Yo,TSM/3D CAD guys!

I posted this in the RE forum, apparently nobody knows the answer, so I thought I'd come in here and annoy you guys for a while. Tell me the solution and I'll go away, I promise!
I cloned some track sections into static objects, similar to John Milligan's dummy tracks, to place over the top of existing track. The idea is to be able to have more than one track texture for that little used/abandoned siding effect.
From some angles it ain't too bad, but:
When the dummy tracks are in the same frame the engines & cars get this wierd semi-transparent effect, you can see parts of the engine thru other parts, and trees thru the opaque part of the texture from the side.
I looked at dumb tracks and it's the same there, whether I use that as a basis or steal default track shapes and/or Okrasa's Xtracks shapes the same thing happens.
What I've tried:
1. Changing the ESD in the .sd file (the original is 2, which makes it look in \Global, that automatically gets changed to 1 to make it a normal static object, I also tried 257)
2. Deleting the no visual obstruction line from the .sd
3. Deleting the bounding box lines from the .sd
4. Making the texture a flat bitmap (export, ace no alpha)Other than changing the names of the ace textures that the .s file looks for and renaming the .s and .sd, and changing the .s reference in the .sd to match the new names, I haven't done anything else to the .s file other than uncompressing it to hack it. I didn't recompress the .s file afterwards, that might be the next logical step. Before doing that, I've already looked in the .s file (by process of elimination I figure it's gotta be in there somewhere!), but comparing things like values for heirarchy with normal static objects don't give me any clues.
Anybody point me in the right direction?

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RE: Yo,TSM/3D CAD guys!, caldrail, Aug-28-02, 08:22 PM, (1) RE: Yo,TSM/3D CAD guys!, sniper297, Aug-28-02, 09:23 PM, (2) RE: Yo,TSM/3D CAD guys!, johnf, Aug-28-02, 11:48 PM, (3) RE: Yo,TSM/3D CAD guys!, sniper297, Aug-29-02, 01:33 AM, (4) RE: Yo,TSM/3D CAD guys!, KeltikSylk, Aug-29-02, 11:42 AM, (5) RE: Yo,TSM/3D CAD guys!, sniper297, Aug-29-02, 03:03 PM, (6) RE: Yo,TSM/3D CAD guys!, troub, Aug-29-02, 03:09 PM, (7) RE: Yo,TSM/3D CAD guys!, sniper297, Aug-29-02, 06:06 PM, (8) RE: Yo,TSM/3D CAD guys!, smmille1, Aug-29-02, 07:15 PM, (9) RE: Yo,TSM/3D CAD guys!, smmille1, Aug-29-02, 07:48 PM, (10) RE: Yo,TSM/3D CAD guys!, sniper297, Aug-29-02, 08:58 PM, (11) RE: Yo,TSM/3D CAD guys!, caldrail, Aug-29-02, 09:21 PM, (12) RE: Yo,TSM/3D CAD guys!, baldwin, Sep-01-02, 03:13 PM, (13) RE: Problem solved, leads to another!, sniper297, Sep-02-02, 07:11 PM, (14)

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LAST EDITED ON Aug-28-02 AT 08:23 PM (EDT)

Well I'm not sure this helps, but isn't this something to do with the alpha priority? This is why you can make ballast appear on bridges by ticking the 'terrain object' box. So the answer lies either in textures or (more likely) the shape file itself.PS I've just thought - Is this actually the same bug that makes water flash?

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I thought so at first too, but I already tried changing the ace file so it was a flat bitmap (looks awful) instead of with alpha or -trans, no effect. Placing one of these objects directly on the ground instead of over the top of the track sections (even skinned with the flat, no transparency bitmap) produces the same effect, so I figure it's gotta be somewhere in the .s file.

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Hey Jim,check the height of the object in the sd file if the bounding box is too big it would cut into the engine and give you that effect. Now if you can do that on a beach texture ....he he

john fowlis

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Hell, I could do it on any texture if I could figure out the problem, John. I'll take a shot at what you suggested, but I don't think that's it, one thing I tried was cutting the bounding box lines out altogether, and some track shapes don't have bounding box definitions to begin with and they still do it.

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Help?
I'm still tryin' to follow what you're doin'Frank Musick
Lehigh & Atlantic Railway, Canal Navigation Company

<www.KelticSylk.com>

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LAST EDITED ON Aug-29-02 AT 03:03 PM (EDT)

Ha! Well, it's hard to follow what I'm doin' cuz I ain't doin' anything, I'm trying to do something but I keep getting reactor SCRAM.
I just looked at the default 10 meter straight section which don't have a bounding box, and I'm currently working with only a single clone of that placed on the ground next to the tracks, so the bounding box apparently isn't it either. SIMISA@@@@@@@@@@JINX0t1t______shape ( A1t10mStrt.s
ESD_Detail_Level ( 0 )
ESD_Alternative_Texture ( 2 )
ESD_No_Visual_Obstruction ()
)
That's it for the 10 meter straight section, ESD 2 to ESD 1 or 0 or 257 is obviously the first thing that has to be changed, otherwise the ESD 2 makes it look in \Global. I tried changing
ESD_No_Visual_Obstruction () to
ESD_No_Visual_Obstruction ( 0 ),
or deleting that line altogether, same effect. I think I've pretty much exhausted the possibilities in the .sd and .ace files, so whatever it is has to be in the .s file since there's no other possibilities left.Frank, this is the kind of "bowling pins in the air" type of thing we were talking about earlier, the reason I'm not getting frustrated with this is cuz I toss it out for the other guys to help with, and work on something else until I get a suggestion to try. Kinda like weathering cars for a while when figuring out the kinks in the trackwork starts getting to you, lay it aside for a while and do something else, get back to it later with a fresh attitude.Now I gotta subscribe to MR again to see what they're gonna say about us simmernuts, I let the subscription lapse a couple years ago!

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Are you sure the problem's not really in that engine you're using?

troub
MSTS: Illinois Central

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Hadn't even considered that, but since it effects a default engine that makes it unsuitable for distribution until I can get it to no longer affect default engines that way. It does make a difference tho, something to do with the way the shapes are skinned on the dash 9 and gp-38.
Default Dash 9;
PO&N reskin gp38;
Judd Spittler's gp-38;
Even found one OE passenger coach affected in the couple minutes I played with this. Don't affect SD-40s or John's Alcos, can't really tell with any of the steamers I tried since black on black is too hard to see.
Kinda moot point tho, can't exactly run around the world fixing the mapping on the default engines on everybody's computer, so the best approach would be:
1. Get these things to behave like regular static objects and not do that, or,
2. If we can't figure out exactly what in the .s file causes it so we can fix it, get one of you TSM/3D Canvas wizards to make me some track shapes as static objects.

Like I say, these started as John Milligan's "Dummy Tracks", and I tried a couple of Okrasa's Xtracks sections cloned as static objects, and when I got this problem I went back to the starting point and cloned my own from the default track shapes in \Global\Shapes.
When any of these are regular or Xtracks track sections they don't do this, but the whole point of this excercise is to be able to have more than one track texture in a single route, which won't work if it's a track section object.

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which OE car is that? It's the only one of the choices you've offered that I have on my system. I guess I'll be nice and look into this. It's easier than working on something I ought to be working on.

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LAST EDITED ON Aug-29-02 AT 08:30 PM (EDT)

So what was the problem again? edit: stupid image problems...

Attachments

http://www.train-sim.com/dcforum/User_files/3d6ebc904046a9f0.jpg

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LAST EDITED ON Aug-29-02 AT 09:02 PM (EDT)

I dunno, one of the OE passenger coaches, they all look alike to me. You don't have the default Dash 9 or GP-38? Hee-hee, and I thought the West Side was bad, you guys gotta lock up your trainsim so they don't steal your engines?! Bummer.
Anyway, you gave me an idea, anyone who has po&nver5.zip can test this out with a destructive patch, and running po&nver5.exe again will fix it (I know it's still John's favorite route, he's just playing with bodiddly to bust my chops). Huh? The rest of you guys don't have the Port Ogden & Northern? Oh, come on, it's only a 3.5 meg download and an easy install - whaddya mean you never heard of it? Wise guy.
Here's the patch:http://www.train-sim.com/dcforum/User_files/3d6ebea94a71bd92.zip
Download, unzip to \Train Simulator\Routes, that will add the .s and .sd file to \portogden5\shapes, the textures to \portogden5\textures, and the hacked world\.w file to \World, overwriting the Stevens Point quad. Starting the 5stevenpoint activity, pull the geep out of the engine shed next to the fake dirtytracks (that's not what they're gonna look like, this is a flat bitmap ace with no alpha channel so we can isolate the cause without worrying about whether the texture might be the problem, cuz it's not), and switch to outside view. Spin around and get the angle where you can see the fuel tank (the dirtytrack sections have to be in the frame) thru the side.

Another view close to the ground will give you a "TREE-D" effect;Hee-hee, I crack myself up. Anyhow, if nobody knows for sure exactly what value in the .s file is causing this, you can hack on it (dirty10mstrt.s) and go into the sim with that default geep to either confirm it's still there or scream "eureka!", zip up the fixed .s file and email it to me, with a note saying what you changed so I can do the rest like that, after testing with an alpha texture, of course. Be a hero, earn the undying respect of dozens, get a town on the new PO&N named after you. Not you, John, you already got one, don't get greedy! "Port Fowlis & Northern?" No way!

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Thats one of the Great Western Railway coaches from the Settle & Carlisle route (EUROPE1)

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SniperI had a look at this one and think I have the answer. The .s file is fine, a copy of A1t10mstrt with the ace refs changed. The problem is that this is no longer recognised as a track section because it is outside of the global/shapes folder, and if you put it in there the sim don't like it because the trackshape is not on the list.The sim doesn't know what to do with it so throws a wobbly.The answer lies in the RE. Change the properties of every section of this (track) to terrain object and all the seethrough goes away.Mervyn

mervyn@madasafish.com

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LAST EDITED ON Sep-02-02 AT 07:12 PM (EDT)

Hee-hee, but it's a problem that's easier to live with. The world famous Okrasa Ghia came up with the line causing the trouble, when he made a static object like a bridge into an Xtracks section he changed the prim_state tex_idxs from "( 1 1 ) 0 0 0 0 1" to "( 1 1 ) 0 0 0 0 3", so he suggested I reverse that, and I did. Changing the two lines in each shape file for the cloned track sections that had a 3 at the end from this:prim_state Base ( 00000000 0
tex_idxs ( 1 1 ) 0 0 0 0 1
)to this:prim_state Base ( 00000000 0
tex_idxs ( 1 1 ) 0 0 0 0 1
)That fixed the trouble, no more engines in see-thru negligees. Now the problem is a train driving over the fake track sections don't cast a shadow on the roadbed, I did try making it a terrain object, and/or deleting the ESD_No_Visual_Obstruction () line from the SD file, no shadows. Not a major problem, IMAO, since the shadows in the sim are rather odd sometimes anyway (watch them going over a high bridge, for example!), and if the acleantrack1.ace is a dark & dirty enough texture it's not that noticeable.Thanks for all the feedback, guys, I'll get out of your hair now and go back where I belong, let you get back to work. Anyone interested in following this, we're a little more rowdy over in the Gandy Dancer's section, so the threads might seem a little cluttered.http://www.train-sim.com/dcforum/DCForumID6/6294.htmlhttp://www.train-sim.com/dcforum/DCForumID6/6334.html

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