Yet Another Update on the C420

Below are two shots of what I have so far, I have fixed the rearend and started adding details:This is kwk100 and I'm 10-10 on the side.KWK100's GE Locomotive RebuildingUpdates (Jan 9 2003)GE 44 Tonner V2.00 and the 5 Ton Brownhoist nearing completion. Texture fixing in the works.
GE logo and name property of General Electric, I have no relation to GE.

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RE: Yet Another Update on the C420, IcyFire, Jan-20-03, 02:32 AM, (1) RE: Yet Another Update on the C420, poppafred, Mar-15-03, 11:22 PM, (2) RE: Yet Another Update on the C420, kwk100, Mar-16-03, 00:23 AM, (5) RE: Yet Another Update on the C420, Coonskin, Mar-16-03, 00:04 AM, (3) RE: Yet Another Update on the C420, kwk100, Mar-16-03, 00:13 AM, (4) RE: Yet Another Update on the C420, andrewpickell, Mar-16-03, 04:25 PM, (6) RE: Yet Another Update on the C420, kwk100, Mar-17-03, 02:29 AM, (10) RE: Yet Another Update on the C420, 2cycle, Mar-16-03, 05:15 PM, (7) RE: Yet Another Update on the C420, kwk100, Mar-17-03, 02:27 AM, (9) RE: Yet Another Update on the C420, Magick_maker, Mar-22-03, 09:52 PM, (21) RE: Yet Another Update on the C420, lfriddle, Mar-17-03, 00:41 AM, (8) RE: Yet Another Update on the C420, Coonskin, Mar-19-03, 09:54 AM, (11) RE: Yet Another Update on the C420, lfriddle, Mar-19-03, 01:58 PM, (12) RE: Yet Another Update on the C420, Coonskin, Mar-19-03, 02:11 PM, (13) RE: Yet Another Update on the C420, csxt602, Mar-19-03, 02:33 PM, (14) RE: Yet Another Update on the C420, jay611, Mar-20-03, 05:02 PM, (15) RE: Yet Another Update on the C420, kwk100, Mar-20-03, 10:24 PM, (16) RE: Yet Another Update on the C420, Coonskin, Mar-20-03, 11:15 PM, (17) RE: Yet Another Update on the C420, kwk100, Mar-21-03, 00:57 AM, (18) RE: Yet Another Update on the C420, Coonskin, Mar-21-03, 01:59 AM, (19) RE: Yet Another Update on the C420, Magick_maker, Mar-22-03, 10:00 PM, (22) RE: Yet Another Update on the C420, Coonskin, Mar-22-03, 10:36 PM, (23) RE: Yet Another Update on the C420, Magick_maker, Mar-23-03, 02:38 PM, (25) RE: Yet Another Update on the C420, jay611, Mar-22-03, 09:47 PM, (20) RE: Yet Another Update on the C420, SCL, Mar-23-03, 05:49 AM, (24) RE: Yet Another Update on the C420, kwk100, Mar-24-03, 00:07 AM, (26) RE: Yet Another Update on the C420, SCL, Mar-24-03, 01:09 PM, (27) RE: Yet Another Update on the C420, enocell, Mar-25-03, 12:30 PM, (28) RE: Yet Another Update on the C420, jay611, Mar-25-03, 03:36 PM, (29) RE: Yet Another Update on the C420, Coonskin, Mar-25-03, 10:14 PM, (30)

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Looks pretty accurate, I'd love to paint an alco in the fictional full bucket livery
Sincerely,
Shawn Kenselaar
ShawnSSK@Yahoo.com

Train-sim.com Lifer and Screen Shot Forum Mod
Repainter for YLW & TKW

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Looking very nice. Any particular road in mind for the finished project yet?

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Well not really, I am making my own railway, the NIR or Northern Industrial Railway, all I have so far is a paint scheme...
KWK100

Updates (Feb 21 2003)GE 44 Tonner (V2.0): 99.9% Done (UID Errors)
5 Ton Brownhoist: 95% Done (Trans. Issues)GE logo and name property of General Electric, I have no relation to GE.

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Coming along very well!What 3D program are you using?Andre

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I am using 3ds Max 4 - I am glad you guys like it!
KWK100

Updates (Feb 21 2003)GE 44 Tonner (V2.0): 99.9% Done (UID Errors)
5 Ton Brownhoist: 95% Done (Trans. Issues)GE logo and name property of General Electric, I have no relation to GE.

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Are you working off drawings? If you aren't I have a set I can send to you. Let me knowandrewpickell@hotmail.com- Andrew

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Hi, that would be great if you could send the drawings to me! The ones I have are a little out, and are difficult to read (the lines are really thick). But don't worry I have been accounting for this. My email is thetrucknut@shaw.ca
KWK100

Updates (Feb 21 2003)GE 44 Tonner (V2.0): 99.9% Done (UID Errors)
5 Ton Brownhoist: 95% Done (Trans. Issues)GE logo and name property of General Electric, I have no relation to GE.

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what happened to the updated 44 ton you were working on ?seems like you would finish that before you would start another project
2 Cycle
3e6bfa4c1ccb383f.jpg

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Hi,Well the updated 44 Tonner (v2) is creeping ever closer to the recycle bin. I have been fighting with that UID error for the last month. I have tried everything that I can think of. I am thinking it is a problem with the texture set up and names or the object names.Yes repaints will be allowed, as will requests for modifications to make the model more prototypical. Good and Bad news:Good: I did get the C420 into the game tonight
Bad: The scale is wonky, the locomotive is huge, but this doesn't make sense, all the units are properly set up, Max is set to Meters...If you want to help with the 44 tonner please email me at thetrucknut@shaw.ca I have made the model in 3ds Max 4 using .tga textures with transparency.
KWK100

Updates (Feb 21 2003)GE 44 Tonner (V2.0): 99.9% Done (UID Errors)
5 Ton Brownhoist: 95% Done (Trans. Issues)GE logo and name property of General Electric, I have no relation to GE.

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Well, that answered my question. Odd that it's different from the pics and diagrams I found for the c425, classified the af-25 by the prr.Couple differences I notice, are the long hood, (the prr one is flat), the GE style radiator on the rear of the prr one, and minor differences in the details.Guess I'll toss the af I as doing .

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I can hardly wait. My FRISO-Fort Smith Sub is now the Arkansas & Missouri RR. They use C420's almost exclusively. You are going to allow repaints, aren't you?Larry

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"I can hardly wait. My FRISO-Fort Smith Sub is now the Arkansas & Missouri RR."WHAT??? (GASP!!!) You're going back the A&M?Well, pard, you'd better get to pullin' out sidings, platform markers, industries, etc, etc, etc! Andre

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LAST EDITED ON Mar-19-03 AT 01:59 PM (EDT)

I was talking about real world, today, U KNOW...REALITY.
No I'm not changeing the route. Doesn't mean I won't run an A&M train on it though.

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Gotcha.I figured that's what you meant... but couldn't pass the opportunity.BTW, I too, will likely run some A&M Alco's for funzies! Andre

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Lookin' good! Can't wait to see it in some L&N gray and LV maroon. Chris Denbow - Baltimore, MD
TKW Paintshop Technician

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WOW!!!!!! I would love to see that in SCL or A&M!-->Jason Underwood<--
12 year old rail buff

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LAST EDITED ON Mar-20-03 AT 10:40 PM (EDT)

These following prototype images are the SCL schemes that the model will be released in:Both of the above photos are from George Elwood's site: www.rr-fallenflags.orgHere is what I have so far, I just started with the handrails last night, and the steps were just finished:Edit:Also if you spot an error, please tell me! Currently at 4234 polygons, with no trucks, this might be a problem...
KWK100

Updates (Feb 21 2003)GE 44 Tonner (V2.0): 99.9% Done (UID Errors)
5 Ton Brownhoist: 95% Done (Trans. Issues)GE logo and name property of General Electric, I have no relation to GE.

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Looks like you're doing a superb job.An observation: Appears you're modeling a Phase 1 C420. I recall the Phase 1 was in production from their beginning in '63(?) to sometime in '64. Phase 2's after that.Don't know if modeling a Phase 1 was something you were after or what, simply conveying some info.Andre Ming

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Hmm interesting. To tell you the truth I had no idea that there was a phase 1 or a phase 2. Maybe you could point out some differences between the phases for me? Now that I know that there is a phase 1 and 2, I will have to modify this locomotive in the future (after the release of the phase 1 locomotive) to represent a phase 2 locomotive.
KWK100

Updates (Feb 21 2003)GE 44 Tonner (V2.0): 99.9% Done (UID Errors)
5 Ton Brownhoist: 95% Done (Trans. Issues)GE logo and name property of General Electric, I have no relation to GE.

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LAST EDITED ON Mar-21-03 AT 02:03 AM (EDT)

As I recall (and I'm operating off memory, here), the major difference were the handrail stanchions. The Phase 1 had the stanchions mounted on TOP of the walkways, as your model depicts. Access to the nuts/bolts that held them on was accomplished by small oval holes on the side sill under certain stanchions. (Said oval hoels best modeled with textures and not 3D.)Phase 2 C420's had the stanchions bolted to the SIDE of the walkways on the sidesill. I'll try to dig up some of my A&M photos to see if I can find some that illustrate the differences. If so, I'll scan/post to illustrate. Could be as late as Saturday before I accomplish it.That said... reckon' we could be splitting hairs here for V scale? If you decide to go with what you've got, they'll look just fine.Edit: Silly me. Look up above at the SCL pics... THAT'S a Phase 1 C420. See how the stanchions sit on TOP of the walkways and see the small ovals under the stanchions?I'll see if I can find a pic of a Phase 2.Andre Ming

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LAST EDITED ON Mar-22-03 AT 10:03 PM (EDT)

Though I posted earlier in this thread, Let me add to what you've said.As you get up in the numbers from 420-426 (or something along that lines I believe) class wise, things start changing. At first, they're pretty much identical, save for trucks and minor differences in stancions and what not, later on, design changes started occuring that reflected in later units.The most notable being the loss of the "cut" in the end of the long hood that most all Alcos had. This cut, is non existant in the 425 due to a GE style radiator and a dynamic blister half way back. Oddly enough, many of the 425's had a flat long hood, though, I'm unsure why at present.PRR also played around with these engines, modifying them further by adding a side by side headlight above the cab windows. Oddly enough, it didn't fit well on the old over under cab light mounting area, so they cut them back SLIGHTLY. This gives the cab windows a kind of tilted back profile, making for a strange look. In this model, also, the stancions are the through type with the handrail going through the stancion. I cannot tell, but they look round.Finally, truck wise, depending on the road the trucks could be nearly anything. Sometimes, older trucks were used from old alco locos that had been traded in, and I've found one where an older F unit's trucks are under it. I'm not modeling detailed trucks, rather using a transparency, so modelers can simulate any truck they wish by just modifying the .ace file.
EDIT:Oh, btw, I'm 80 percent done with the model. I just need to do the cab interior, finish up minor details (like the dynamic blister and stancions) and then texture the engine and test it. Gimme two weeks to have it ready to send up.

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"As you get up in the numbers from 420-426 (or something along that lines I believe) class wise, things start changing." Yup. Because they're different engines. Apples and oranges, that sort of thing.When talking "Phases", you stay within the model in question. That is, if dealing with C420 an their Phases, then one would stay within the C420 series.The C424, C425, et al, are different models completely, with their own "Phases" within. All are part of the "Century" series, but each is unique. Like the EMD "F" unit series. From F2 to F9, they were all F units, but an F3 Phase 2a was a very different animal than, say, an F7 Phase 2.Andre "Coonskin" Ming

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true. The problem being that on the outside, they basically look the same. I hadn't thought about that when I originally posted.Currently, I desperately need a side shot of /some/ 425, doens't matter road name.

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LAST EDITED ON Mar-22-03 AT 09:49 PM (EDT)

looks great to me, keep us updated.heres some A&M. some shots may be edited.-->Jason Underwood<--
12 year old rail buff

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Wow! Can't believe it. It last, a C420!! After a couple of years of wishing it looks like it may come true. And, even better, it's being tailored for the SCL!!! I am one happy chappy! You did say you'll allow repaints didn't you, because it's something I'd like to get my teeth into if you do. Will the textures be 1024x1024?If I can help in any way don't hesitate to ask. It's looking superb up to now!!Cheers
Ken
SCL/CSX A-Line Project

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I thought that 1024x1024 textures caused errors with some video cards? Maybe I will do them in 1024x1024 and scale them downn by 50% to 512x512.
KWK100

Updates (Feb 21 2003)GE 44 Tonner (V2.0): 99.9% Done (UID Errors)
5 Ton Brownhoist: 95% Done (Trans. Issues)GE logo and name property of General Electric, I have no relation to GE.

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Yes, I know what you're saying, but not sure if that's still as much of a problem nowadays - I think there's a lot of folk who can run 1024 with no probs. Maybe you ought to take a poll?!! (as if we don't have enough of them!! LOL Whatever you decide I'll just be glad there is a C420 for us all! Thanks for all your efforts so far.Cheers
Ken
SCL/CSX A-Line

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What happened to the rear steps of #44?

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good question.-->Jason Underwood<--
12 year old rail buff

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Well, I haven't been to the A&M area in Springdale, AR for a while, but it appears that unit is spotted on one of the tracks they use to accomplish light repairs. Likely they either had an "unrailment" (derail) with the 44 and it damaged the pilot, or they hit something, damaging it. Either way, it should be OOS until fixed. BTW, the 42 isn't a C420. I recall it being an RS32. It is/was one sweet sounding little Alco. Andre "Coonskin" Ming

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