DCForum Discussion Forum - First Try

This is my first effort in TSM, what do you think? Is 570 too high of a poly count for a freight truck? How would I reduce it, or do you think that it will work? That isn't really a car, it's just there to have something to attach the trucks too, that's a default car behind it, and the roller bearings turn with the wheels...The wheels are 36", 125Ton Roller Bearing trucks, I haven't decided on what kind of car to make, but I'm kind of leaning towards the 30Ft Funnel Flow Tank Car...
Rob

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RE: First Try, FozzyBear, Jun-19-02, 12:02 PM, (1) RE: First Try, CSX_CW60AC_GregMarck, Jun-19-02, 01:05 PM, (2) RE: First Try, rdamurphy, Jun-19-02, 04:16 PM, (3) RE: First Try, FozzyBear, Jun-19-02, 04:33 PM, (4) RE: First Try, Xacto, Jun-19-02, 04:43 PM, (5) RE: First Try, pwillard, Jun-19-02, 06:43 PM, (6) RE: First Try, CSXfan7000, Jun-19-02, 07:01 PM, (7) RE: First Try, rdamurphy, Jun-20-02, 01:03 AM, (10) RE: First Try, wpfan, Jun-20-02, 01:18 AM, (11) RE: First Try, rdamurphy, Jun-20-02, 10:10 AM, (13) RE: First Try, Lone_Gunman_SG, Jun-19-02, 10:02 PM, (8) RE: First Try, rdamurphy, Jun-20-02, 01:00 AM, (9) RE: First Try, FozzyBear, Jun-20-02, 05:23 AM, (12)

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LAST EDITED ON Jun-19-02 AT 12:05 PM (EDT)>This is my first effort in
>TSM, what do you think?
> Is 570 too high
>of a poly count for
>a freight truck? Nope!! 570 is a very reasonable poly count for a freight truck..... (especially with TSM that generates loads more polys than are really needed to produce an object)..... You could try culling back and bottom faces... Remove any faces that can't be seen in the sim... Also you could merge any faces that are on the same plane and don't undercut each other. I know TSM doesn't have any automatic optimisation.... also forget about distance level optimisation, it doesn't improve matters because in the end it just makes the .s file a lot bigger, so it negates any benefit in frame rates you might get from having lower detail levels at a distance. Also try and avoid intersecting polygons as much as possible. I realise that's difficult in TSM because of the way it works, but intersecting polygons really give the game engine a lot of work to do.Hope that helps....Best Regards,
Julian (Fozzy The Bear)

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looks great! Greg Marck
Act. Maker
gregoryis411@hotmail.com

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>LAST EDITED ON Jun-19-02
>AT 12:05 PM (EDT)
>You could try culling back and
>bottom faces... Remove any faces
>that can't be seen in
>the sim... How do I do that?>Also you could
>merge any faces that are
>on the same plane and
>don't undercut each other.Not sure on that one either... >
>Also try and avoid intersecting polygons
>as much as possible. I
>realise that's difficult in TSM
>because of the way it
>works, but intersecting polygons really
>give the game engine a
>lot of work to do. Ummm, what are intersecting polygons?>Hope that helps.... Thanks, Helps a whole lot, appreciate your answers...Rob

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OK Rob, I'm not sure how much help I can be with this part because I don't use TSM, I did try it but it didn't suit what I needed to do. >>You could try culling back and
>>bottom faces... Remove any faces
>>that can't be seen in
>>the sim...
>
>How do I do that? Exactly how to do it in TSM.... Pass... It's just a question of selecting and deleting the faces you dont want.>>Also you could
>>merge any faces that are
>>on the same plane and
>>don't undercut each other.
>
>Not sure on that one either... Not absolutely sure if TSM can do this but check with the manual and see if anyone else on here knows how.
>>Also try and avoid intersecting polygons
>>as much as possible. I
>>realise that's difficult in TSM
>>because of the way it
>>works, but intersecting polygons really
>>give the game engine a
>>lot of work to do.
>
>Ummm, what are intersecting polygons? An Intersecting polygon, is one that passes through or into any part of another polygon... For example if you had two parts that are joined together but instead of them being properly joined as a single part they were just put together so that they overlap each other... then the polygons would be intersecting. This gives the game engine a lot of work when it comes to show it in MSTS.... Simply because it has to constantly work out which part of which faces can be seen and should be shown. That's a lot of complex math going on.... If your puter is tied up doing all that extra math then frame rates will suffer.Best Regards,
Julian (Fozzy The Bear)

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You might want to widen the truck frame itself along with the wheel treads. I modeled my trucks based on some scale drawings I found and it's surprising how far the frame of the truck extends beyond the outer faces of the wheels. Doing this will add the depth that will make the truck look more realistic.The poly count on the truck is 230, but I used some alpha channeling and it does have some intersecting faces, so the hit on frame rate might be similiar to a 500 poly truck with no intersecting faces.Good work so far, your textures look real nice.Cliff

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If you need help with doing a tank car... Snag me... I'm willing to provide whatever help I can since I've already produced a few of them. BTW, I really like Cliff's trucks... I have so far done my own from scratch and while they have a lower polycount, Cliff's look better so they will be a part of my next release.
Pete Willard

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Both of the trucks look really nice, keep up the good work!
Csx Detector, No defects, Train speed 70, Total Axle count 666, Csx Detector OUT

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Thanks, I managed to add the alpha channel so you can see through the holes, I'm just curious, why doesn't anyone add flanges to their wheels?Rob

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The reason I don't add flanges to my wheels is it's not worth the extra polys in my opinion. I would rather use the polys somewhere else on a model. In fact a lot of my wheels don't even have axles(at least on locomotives). As for the question at the start of this thread if 570 polys is too much for a freight truck, let me offer my two cents. First off I'm assuming that they are 570 polys each so for the average freight car you are looking at 1040 polys before you add anything else. I personally like to keep freight cars under 2000 polys, under 1500 is even better. After all with long strings of freight cars the number of polys can add up really quickly. One note of advice if you do a tank car for your first project is your best bet for doing the ladders is to just make a box and make it look like a ladder through the use of textures. My first tank car project, I actually modeled the ladders with individual sections of tubing, not only was it excessive polys but it was a lot of intersecting polys as well.Bringing the steam locomotive into the digital age.
www.sacramentolocomotiveworks.com

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I have all of the stuff off of your website, great work, especially the D&RGW short Covered Hopper with the see-through grating, Great suggestion BTW, that would make a lot more sense, now that I've figured out, sort of, how to get Photoshop to make alpha masks. I think Adobe forgets that people have to use their software, and they write it for themselves....Rob

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LAST EDITED ON Jun-19-02 AT 10:02 PM (EDT)You already have part of a skeleton log car....

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I was thinking about that. That and a certain Shay...Rob

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>I was thinking about that.
>That and a certain Shay... Yeah! That'd be really cool Rob.... Great start of a project idea you got there. Keep us posted on the details. I'd be interested in adding that to my loco shed.Best Regards,
Julian (Fozzy The Bear)

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