Unleaded Fuel

Were there any experiments with "diesels" using unleaded fuel?
just wondering.
-Hovertrain

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RE: Unleaded Fuel, kevarc, Feb-09-03, 11:36 AM, (1) RE: Unleaded Fuel, gryphonone, Feb-09-03, 02:04 PM, (2) RE: Unleaded Fuel, heffed, Feb-09-03, 03:23 PM, (3) RE: Unleaded Fuel, black5, Feb-09-03, 05:02 PM, (4) RE: Unleaded Fuel, patm41, Feb-09-03, 05:25 PM, (5) RE: Unleaded Fuel, Hovertrain, Feb-09-03, 05:55 PM, (6) RE: Unleaded Fuel, Lone_Gunman_SG, Feb-09-03, 06:29 PM, (7) RE: Unleaded Fuel, Hovertrain, Feb-09-03, 07:11 PM, (8) RE: Unleaded Fuel, b101uk, Feb-09-03, 10:00 PM, (9) RE: Unleaded Fuel, Buddy, Feb-11-03, 04:24 PM, (19) RE: Unleaded Fuel, b101uk, Feb-11-03, 07:50 PM, (22) RE: Unleaded Fuel, homer13j, Feb-11-03, 05:18 PM, (20) RE: Unleaded Fuel, b101uk, Feb-11-03, 07:42 PM, (21) RE: Unleaded Fuel, homer13j, Feb-11-03, 10:50 PM, (23) RE: Unleaded Fuel, black5, Feb-10-03, 05:48 PM, (14) RE: Unleaded Fuel, b101uk, Feb-10-03, 07:50 PM, (17) RE: Unleaded Fuel, xlspecial261, Feb-10-03, 09:18 AM, (13) RE: Unleaded Fuel, b101uk, Feb-10-03, 07:10 PM, (16) RE: Unleaded Fuel, nadnerb1982, Feb-10-03, 00:50 AM, (10) RE: Unleaded Fuel, robertseale, Feb-10-03, 08:25 AM, (11) RE: Unleaded Fuel, kevarc, Feb-10-03, 09:13 AM, (12) RE: Unleaded Fuel, GrizzlyBear, Feb-10-03, 06:28 PM, (15) RE: Unleaded Fuel, Hovertrain, Feb-11-03, 04:00 PM, (18) RE: Unleaded Fuel, kwk100, Feb-11-03, 11:46 PM, (24) RE: Unleaded Fuel, Knarf, Feb-19-03, 10:33 PM, (25)

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LAST EDITED ON Feb-09-03 AT 11:38 AM (EDT)

?Diesel was never leaded. That was only for gasoline engines to help with internal wear. the "knocks"And why do you put posts like this in this forum? It would be better suited to the General forum as it has nothing to do with modeling.Kevin Arceneaux
It is time for Amtrak to become a fallen flag!

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Hi Kev, I dont think the concept of forum topic material will ever catch on with some people, another one for the playpen. John

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Why would they want to switch from diesel fuel?Diesel fuel is cheaper, and diesel engines have less moving parts and more torque than gasoline engines.What it boils down to is diesel is the best option from a maintainance, power, and economic standpoint.This is the same reason long haul trucking and ocean going ships use diesel engines for their motive power.-Jeff-Jeff

Union Pacific is my drug.

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Less moving parts???? could you specify as I can't think of any off the top of my head.
Georges from London.

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Less parts,, mmmmmm well as a service tech for John Deere all i can say is its a close call.. Modern gas engines use fuel injection so no carburator,(moving parts), Diesel engines have injectors and a injection pump which has lots of parts in it...Now the newest diesels
have computer controled injection pumps .... id say if both engines were taken apart and every piece counted there would be more parts .
Patm41

Maglev Route Designer
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Spark plugs. Unleaded engines have 'em. Diesel fuel explodes under compression, without the spark.
-Hovertrain

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your kiddin me. Is that why theyre so loud?My new e-mail is Arcanine241@yahoo.com
premium add-ons

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>your kiddin me.
I kid you not.
-Hovertrain

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hi
the lead in gasoline Fuel was to stop the valve seats from being burnt out(4stroke only), so you did not have to take the head off so often to regrind/cut the valves back in to the seats to stop leeks and compreshon loss, modern metals used in valvs and valve seats resist this much beter compaird to older metals, but if you use modern metals with lead then thay last even longer still!, also the lead in fuel also stabalises the mix so it has a longer shelf life and more even burn compaird to unleaded fuel (both 2 and 4stroke + rotory) .diesel fuel dose have Sulphur and potash in witch people are moning about like thay did about lead, but its for difrent resens, the Sulphur cleens carbon deposits(injectors), the potash helps loob the moveing parts and counter acts the Sulphur efect on the pump and injector metals, hence y low-Sulphur diesel is avalable. diesels use to run on coal dust and other things, b 4 Dr Rudolph diesel came up with the diesel fuel formula(then a mass made cheep wast biproduct with no use!).as far as diesels being simpler, it is true, but not for the resinens you would think, a diesels is simpler becouse is neads NO exturnal power to run, unlike a gasoline engine witch neads pawer for the spark plugs.as far as there being more moveing parts in diesels, is incorect, if you compaire simalar engines, eg LP mech gasoline injection v HP mech diesel injection or Venturi induction gasoline v Venturi induction diesel, as gasoline engines have the AC or DC genorator and spark distribution system, witch is not neaded on a diesel, (extra moveing and non moveing parts).in about 10 to 20 years, we may find that F1 and indy cars will probably be useing diesel engines, due to the fact theat diesels can be upto 75% Efficient ware as gasoline(Reciprocating) is not more than 45 to 50% Efficient. we have seen in the last fue years this starting, with BMW M3 2.5L TDI GT3/GT2 wining races, VW Golf 1.9L/2.0L TDI wining stages and taking 2nd,3rd & 4th on rally events in the EU. in 1978 Mercedes Benz took a 3.0L TDI (C111/3)and ran it for 24h, over a 12h period it ran at an avrage speed of 195mph(203mph peek) including fuel stops and driver changes. in my view gasoline is only good for washing engine parts in & fueling my MX bike(avgas) , so i wont be geting a farari untill thay have a diesel option .b101uk

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b101uk;
A slight correction about early Diesels running on coal dust. That what Dr Diesel was trying to accomplish was to build an engine that would run on coal dust, but he was never able to accomplish that. In fact he was almost killed when the head blew off an expermental coal attempt engine. He was able to make an engine run almost any other fuel but coal. There are still at least 4 different grades of Diesel fuel. # 1 is clear, down to the lowest grade that is almost like ship bunker oil. Most trucks and autos use #2. Greyhound buses used #3.By now the EPA probably has them on #2 also.
Byron De Winton

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hii stand corected , over hear(uk) #1 = 28sec(burning oil) #2 = 35sec(red & road fuel)
#3 and 4# are ?secb101uk

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LAST EDITED ON Feb-11-03 AT 05:19 PM (EDT)

>fueling my MX bike(avgas)You use avgas in a dirt bike? Never heard of that. 2 or 4 stroke?I put nothing but Sunoco 110 mixed with 7.5 oz. Xamax per gallon in my shifter kart motor - a heavily modified 2-stroke CR125. Puts out roughly 40hp on the dyno.Sorry to go off topic, but this interests me greatly.Homer #13j
future Dunlop Road Race Series Champion (I'm only 36)

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hiits a 2 stroke 1987 RM 250 (~55hp), witch i have flat tuned to spred the power over the rpm more, so its much more like a 4 stroke power.
i use avgas 115/145 (leen/rich).i use avgas becouse road fuel in the UK no longer has lead in, as well as it costs £3.29 a gal(4.56L), i can get avgas for £2.50 a gal(4.56L), also avgas is much cleener(less water and dirt in)and it qualty is regulated much beter and has a longer shelf life & higher octane rating. also in motors you get lower(slight) more even head temps and less plug fouling, also ware seems to be less, eg the rm is still on the same piston(1 pice forged) and liner i put in in 1990!i also use avgas in my chansaw & disk cuter & lawn mower .i no 2 strokes dont nead lead at all but i have alwase found things to work beter with it and the higher octane of avgas makes for a smoother engine with a little more power witch lasts longer espeshaly if it is a high compreshon motor.if you race you may find you canot use an avgas of geater than 100LL spec.b101uk

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>i use avgas becouse road fuel in the UK no longer has lead
>in, as well as it costs £3.29 a gal(4.56L)Ouch! We're bitching up a storm over here 'cause it's up around $1.60/gal., but it'll go back down once Saddam is gone.>also avgas is much cleener(less
>water and dirt in)and it qualty is regulated much beter and
>has a longer shelf life & higher octane rating. also in
>motors you get lower(slight) more even head temps and less
>plug fouling, also ware seems to be less Same reasons I use Sunoco 110.eg the rm is still
>on the same piston(1 pice forged) and liner i put in in
>1990! Wow. I have to put in a new forged Wiseco every 10 hours. Of course dirt bike engines modified for kart racing endure unbelievable stresses. The course at Road America is 4 miles around and my CR runs at 12,500 RPM for about three of the four (averaging about 95 mph - in a go-kart!). And Daytona is even harder on an engine than that.Thanks for the info.Homer #13j

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Spark plugs..moving parts???
Georges from London.

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hi
"Spark plugs..moving parts????"well 99.999% of plugs dont move, but there were plugs that had moveing parts, i kid you not.how thay work:
each plug was made to fit standard size plug holes but had a CDI unit as part of the plug, each plug had only 1 12v fead wire and NO HT lead, as each plug had a cdi unit as part of it there was no nead for, HT leads, Distributor caps and Distributor,HT coil.now the trick moveing part bit:
as the plugs fited a standard plug hole the ends were the same, but by the center electrode there was small transfer hole leading to a convex washer siting in a taperd hole with a screw ajuster on the back and a contact behind the convex washer, the ajuster screw was for ajusting the shape of the convex whasher to acount for the compreshon ratio(timeing of spark). so as each cylinder reach almost max compreshon ratio the convex washer would pop and make contact and discharge the power to the electrode to creat the spark.b101uk

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Older EMD's actually use what's called a unit injector. The fuel is pressurized in the injector itself, so they do not have injector pumps.Todd

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hi
a "unit injector" is just a single inline pump, driven normaly from a cam lobe witch also sometimes has the injector as part of it, as aposed to a shaft driven via(belt, chane, gear) single body inline or rotory distribution pump with remote injectors.i could be incorect as i am not fermiler with Older EMD's or even new ones b101uk

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See: http://www.train-sim.com/dcforum/DCForumID1/4051.html . . .

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RHSseems to me like all ur post are stupid. you say dumb things like lets run a desle on gas and #####. hell even i post better than that.

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Not true, even thought he gets them in the wrong forum all the time, they are legitimate questions. You on the otherhand are just a troll.Kevin Arceneaux
It is time for Amtrak to become a fallen flag!

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There would be no reason to do this. Diesel engines are designed to burn diesel fuel oil, not gasoline. Someone mentioned more power and less maintenance. This is very true. Part of the reason they have more power is the chemistry of the fuel. Diesel fuel is composed of larger hydrocarbon molecules than is gasoline. This means that it has a higher heat content (the bigger a hydrocarbon molecule, the more energy it contains). More heat content means more power. Also, diesel is much more safe to handle than gasoline because it has a much lower volitility and higher flash point than gasoline, making it less flammable than gasoline. Both of these reasons, more heat and safer handling, are also some of the same reasons that jet aircraft burn a kerosene based fuel instead of gasoline. Quite simply, less maintanence, more power, better durability, and cheaper and safer fuel are the reasons diesel engines are the choice for heavy industrial applications like locomotives, trucks, and construction equipment.

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I think my post was mis-interpereted. I meant to ask if a loco company, instead of putting a diesel engine into their diesel loco, put in an unleaded engine just as an experiment. I put quotes around diesel because it technically wouldn't be a diesel.
-Hovertrain

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Yup there were a few companies that tried gasoline electrics as opposed to diesel electrics, I don't know whcih companies though. But none the less, this post is very interesting!This is kwk100 and I'm 10-10 on the side.KWK100's GE Locomotive RebuildingUpdates (Jan 9 2003)GE 44 Tonner V2.00 and the 5 Ton Brownhoist nearing completion. Texture fixing in the works.
GE logo and name property of General Electric, I have no relation to GE.

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Didn't the Santa Fe experiment with using a LP or Natural Gas engine on some of their MK switchers? IIRC, I think they did. If so, does the BNSF still use them?
Frank S.

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