A discussion on Gmax

ok I finally installed Gmax and have been comparing the results from the built in converter verses the conv3ds.exe converter Using the berk tender, which has some smooth surfaces on it, as my test subject.I find that the two versions of the file look the same in the game but the converted Gmax file is 427k compressed and the 3dmax file run through conv3ds is 85k compressed. However, if you uncompress and then recompress the gmax file it goes down to 85k as well.so, what am I missing? Is there a function within Gmax that can improve the smoothness of surfaces (other than smoothing groups) and make the model better, or is it just the convienience of the missing steps?Please post your findings with Gmax, Whats good, whats bad, I would like to know other gmax/max users thoughts on this.

john fowlis

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RE: A discussion on Gmax, Magick_maker, Nov-25-02, 01:12 AM, (1) RE: A discussion on Gmax, JoeDiamond, Nov-25-02, 01:41 AM, (2) RE: A discussion on Gmax, johnf, Nov-25-02, 09:24 AM, (3) RE: A discussion on Gmax, Groquik, Nov-25-02, 10:25 AM, (4) RE: A discussion on Gmax, Hack, Nov-25-02, 10:33 AM, (5) RE: A discussion on Gmax, Magick_maker, Nov-25-02, 04:20 PM, (7) RE: A discussion on Gmax, Groquik, Nov-28-02, 07:00 PM, (8) RE: A discussion on Gmax, JoeDiamond, Nov-25-02, 11:34 AM, (6) RE: A discussion on Gmax, kwk100, Nov-28-02, 11:22 PM, (9)

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Dunno J man. On my end, I've been building steadilly and have noticed that my models tend to be TINY s files. Fully converted, one of my locos was only 10kb. Dunno what I did right though. Which Gmax are you using? Straight Gmax, or the trainsim game pack.the reason I ask, is it might be something there that you're missing, or yes, it could be a changed step.

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I find the biggest advantage of gmax is that is overcomes the limitations conv3ds places on texture mapping. With conv3ds you loose the smoothing across texture seams, with gmax you do not. A good example would be the domes of a steam locomotive. With gmax I can map the front, top and sides seperatley, weld everything together and have a nice smooth surface on the model. Try that with conv3ds and you will loose the smoothing on the domes where the front, top and sides meet.Additionally, it's impossible to get correct alpha sorting with conv3ds, resulting in disappearing scenery through areas of 8-bit alpha such as cab windows. The gmax exporter handles the alpha sorting correctly.And finally there are the levels-of-distance. If you have an animated object such as a steam locomotive, conv3ds cannot process the mutiple LOD's. Again, the gmax exporter has no problems with this.My personal technique is to do the modeling and texture mapping in 3ds max. I then export the mesh as .3ds for importing into gmax. I do the animation and LODs and conversion to .s format in gmax.I've read many complaints about the stability of gmax. I have yet to experience any problems on my system, XP with 512M of RAM.Overall I find that using the gmax exporter gives me greater overall freedom to build and map the model the way I want, free from the limitations of conv3ds. My latest project uses mapping techniques that would be incompatible with conv3ds allowing me to include a level of detail that would not be otherwise possible.Conn McCarthy
Train Artisan

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Hey Thanks for your input Conn. Just what I want to know, but I have a question why not map in Gmax? or are the max mapping tools better in your opinion? All day yesterday I flipped back and forth between max and gmax and had no stability problems.

john fowlis

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Hi JohnThe main problem with gmax is that it's a closed software such as TSM
You can save your work only in *.gmax files.So it's better to do much of the work with 3ds max and just the smoothing with gmax.Moreover, the material manager provided by the gmax MSTS plugin is not very easy to use.

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>Moreover, the material manager provided by the gmax MSTS
>plugin is not very easy to use. Seems easy to me.FWIW, the only real limitation to Gmax is the lack of complex object primitives. No big deal - I made a bunch in Max for quick import to Gmax when needed. If the job calls for it, I'll do some of the hard modeling in Max (nurbs, etc.), export and import to Gmax, and finish off from there. Hardly complicated IMHO.Cheers!
Marc - 3DTrains
http://www.3dtrains.comPro Series Super Packs

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I agree with you Hack. Once I got used to Gmax, i've found it much easier to use than I first thought. For the longest time, I heard people going on about how difficult it was to make a locomotive; and I guess I expected the difficulty to be outrageous. Part of the reason I waited so long to get gmax was the fear of how hard it would be.Now, well, I'm shocked at how easy it can be. Gmax is actually pretty user friendly, and while the learning curve is still a bit steep, it's not what it was.Object wise, I've had no problems adjusting the primitives to meet what I need. While, sure, there's not much you can do on an FL9 that isn't a box or a curve, there are some nasty curves on the nose that make building annoyingly hard since while selecting one vertex, I inevitably select two of the wrong ones and have to fix what I messed up . Still,I'm really impressed with gmax.

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I meant that it is less user-friendly than the 3DS Max material manager. Especially with multi material.But in my way of working, it's not a problem since I make most of the work with Max and use gMax only for the smoothing, sub-objects sorting and the LOD managerAnd these functions are far more powerful than conv3ds

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You could do the mapping in gmax without any problems. I prefer to work in 3ds max out of personal preference. There are some max plug-ins I use that are not available for gmax.Having the textured mesh in max also gives me the option to create rendered 3D images of the model should the need ever arise.Conn

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With gmax I can map the front, top and
>sides seperatley, weld everything together and have a nice
>smooth surface on the model. Try that with conv3ds and you
>will loose the smoothing on the domes where the front, top
>and sides meet. maybe you could show me how to do some mapping like that? I it would come in really handy on V2.0 of the GE 44 Tonner!kwk100,A Diesel drinking, piston clankin', air pollutin', smoke belchin' ten wheel buggy, from Seattle WA...

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