DCForum Discussion Forum - Braking Systems

LAST EDITED ON Jun-20-02 AT 06:29 AM (EDT)I am havind this very annoying problem with brakes.
It all started when, after reveiwing my eng files in myPotugueses stock, and decided to change the brake sistems in loco's and wagons from single air pipe to twin air pipe... like they are in reality.
Most of the times (95%) the cosist just does not move. When I start taking wagons from the consists... then, with one or two it starts moving - so it means that there's something wrong between the brake systems of the loco and the wagons... but they are exactly equal:BrakeEquipmentType( "Triple_Valve, Auxilary_Reservoir, Emergency_brake_reservoir" )
BrakeSystemType( "Air_twin_pipe" )Another thing is. If I add a Distributor, both to loco and wagons they will move, with the lcoo having a serious power problem... ussually I canot go any faster than 60 km/h.. and it is not because of the load in the wagons.... besides... although an MLW loco from the 80's may have a distributor, I serioulsly doubt that an old Withcomb from 1952 will likely have any kind of electronic or computer controled brake sistem.So... what is it wrong?
What other possibilities are ther for this twin pipe to fail?
Has anyone tried any of this?Live long and prosperwww.cpvirtual.web.pt

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Although I just glanced at your post, and have not seen your files, I suspect that unlike your 2 or 3 line mod, that the entire braking spec area will need to be examined or replaced with appropriate parameters. When I make these changes, I usually paste in the braking data section from equipment that is setup like the system I am installing. Just make sure you get all the paraenthesis in the right place and set properly.
Hope this helps,
Bob

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If you think it could help... I'll post the eng file here...
I've taken out lights, smoke effects, description and operating procedures. SIMISA@@@@@@@@@@JINX0D0t______Wagon ( CP1560
Type ( Engine )
WagonShape ( cp1560.s )
Size ( 2.997m 4.356m 17.905m )
Mass ( 89.7t )
WheelRadius ( 20in )
InertiaTensor ( Box (3.0m 4.4m 17.954m) )
Coupling (
Type ( Automatic )
Spring (
Stiffness ( 1e6N/m 5e6N/m )
Damping ( 1e6N/m 1e6N/m )
Break ( 1.1e7N 1.1e7N )
r0 ( 20cm 30cm )
)
Velocity ( 0.1m/s )
)
Buffers (
Spring (
Stiffness ( 1e6N/m 5e6N/m )
Damping ( 1e6N/m/s 1e6N/m/s )
r0 ( 0m 1e9 )
)
Centre ( 0.5 )
Radius ( 1 )
Angle ( 0.5deg )
)

Adheasion ( 0.2 0.4 2 0 )
DerailRailHeight ( 4cm )
DerailRailForce ( 2.5*250e3lbs )
DerailBufferForce ( 200kN )
NumWheels ( 1 )
Friction (
100N/m/s 1 -1mph 0 1
5.1N/rad/s 1 -1rad/s 0 1
)
AntiSlip () BrakeEquipmentType( "Triple_Valve, Distributor, Auxilary_Reservoir, Emergency_brake_reservoir" )
BrakeSystemType( "Air_twin_pipe" )
MaxBrakeForce ( 198kN ) EmergencyBrakeResMaxPressure( 110 )
TripleValveRatio( 2.5 )
MaxReleaseRate( 30 )
MaxApplicationRate( 25 )
MaxAuxilaryChargingRate( 20 )
EmergencyResCapacity( 10 )
EmergencyResChargingRate( 25 )
BrakeCylinderPressureForMaxBrakeBrakeForce( 70 ) BrakeDistributorFullServicePressure( 82 )
BrakeDistributorMaxAuxilaryResPressure( 110 )
BrakeDistributorEmergencyResPressure( 110 )
BrakeDistributorReleaseRate( 10 )
BrakeDistributorApplicationRate( 15 )
BrakeDistributorTrainPipeControlRatio( 2.03 )
BrakeDistributorNormalFullReleasePressure( 110 ) IntakePoint ( -3.33 0.4 FuelDiesel )
IntakePoint ( 3.33 0.4 FuelDiesel ) Sound ( "1550Eng.sms" )
)Engine ( CP1560

Wagon ( CP1560 )
Type ( Diesel )
MaxPower ( 1251kW )
MaxForce ( 243kN )
MaxContinuousForce ( 193kN )
MaxVelocity ( 74mph )
MaxCurrent ( 1500A )
WheelRadius ( 20in )
Sanding ( 1e9mph ) NumWheels ( 12 )
MaxTemperature ( 120 )
MaxOilPressure ( 90 ) CabView ( gp38.cvf )
HeadOut ( 1.25 2.8 8.3 )
MaxDieselLevel ( 1037gal )
DieselUsedPerHourAtMaxPower ( 60gal )
DieselUsedPerHourAtIdle ( 8gal ) AirBrakesAirCompressorPowerRating( 1.2 )
AirBrakesMainMinResAirPressure( 0 )
AirBrakesMainMaxAirPressure( 90 )
AirBrakesMainResVolume( 8 )
AirBrakesAirCompressorWattage( 1900 )
AirBrakesCompressorRestartPressure( 87 )
AirBrakesAirUsedPerPoundsOfBrakePipePressure( 0.22 )
AirBrakesHasLowPressureTest( 1 )
AirBrakesIsCompressorElectricOrMechanical( 1 ) EngineBrakesControllerHasProportionalBrake( 1 )
EngineBrakesProportionalBrakeLag( 1 ) TrainBrakesControllerMinPressureReduction( 6 )
TrainBrakesControllerMaxApplicationRate( 10 )
TrainBrakesControllerMaxReleaseRate( 2 )
TrainBrakesControllerEmergencyApplicationRate( 40 )
TrainBrakesControllerMinSystemPressure( 0 )
TrainBrakesControllerMaxSystemPressure( 110 )
TrainBrakesControllerEmergencyBrakeTimePenalty( 100 )
TrainBrakesControllerFullServicePressureDrop( 26 ) DynamicBrakesMinUsableSpeed( 5 )
DynamicBrakesMaximumEffectiveSpeed( 25 )
DynamicBrakesMaximumForce( 20000 )
DynamicBrakesResistorCurrentLimit ( 5000 )
DynamicBrakesCutInSpeed( 8 )
DynamicBrakesMaxAirBrakePressure ( 15 )
DynamicBrakesFadingSpeed( 25 )
DynamicBrakesDelayTimeBeforeEngaging ( 10 )
DynamicBrakesMaximumSpeedForFadeOut ( 65 )
DynamicBrakesEffectAtMaximumFadeOut( 0 )
DynamicBrakesHigherSpeedCurveExponent( 1 )
DynamicBrakesLowerSpeedCurveExponent( 1 )
DynamicBrakesNumberOfControllerNotches( 10 ) BrakesEngineBrakeType( "Air_twin_pipe" )
BrakesTrainBrakeType( "Air_twin_pipe" )
BrakesEngineControllers( "Train, Independent, Dynamic" )

DoesBrakeCutPower( 1 )
DoesHornTriggerBell( 0 )
BrakeCutsPowerAtBrakeCylinderPressure( 15 ) DieselSmokeEffectInitialMagnitude( 1.5 )
DieselSmokeEffectMaxMagnitude( 1.5 )
DieselSmokeEffectInitialSmokeRate( 0.5 )
DieselSmokeEffectMaxSmokeRate( 2.5 )

DieselEngineIdleRPM( 1050 )
DieselEngineMaxRPM( 3000 )
DieselEngineSpeedOfMaxTractiveEffort( 14mph )
DieselEngineMaxRPMChangeRate( 40 ) DoesHornTriggerBell( 0 ) EmergencyStopMonitor(
MonitoringDeviceMonitorTimeLimit( 0 )
MonitoringDeviceAlarmTimeLimit( 0 )
MonitoringDevicePenaltyTimeLimit( 0 )
MonitoringDeviceCriticalLevel( 0 )
MonitoringDeviceResetLevel( 0 )
MonitoringDeviceAppliesFullBrake( 0 )
MonitoringDeviceAppliesEmergencyBrake( 1 )
MonitoringDeviceAppliesCutsPower( 0 )
MonitoringDeviceAppliesShutsDownEngine( 0 )
) AWSMonitor(
MonitoringDeviceMonitorTimeLimit( -1 )
MonitoringDeviceAlarmTimeLimit( 5 )
MonitoringDevicePenaltyTimeLimit( 0 )
MonitoringDeviceCriticalLevel( 0 )
MonitoringDeviceResetLevel( 0 )
MonitoringDeviceAppliesFullBrake( 0 )
MonitoringDeviceAppliesEmergencyBrake( 1 )
MonitoringDeviceAppliesCutsPower( 0 )
MonitoringDeviceAppliesShutsDownEngine( 0 )
)

EngineVariables( 3600 )

EngineControllers (
Throttle ( 0 1 0.125 0 0.
NumNotches ( 9
Notch ( 0 0 Dummy )
Notch ( 0.125 0 Dummy )
Notch ( 0.25 0 Dummy )
Notch ( 0.375 0 Dummy )
Notch ( 0.5 0 Dummy )
Notch ( 0.625 0 Dummy )
Notch ( 0.75 0 Dummy )
Notch ( 0.875 0 Dummy )
Notch ( 1 0 Dummy )
)
)
Brake_Engine ( 0 1 0.0125 0
NumNotches ( 1
Notch( 0 1 Dummy )
)
)
Brake_Train ( 0 1 0.0125 0.75
NumNotches ( 5
Notch( 0 0 TrainBrakesControllerReleaseStart )
Notch( 0.3 1 TrainBrakesControllerGraduatedSelfLapLimitedHoldingStart )
Notch( 0.85 0 TrainBrakesControllerSuppressionStart )
Notch( 0.9 0 TrainBrakesControllerContinuousServiceStart )
Notch( 0.95 0 TrainBrakesControllerEmergencyStart )
)
)
Brake_Dynamic ( 0 1 0.11 0
NumNotches ( 10
Notch ( 0 0 Dummy )
Notch ( 0.11 0 Dummy )
Notch ( 0.22 0 Dummy )
Notch ( 0.33 0 Dummy )
Notch ( 0.44 0 Dummy )
Notch ( 0.55 0 Dummy )
Notch ( 0.66 0 Dummy )
Notch ( 0.77 0 Dummy )
Notch ( 0.88 0 Dummy )
Notch ( 1 0 Dummy )
)
)
DirControl ( -1 0 1 1 )
BellToggle( 0 1 0 )
AWS ( 0 1 0 )
Sanding ( 0 1 0 )
Horn ( 0 1 0 )
Wipers ( 0 1 0 )
EmergencyStopResetToggle( 0 1 0 )
EmergencyStopToggle( 0 1 0 )
Vigilance ( 0 1 0 )
Headlights ( 0 0.25 1 0 )
BailOffButton( 0 1 0 )
)
Live long and prosperwww.cpvirtual.web.pt

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Note the inconsistancy in these 2 sections:BrakeDistributorFullServicePressure( 82 )
BrakeDistributorMaxAuxilaryResPressure( 110 )<
BrakeDistributorEmergencyResPressure( 110 )<
BrakeDistributorReleaseRate( 10 )
BrakeDistributorApplicationRate( 15 )
BrakeDistributorTrainPipeControlRatio( 2.03 )
BrakeDistributorNormalFullReleasePressure( 110 )<AirBrakesAirCompressorPowerRating( 1.2 )
AirBrakesMainMinResAirPressure( 0 )
AirBrakesMainMaxAirPressure( 90 )<
AirBrakesMainResVolume( 8 )
AirBrakesAirCompressorWattage( 1900 )
AirBrakesCompressorRestartPressure( 87 )<
AirBrakesAirUsedPerPoundsOfBrakePipePressure( 0.22 )Your AirBrakesMainMaxAirPressure( 90 ) is lower than the BrakeDistributorNormalFullReleasePressure( 110 ).Hope this helps,
Bob

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Well, now I know that I do not understand most of this.and to make things even harder... I just made one thing to the dash9. Swith from air_single_pipe to air_twin_pipe... god damn.. It doesn't go beyond 60mph... while giving all she's got....Btw those lines I have, like
BrakeDistributorNormalFullReleasePressure
I do not see any indication in the tech docs....
Live long and prosperwww.cpvirtual.web.pt

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I am not really knowledgeable about twin pipe brakes, but I think when your Full Release is 110 pounds and Max Main Pressure is 90, your brakes are not going to release all the way.
Bob

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