structural/alpha/texturing issues. The same issues that would cause MSTS to crash or lock up often, but not always, have the same impact on AE/Consist Editor.Aloha, Jeff Link
Island Electric - West

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Guys
Thanks I'm printing this thread out.
There was an error message when I attempted to reconvert saying that it couldn't find tsm.s (?) but I'll give these suggestions a shot
as far as the railings go their pretty much just three half inch square boxes joined together to form the end posts and I did find my major poly hogs to be the rounded roof edges that are a signature feature to this caboose and the marker lamps
Guys thanksGary S

"Some say this country's just out for a fight. After 9/11 man I'd have to say thats right"
"Have You Forgotten"
Darryl Worley

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Looking for tsm.s is the shape file...just curious, have you specified a file name and path in project properties before you make the TS object? Would guess so or you'd get an error message, but has it changed in your iterations maybe? Also, sometimes if there's a serious problem TSM won't kick one out in binary. Otherwise, there's something really amiss that it's not kicking out a shape file for you. Pretty soon you'll pin the offending party(ies) down!Aloha, Jeff Link
Island Electric - West

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If you keep hitting the wall, why not start a new project to track where things went wrong? Save the main body or whatever is the primary parent to all other parts (no parent) in the part library, then the bogies, and the wheels, next load the body, then bogies, then wheels into the new project, do an F2 to double check parent properties/etc, package it, then make it a TS object. Curious, you do have at least two animation frames in properties so the bogies and wheels will work, don't you? If the new primitive caboose body works, great, you know at least part of the project is validated. Then through additions of logical groups of parts that are either must-have or next level progressions, start to add objects from the original caboose and check stability in MSTS. That will help point you toward what's causing the problem. It's fairly fast and easy to save parts from the old project and add to the new, plus it may show you in the process what could be causing a problem.One more question...you did do all the file name tweaks (if needed, TSM should do them correctly for you) on your wag, shape, and shape definition files to ensure the correct file names that the wag file is looking for, yes?Aloha, Jeff Link
Island Electric - West

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Jeff
Thats what I may do if the tips you guys have given me don't pan out,it wouldn't be the first time I've had to go back and start again cuz TSM got finicky on meGary S

"Some say this country's just out for a fight. After 9/11 man I'd have to say thats right"
"Have You Forgotten"
Darryl Worley

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LAST EDITED ON Apr-21-03 AT 08:13 PM (EDT)

Jeff
I did do all the prelim stuff prior to conversion,this is actually only the first car I've built myself from the frame up(save for some parts like the bogies avalible in the FL)but I've converted existing dst files with minimum probs as well as cranked out scenery items + I'll try going at it with a fresh boot up on the compy as well.
again thanks
BTW If you want to check out what I'm going for check this linkhttp://www.train-sim.com/dcforum/DCForumID6/9240.htmlthe pics are towards the bottomGary S

"Some say this country's just out for a fight. After 9/11 man I'd have to say thats right"
"Have You Forgotten"
Darryl Worley

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tsm.s is the uncompressed shape file of the exported model and resides in the Abacus/TS Modeler folder, along with the .sd file. If it is there you can open it and do an edit/find using ace as the keyword to find. If the ace converted properly you should see it referred to in the file. One more thing,what version of TSM are you using? mervyn@madasafish.com

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Baldwin
I'm using 1.1(the most recent IIRC)
Something did occur to me that I did join some parts after texturing and had to go in and do a new bmp for the sides after my first convert attempt.Gary S

"Some say this country's just out for a fight. After 9/11 man I'd have to say thats right"
"Have You Forgotten"
Darryl Worley

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One way you can tell if a model will give you a UID error, is to watch how it behaves when exporting. If, when you export, the model, or parts of the model turn a funky puke neon green, then don't bother testing it. You'll get a UID error every time.Normally, the solution to this is just to re export the thing. It should clear itself up.However, you will sometimes find that you can't re export. In fact, you'll lose the work entirely. I don't know if this is a Gmax or just a building problem, but I've had that happen dozens of times.

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Guys
I think I've gotten the prob solved,I had a large number uncentered axiss(or is it axi) as well as way too many parts so I did some axis centering and part welding and according to the conversion report everything converted.
I'm still getting a texture error linked to a bmp file that I experimented with but couldn't get to ace on me so I must have one part somewhere still looking for that texture, so I'll have to backtrack and find the errant texture.
Again thanks guys I'll keep you updatedGary S

"Some say this country's just out for a fight. After 9/11 man I'd have to say thats right"
"Have You Forgotten"
Darryl Worley

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Great! Often a quick way to find out what that ace went to is to just remove it or put an "x" on the file name (so it's not read by your model) to see what turns white (or your base color), but if it's an embedded part, you may have to dig. If you did a single poly texturing with it and don't recall what it was, you've got some more intensive searching to do. Sounds like you're on the right track!Aloha, Jeff Link
Island Electric - West

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