Alco RSD12, anyone working on this unit?

Wondering if anyone is working on an Alco RSD12? If you don't know what the unit is, its the 6 axle counterpart to the RS11, looks roughly the same, just 5 ft longer (in the long hood) & has 3 axle trucks. Not a real popular unit (it was rostered by the NKP & PRR along with a few others). Just pondering what engine to begin working on.TCTallant

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RE: Alco RSD12, anyone working on this unit?, RSD 12, Oct-24-02, 08:15 PM, (1) RE: Alco RSD12, anyone working on this unit?, BNSF_Dash9, Oct-25-02, 09:08 AM, (2) RE: Alco RSD12, anyone working on this unit?, ge44tonner, Oct-25-02, 05:32 PM, (3) RE: Alco RSD12, anyone working on this unit?, akajim, Oct-25-02, 08:30 PM, (4) RE: Alco RSD12, anyone working on this unit?, tctallant, Oct-27-02, 06:30 PM, (5) RE: Alco RSD12, anyone working on this unit?, whockin, Oct-28-02, 12:47 PM, (6) RE: Alco RSD12, anyone working on this unit?, TVRRMAN, Oct-30-02, 05:28 PM, (7) RE: Alco RSD12, anyone working on this unit?, enocell, Oct-31-02, 11:22 AM, (10) RE: Alco RSD12, anyone working on this unit?, ICRRfan, Oct-31-02, 12:29 PM, (11) RE: Alco RSD12, anyone working on this unit?, enocell, Oct-31-02, 01:54 PM, (14) RE: Alco RSD12, anyone working on this unit?, tctallant, Oct-31-02, 03:11 PM, (15) RE: Alco RSD12, anyone working on this unit?, tctallant, Oct-30-02, 07:05 PM, (8) RE: Alco RSD12, anyone working on this unit?, ge44tonner, Oct-30-02, 09:18 PM, (9) RE: Alco RSD12, anyone working on this unit?, ICRRfan, Oct-31-02, 12:36 PM, (12) RE: Alco RSD12, anyone working on this unit?, tctallant, Oct-31-02, 01:52 PM, (13) RE: Alco RSD12, anyone working on this unit?, ge44tonner, Oct-31-02, 10:12 PM, (16) RE: Alco RSD12, anyone working on this unit?, Coonskin, Nov-01-02, 00:31 AM, (17) RE: Alco RSD12, anyone working on this unit?, tctallant, Nov-01-02, 11:02 AM, (18) RE: Alco RSD12, anyone working on this unit?, andrew510, Nov-01-02, 01:03 PM, (19) RE: Alco RSD12, anyone working on this unit?, Coonskin, Nov-01-02, 05:19 PM, (20) RE: Alco RSD12, anyone working on this unit?, tctallant, Nov-04-02, 12:51 PM, (21) RE: Alco RSD12, anyone working on this unit?, enocell, Nov-04-02, 01:54 PM, (22) RE: Alco RSD12, anyone working on this unit?, kwk100, Nov-04-02, 06:25 PM, (23) RE: Alco RSD12, anyone working on this unit?, enocell, Nov-06-02, 12:55 PM, (24) RE: Alco RSD12, anyone working on this unit?, ge44tonner, Nov-06-02, 01:10 PM, (25) RE: Alco RSD12, anyone working on this unit?, tctallant, Nov-06-02, 06:18 PM, (27) RE: Alco RSD12, anyone working on this unit?, Coonskin, Nov-06-02, 03:46 PM, (26)

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LAST EDITED ON Oct-24-02 AT 08:17 PM (EDT)

With the longer body and 6-wheel trucks they were really nice looking units. NKP 329 is preserved at the Mad River & NKP Museum in Bellevue, Ohio. There is a nice picture of this unit at

http://nkprr.railfan.net/museumpict/image8.htmlI believe the C&O had these as well, and maybe LS&I. When I first saw your post, I thought maybe you were talking to me (heh heh, read my online name.) I myself am still trying to figure out how to make a box with GMAX. If you have the skills to produce an RSD12 yourself, PLEASE do! The RS11's look good on my trains but the RSD12's would look even better on the long coal drags. Please keep us updated on your progress, if you are able to take on this project. I am sure there are a lot of Alco fans on these boards.Mark

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i think i have an LP with sounds of ATSF RSD12's - they can be wierd sounding locos!! - lol - anyway of getting the sounds off the LP and wack em into MSTS??cheers
mike

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Actually, I'm not sure that ATSF owned any RSD12. As I recall, the Santa Fe units were either RSD7 or RSD15. The RSD12 had twelve-cylinder Alco 251 series prime movers, while the RSD15 was a sixteen-cylinder 251 series. I suppose that they might sound similar enough that a good recording of a RSD15 could stand-in for the sounds of a RSD12.
I'm aware that there are ways to get sounds from recordings into MSTS, but I'm not any kind of expert about it. However, it seems likely to me that a first step would be to convert the LP sound (analog)into a digital format such as a *.wav file.
You would have to find good clean sound bites of the engine noise at nine different settings; idle and throttle notches #1 through #8. Each sound bite would then be edited in such a way that it could be a few-second-long segment and looped so that when played continuously it sounds like a sustained noise. Once you get that (and its not easy to get one to 'loop' without stuttering), then the sounds are named according to the MSTS file names in the 'sounds' folder. Names like 'powercruise1.wav', 'powercruise2.wav', as I recall.
The sounds intended to be heard in the cabview are different from those heard in the external views, too. The sounds intended for the external views are prefixed with the letter 'x', are are named like 'xpowercruise1.wav'.
Dan

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Love them "Gators" !!! Ron K of Rockford

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I can not remember if the C&O rostered any units.
The LS&I unit(s) were second hand.
My memory is fuzzy at best, but I believe the Santa Fe units were RSD15s, the gators had huge snouts & an impressive wheelbase. Also had the 16 cylinder engine as opposed to the 12 cyl engine in the RS11/RSD12. Nicky fan Mike (RSD 12) please contact me off line (tallant@ccf.org) to chat on the NKP. As for my talents with 3D software, they are still in there infancy, but one has to begin somewhere. TCTallant

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C&O had 4 RSD12's purchased in 1956. In the mid 70's they were sold to the LS&I and they ran until the early '90s. A pretty long life considering the type of use.

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I have pictures of two Pennsy High-nose RSD-12's exiting the Gallitzin Tunnels. If anybody is building this, I will provide the pictures (scanned in of course) to help them out.Thomas Pearce TVRRMAN18 Year Old Avid Pennsy (and East Broad Top RR) Fan

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Do you have pics taken straight from the side? (to be used as truck texture)
I may be able to try to make this loco.

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>C&O had 4 RSD12's purchased in 1956. In the mid 70's they
>were sold to the LS&I and they ran until the early '90s. A
>pretty long life considering the type of use. A couple of the ex-LS&I units are still usable. The West Tennessee Railroad still has 1852 and 1853, currently stored serviceable in Jackson, TN. Rumor has it that they may be up for sale, but I can't confirm that. A WTNN employee told me only that they were "stored serviceable," and that they might be used this year when the already-delayed grain shipping rush starts.
1853 and 2054 (ex-SP) sit at the Trenton TN depot in July 2001.
Here's a couple of photos of the remaining units being used for parts. 1850 and 1851 still wear their green LS&I paint, while 1803 still carries the older solid maroon.
Both images made at the Trenton TN depot in February 2001.Bart Damons

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Which prgram are you using?

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Enocell-Just starting with 3d canvas, but I also have TSM & Gmax somewhere on the HD at home. Still need to register 3DC if I keep using it. Chose 3DC upn a recomendation of a friend. Have little experience with it so far. What have/are you using for the pullman heavyweights, NW2, SW8 ?
Drop me an email: tallant@ccf.org if you please. I wish to discuss a few things about computer modeling & Pullman heavyweights. Thanks,TCTallant

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Here's what I've compiled for a roster of RSD12s, this includes all built (171) and some of their second/third ownersUS production (69):
C&O 6700-6709 to B&O 2007-2016, 2 to Utah RR 600-601, 4 to LS&I
LS&I (lake Shore & Ishpeming) 1801-1804 – purchased new, 1851-1854 from B&O
NKP 325-333 to N&W 2325-2333, 329 saved, 8 scrapped
PRR 8655-8679, renumber to 6855-6879, to PC 6855-6879, to CR 6855-6879
SP 7000-7020, renumber to 2950-2970 Canadian (MLW) production for export (10):
RFFSA (originally for E.F. Central do Brasil) 3501-3510,
one unit renumbered 7156 (I assume all re# 7151-7160)Production for Mexico (US or MLW?) (92):
FCP (Ferrocarril del Pacfico) 509-520 & 1502-1508
NdeM (Nacionales de Mexico) 7400-7472(If I have the Mexican Ry heritage correct, then FCP, NdeM, and Chihuahua Pacific merged to form FNM - Ferrocarries Nacionales de Mexico)I have aquired pictures of a number of RSD12s from a variety of web sites, but lack pictures for units of C&O, B&O, Utah Ry, LS&I and FCP. I would appreciate any pictures of these units, as well as the rest of the roads. At present, I have begun work on the RSD12 - lets hope the learning curve isn't that long. Thomas P. - any help will be greatly appreciated.TCTallant

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LAST EDITED ON Oct-30-02 AT 09:36 PM (EST)

Here's a photo of Utah Railway #600, which according to your roster is an ex-C&O unit. Photo from the George Elwood web site.

And some photos of Mexican Units, also from the George Elwood site

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>I have aquired pictures of a number of RSD12s from a variety
>of web sites, but lack pictures for units of C&O, B&O, Utah
>Ry, LS&I and FCP. I would appreciate any pictures of these
>units, as well as the rest of the roads. At present, I have
>begun work on the RSD12 - lets hope the learning curve isn't
>that long. For pictures of the LS&I units, go to http://www.i2k.com/~dpierce/LSI/gallery.html and scroll down to the sections with the Curtis Fortenberry and Joe Seidl pictures. There you can find photos of the RSD-12s in all 3 LS&I paint schemes.Bart Damons

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Thanks all for the help.I have located many of the pictures y'all posted from the G. Elwood website along with a number of other sites. If anyone has yet to see Mr. Elwoods site, simply type in "George Elwood" in any search engine & his fallen flags website will be in the top 3 hits. An invaluable source for any RR fan.Also managed to locate a few C&O/B&O shots in books I have, but I'm still looking for more for these two roads. Unfortunately I still lack any photos for the FCP RSD12s, but I have a few shots of RSD5s - so I may be able to guess on the correct paint for a FCP RSD12. There are still a number of websites for Mexican RRs that I have yet to tap - mostly due to my utter lack of understanding Spanish. I also have cataloged a number of the variations between the RSD12s for modeling. Enocell - I have a few nice side shots with good truck detail, and If worst comes to worst, the Mad River Museum is about 2 hours from my home & I can stomp all around the NKP RSD12 #329. I shall contact you off list for a few quick questions. Also, thank you for the offer for help.Current plan: Build the RSD12 with a number of variations & try to release the unit in all appropriate road names. With a bit of painting help, I think the project is reasonable. \TCTallant

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Here's a photo of B&O #2007, ex C&O unit from the Northeast.Railfan.net website.

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Those high hoods are awesome looking engines!It would be cool to have one for MSTS.Andre

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Thanks for the nice B&O shot. I have not seen it before - it certainly will help.Andre - I've begun working on the unit. It is my first, so I will take a bit of time as I'm still learning. TCTallant

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heres a good shot of SF 9820(rsd-15) if you need it.
greetings from atspw

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TCTallant:Just so to know for sure: Are you undertaking construction of an RSD 11 or 15? If an 11, I foresee the BR/KP Sub using some loaner C&O power!!Andre Ming

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AndreI do not know of an RSD11. If there is such a beast, it was never built for US or Canadian use - maybe export? I am by no means an alco expert, just a fan. I believe you are speaking of the RS11, which has been produced. If I remember correctly it was on the free section of the Train Artisans website. Someone correct me if I have the info wrong. If it is no longer there, I should be able to email the software to you. I believe there is also an RS18 (Canadian built unit only) available somewhere on the web - just can not remember where. As a quick note: Alcos with "RS" are 4 axle locos, those with "RSD" are 6 axle locos (all axles powered), and those with "RSC" are 6 axle locos riding on A-1-A trucks (center axle is an idler on these 3 axle trucks). the whole idea of the idleer axle was to reduce axle load on light trackage (for the RSC2 and RSC3) and for god knows what reason on the Alco PA. A quick spotting feature for also 3 axle trucks is to look at the spacing. Those with even axle spacing are A-1-A trucks while those with an uneven spacing are trucks with all axles powered.The RS11/RSD12 - essentially these are the same locos, they primarily differ in the trucks & frame length (14 inches, not the guess of 5 foot I mentioned previously). Both have a 12 cyl. 251 engine, produce 1800 HP, etc. Back to your question: The RS11 is out, no I will not be working on one. As for the RSD15, this unit shares a lot of parts in common with the RSD12 - so I will likely work on it at some time (but don't hold your breath). The basic differences between the RSD12 & RSD15 are length at a first glance. The RSD15 production overlapped that of the RSD12, but it has a 16 cyl engine & produced 2400 HP. Other interesting 6 axle Alcos were the RSD4s & RSD5s. Basically these looked like 6 axle RS3s. They were produced roughly at the same time & preceeded the RSD12. Variations in the RSD4 & 5 were internal and centered around the generator. The RSD5 was 1600 HP like the RSD3, but I am unsure of the RSD4 as it may have been 1500 HP. All horsepower (HP) measurements included here are American, I do not know off hand how they convert to British HP (BHP) or metric measurements. The conversions are fairly basic, I simply have no use for them. TCTallant

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LAST EDITED ON Nov-04-02 AT 01:56 PM (EST)

Here are the trucks. I may remove the polygon smoothing, it doesn't look very good.The RSD15 might be easy to do, just strecth the RSD12 a bit and then edit the long hood texture.

Attachments

http://www.train-sim.com/dcforum/User_files/3dc6c1c4550e19de.jpg

http://www.train-sim.com/dcforum/User_files/3dc6c1d6554033de.jpg

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Hi enocell,I was wondering if you could post a pic of you locomotive that has one truck with the polygon smoothing and another without? I know what it means, but I have never seen it compaired in the game...kwk100,A Diesel drinking, piston clankin', air pollutin', smoke belchin' ten wheel buggy, from Seattle WA...

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LAST EDITED ON Nov-06-02 AT 12:56 PM (EST)

Here you can see it. The truck on the left has polygon smoothing on and the right one is without smoothing(and looks better, IMO). Poly smoothing is perfect for tubes, tanks and arched roofs. But not for thisk kind of things. The trucks look like they were rubber(!)

Attachments

http://www.train-sim.com/dcforum/User_files/3dc956c40078c257.jpg

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I agree, the truck without polygon smoothing looks much better.

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Enocell,I agree without the polygon smoothing is far superior. I've seen the NKP preserved RSD12 up close and there is nothing "smooth" about the trucks. The angles are sharp and the surfaces are flat. The truck without the polygon smoothing captures that feel quite nicely. TCT

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TCTallant:My typo. Yes, I was referring to an RSD12. I have TA's nice RS11 and will eventually do an L&N paint with it. An RSD12 would be nice so I may eventually paint one into a C&O unit for use on the BR/KP Subs.Thanks for undertaking this project, hope it works well for you.Andre

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