Tips for new designers

LAST EDITED ON Aug-07-02 AT 05:21 PM (EDT) by Macster (moderator)

If you think that creating add-on content for Train Sim is only for someone who belongs to one of those "groups"... think again... Microsoft has given you nearly all the tools you need to create your own version of reality (or fantasy if your imagination actually lets you create a railroad from scratch) The people who create content were not born with the 3D model or Pixel Blaster talent... they cultivated their skills though time and practice...First let me say that I'm talking about motivation not technical tips.Tools of the trade.1) Don't bother to ask which tools are best for making models and bitmaps before evaluating your monetary commitment to the "hobby". If you end up being told that 3D Studio Max and Adobe Photoshop are the best tools, you will be convinced that anything you produce is inferior work. This will affect your desire to complete a project. Don't let that happen. If your funds are low, try GMAX. Some of the well known skinners claim to use nothing more than MS PAINT that came with Windows to do their skins.
Personal Motivation2) Don't create a model or skin for anyone but yourself. Do it because it's a challenge. If you create Train Simulator content to win the approval of your peers you are setting yourelf up for dissapointment. If you produce content for your own personal enjoyment you will have an easier time "not" taking it personal when someone feels the need to "flame" your work. Getting it right the first time3) Don't expect your projects to be perfect... especially when you start out. Yes, you've seen that many of the designers produce content that exceeds what was provided by the developer of the Simulator. You can too. Stuck? ...ask for help. Sure, there's going to be a few designers that might seem to fall all over themselves to help you... but that's "ok", right? You might also find that some of the designers don't really know how to help you but they still will provide encouragement and guidance.Criticism4) You can just about always tell when you are receiving criticism from someone who has never created Train Simulator content. They never offer guidance. Decide now... to just ignore them. What's the #1 criticism you should probably ignore? Being accused of producing "vaporware". Don't set deadlines for yourself. Some people may not like that it takes you 6 months to produce a model or a skin... Do you have to care what they think? (Of course not!)Your Tools5) No matter which tools you decide to use... you are not going to get perfect results overnight. You are going to need to start on projects that you will learn from, not ones that will make everyone say "WOW". Practice... A lot! It took me 2 months before I liked what I was doing with a 3D Modeling tool.What if it's already been done?6) Do another one! If you really want to create something... Like a 50 Ft Boxcar and someone has already done it... do you think you can't do one for yourself? Maybe you will end up making better couplers, or nicer trucks... who knows until you give it a try!?!
Keping your sanity7) If you release your add-on content to the public... be prepared to trust your babies and "let them go". Maybe nobody will ever download them... Maybe they will become wildly popular... either way, consider it out of your control. Sure, you may end up feeling compelled to protect your "copyright" if some crazy, lazy person "steals" your work but you should also be prepared to not let it bother you lest you prematurely lose faith in humanity, and end up grumpy, cynical and fading away.If you do your add-on for for #1 (yourself) you will be making yourelf happy first... before you proceed to share your work with others. You will probably not care so much when someone with nothing better to do attempts to drag your name and your work through the mud for whatever reason.These are just my thoughts and opinions that I've expressed in an effort to motivate new designers in the wake of an apparent exodus of well known content providers.Don't say you can't. Try. Don't "say" you'll try... Do it.
Pete WillardNote: Topic was Anchored by Macster

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

RE: Tips for new designers., concaddy, Jul-21-02, 04:44 PM, (1) RE: Tips for new designers., JensChris, Jul-22-02, 09:45 AM, (11) RE: Tips for new designers., MKT1972, Jul-21-02, 04:45 PM, (2) RE: Tips for new designers., Stew, Jul-21-02, 04:47 PM, (3) RE: Tips for new designers., MJL, Jul-21-02, 05:11 PM, (4) RE: Tips for new designers., zhivago47, Jul-21-02, 09:29 PM, (5) RE: Tips for new designers., AlabamaRailfan, Jul-21-02, 09:59 PM, (6) RE: Tips for new designers., tryagin, Jul-21-02, 10:12 PM, (7) RE: Tips for new designers., rdamurphy, Jul-21-02, 11:31 PM, (8) RE: Tips for new designers., johnf, Jul-22-02, 00:05 AM, (9) RE: Tips for new designers., cdntrains, Jul-22-02, 00:55 AM, (10) RE: Tips for new designers., doom262003, Jul-22-02, 10:31 AM, (12) RE: Tips for new designers., plainsman, Jul-22-02, 01:28 PM, (13) RE: Tips for new designers., MKT1972, Jul-22-02, 04:02 PM, (15) RE: Tips for new designers., henry3, Jul-22-02, 02:25 PM, (14) RE: Tips for new designers., Hack, Jul-22-02, 04:21 PM, (16) RE: Tips for new designers., bmw481, Jul-22-02, 05:44 PM, (17) RE: Tips for new designers., sniper297, Jul-23-02, 00:11 AM, (18) RE: Tips for new designers., GMOF3A, Jul-23-02, 03:10 AM, (19) RE: Tips for new designers., obo, Jul-23-02, 07:18 AM, (20) RE: Tips for new designers., AlphaMaster, Jul-23-02, 10:28 AM, (21) RE: Tips for new designers., pwillard, Jul-23-02, 02:03 PM, (23) RE: Tips for new designers., KeltikSylk, Jul-23-02, 12:10 PM, (22) RE: Tips for new designers., whleighton, Jul-27-02, 02:33 AM, (24) RE: Tips for new designers., LooseCannon17, Aug-01-02, 05:27 PM, (25) RE: Tips for new designers., dphorton, Aug-04-02, 01:11 PM, (26) RE: Tips for new designers., Lone_Gunman_SG, Aug-06-02, 11:38 PM, (27)

Conferences | Topics | Previous Topic | Next Topic

I agree 200% Pete....

John Rosh
TKW Public Relations

http://www.trainsimstuff.com

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

I agree 200% concaddy, would be 400% for ya Pete...lolJens-Chris

16 years old, from Germany, MSTS 3D Add-on maker and repainter ---- Jens-Chris ----

-- "Power for You" --

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Words of truth and wisdom for the masses. 1972

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Well said Pete, this would be a good one to have anchored and locked to the top of the forum.Stew

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Very well said
"Do, or do not, there is no try"....Yoda
"The public be damned," William Vanderbilt
(son of Cornelius Vanderbilt)..when asked by a reporter whether railroads should be run for the public benefit. this second quote can apply to MSTS creations, don't do them FOR the public, do them for yourself, (and then if you want, share them) Matt

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

A much needed post Pete......very well said and very timely......Tim
The Spur Line
http://tahunter.net/thespurline
Appalachia RR

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

I agree! This message is OUTSTANDING, Pete! One of the best I have ever read here at Train-Sim.com!Highball!

John D. Peterson
Webmaster
http://www.alabamarailfan.com

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Excellent. Very true and timely. Thank you Pete.Tim

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

That's exactly the attitude I took when I released my 30 foot tank car. 495 downloads so far. I feel successful, and had a great time doing it. It is not the best car in the library, and it definitely isn't the worst. The thing that bothers me is that I posted some pics of my new 5bay hoppers, and they were brushed aside due to the drama on the forums for the past several days. Who cares, I'm going to release the things anyway...Rob

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

All you simmer's heed the good reverend and I'll Join the Choir!Amen Brother, No truer words about making stuff for transim can be written, When you make something make it for yourself First and foremost, chances are when you want it so do many others, Take your time, we'll be here when your done or when you need help.oh and Tim your sweepers rock man! way to go.

john fowlis

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

LAST EDITED ON Jul-22-02 AT 00:56 AM (EDT)

This post needs to be anchored and forwarded to every new user here!!And like others have said, an excellent time to bring it up Pete! cdntrains "must be trains in the blood"
http://www.frograil.com/gifs/gifs.htm

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Thanks. Some people cannot keep their mouths closed sometimes. Trust me, I don't flame unless I think I can do better (for 99% of what is here I can't). I try not to post more than mild criticism. I will have an extremely large amount of time to work, in the area of 10-12 hr/day (no job, no girlfriend(I am 15)), so I'll be fooling with GMax for about a week and see what results I get. My only trouble is finding something someone hasn't already done.

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

If you stay stuck, I can think of about 115 projects to do. I will start with the Baldwin AS-16 (4 axle) and AS-616 (6 axle) flatnose road switchers. Then the Alco C628, Then the Alco RSD5, then the Alco C430 (two versions, NYC and Reading), then the Milwaukee electrics (lots of these), then the Highnose GP20 (BN, GN, and WP), And don't forget the HR616 as run by Canadian National, the most advanced Alco/MLW model to be built and operated (yeah the C640 was bigger, but not as advanced technically). Now as for rolling stock, I see a lot more variety in tank cars and gondolas than I see available here. And there are still a lot of passenger car designs that are unbuilt (like Milwaukee "Beavertails"). Now we have barely touched the steam area, lots of variety there. And the Lima Diesel Switchers, I have not seen one of those??
I could keep going, but you get the idea.
Thanks and look forward to whatever you build.
Bob

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Do not let the fact that it has already been done keep you from doing something. If nothing else use the existing model as motivation to do better. 1972

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

LAST EDITED ON Jul-22-02 AT 02:26 PM (EDT)

Very well said, Pete!I'm not a designer, but I would imagine that your advice would be equally applicable to re-skinners route builders, and all the other MSTS "disciplines" too.Henry

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Excellent post, Pete. Perhaps we could persuade the moderators here to make this thread a "sticky." Cheers!
Marc - 3DTrains
http://www.3dtrains.com

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Pete,
Couldn't of said it better myself! Great Post!bmw481
Norfolk & Southern Wabash Route
http://www.geocities.com/bmw481/index.html

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

And here I was just thinking we oughtta form a group. Problem is, we're all too crazy to work together!

MSTS Route Developers Association
Motto: Abandon Hope All Ye Who Enter Here.

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

LAST EDITED ON Jul-23-02 AT 03:13 AM (EDT)

...Best thing I've read on this site for quite some time..2 thumbs up.
.
(BTW...I'm secretely working on the GM&O route..don't tell anyone, especially my wife!)

Paul...
www.mstsgmo.com

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Excellent post.How about putting a copy of this (non-sticky) in the main MSTS forum? If one of the main goals of this message is to recruit new designers then that is where a large part of your target audience is.Rob.

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

LAST EDITED ON Jul-23-02 AT 10:28 AM (EDT)

You got a new designer here! But i cant get the hang of 3DS or GMAX. Can you use lightwave 7 for this? I dont have LW7 but i am just wondering.

-Danny
-Alphalpha
It's All in a Days Work for Me!

--YES--We Will take over MS--

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

LAST EDITED ON Jul-23-02 AT 02:06 PM (EDT)

RE: Lightwave.A friend here at work has Lightwave 7 and I told him about how I was having trouble producing the correct shape of a 52' Tank Car body. He said, moments later, "You mean like this?"... <grin> Experienced modelers make it look so easy...Of course he whipped it out in a few moments and while it looked easy, the Lightwave interface is by far the least intuitive one I've ever seen... He saved it in 3ds format and I imported it into 3d Canvas. It was a bit too complex, so I never used it, but it was fun to see it work.If your source model is in 3ds format, the train sim tools also know what to do with it. Note: One of the reasons I use 3D Canvas is because it allows me to do neat things like import other graphic formats.Pete Willard

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

I appreciate the advice. The projects I'm planning are all the things I could never afford in the decades I've tried to follow model railroading as a hobby. MSTS has enabled me to fulfill a few childhood fantasies and I mean to make up for lost time. If I can share them, it's icing on a big cake.I agree with you about the tools you select. I use TSM strictly because it is very simple. I do not want to learn rocket science. If I have to use the point function to create the Triplex it's no big deal. The higher level functions are nice, but it's the result that counts. The view controls in the other programs make no sense to me. GMAX controls in general confuse me...So the free MSTS gamepack lies unused. Perhaps some day when I grow a second brain...Note to 3D modeling software publishers...
If you are going to include binary functions call them by some name we common folk understand please. I was a draftsman for 15 years from pencil to CAD and I never encountered any of the terms used in these 3D programs. Then there are the programs that have "intuitive" interfaces. Sorry, the Bryce interface doesn't match my intuitive powers. I do not live in the Twilight Zone.Anyway, I had my doubts about TSM and my own abilities until I came across a comment from Getan Bellanger that he uses nothing but...Haven't had any doubts since. If TSM can produce the kind of work Getan has shared it'll do just fine.I use Paint Shop Pro because I already have it. Combined with TGAtools it does whatever I want for textures.For line work, like the logo in my signature, I use Visio. Once again, it's because it's available to me. It does a nice job and isn't as complex or costly as AutoCAD. Some items, particularly the Logo, need a combination of tools. In my experience that is more often the case than not. You often need a combination of programs from different publishers to get the job done.The software choice is a personal comfort thing. I tried as many as I could, they all have demo versions available. Cost was a factor. Affordability has always been my stumbling block in "hard" modeling. I couldn't, and wouldn't, spend hundreds for models, brass plastic, or otherwise. The same holds true for software and "soft" models.If there is one core lesson I have learned in the several months it took to even start a model it's to be patient, keep at it, and try every option. If I don't like the results, I scrap the thing and start over. The worst that can happen is an education. I learn volumes from my mistakes.Above all, I take my time. I don't put pressure on myself. It's not like I do this for a living. There is a tendency to want to get up on stage and "show off". It hurts like hell when you fall off the stage, so I try not to climb up there. Ask questions and share the progress of your project. I've learned an enormous amount from such interaction here on the forum. Everbody here has some degree of interest in the same thing. There is a huge store of knowledge and experience to be shared. Some folks are just good at seeing things I can't. They find things I don't even look for.I listen to peoples advice, but ignore any demands. I try to never take anything I hear or see on the forum to heart. If a critique is fair, I consider it's points. If it's stupid, hateful, or ignorant I laugh and forget it. Sometimes I pay no attention at all.My personal experience is that most of the folks here are decent and will offer all kinds of help on a project. Even some of the "jerks" aren't really all that bad. If you approach them with attitude, all you'll get back is more attitude. That's not always the case, but this isn't a perfect world.Once again, thanks for your advice.Frank Musick
Lehigh & Atlantic Railway, Canal Navigation Company

<www.KelticSylk.com>

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Hey Pete,What a positive and refreshing change from all the nonplus flame wars that cropped up all over this forum. For the first time in days, I found a thread that was worth reading.There IS hope for this forum.Now for a little personal message: Chris-Jens, I'm glad to see you back. I notice that none of the people who complain have their name on an uploaded file.

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

The only way Microsoft Train Simulator can continue to evolve is if we continue to design. Just like cars and trucks and everything else man has created. Keep designing, making it better, if someone else already has one, build another one. Keep on building, and by the time my kids are old enough to use a computer (I don't even have any yet), Microsoft Train Simulator should rival real life images.Just 2 cents on a $10 subject, to everyone who designs, spends hours upon hours red-eyed infront of a computer to get one piece of rolling stock uploaded before they go to bed, you get kudos.
For everyone who downloads, then flames, without even trying to build it themselves, just hush, and let us be.LC17

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

To all,I agree. It seems as though people love to throw rocks. I for one appreciate all the hard work that Route Builders, Activity Creators, Locomotive, sound, cabs, etc., put in as a labor of love to make something. The people who critisize remind me of how shallow sometime we all can be. Get a grip and enjoy. If you don't like something don't use it. It is really that simple. Me, I will smell all of the Roses people make and enjoy.Best Regards,Dave Horton

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Well said. I also use those methods, for exaomple when i was making the Hastings Central Caboose.(i should take it on the other side, where its lighter!)

Attachments

http://www.train-sim.com/dcforum/User_files/3d50961e60ea8d51.jpg

Alert | IP

[ Home | MSTS Forum | MSTS FAQ | File Library ] Copyright © 2002 by Nels Anderson. All Rights Reserved.