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JensChris (195 posts)
Apr-09-02, 09:49 AM (EST) "DECIDE !!! (Big Boy survey !)" LAST EDITED ON Apr-09-02 AT 09:54 AM (EST)I found out, why my Big Boy has this optical derailing...Now you can choose between :1. Optical derailing, but the cylinders connections do work properly.2. No optical derailing, but the cylinders connections won't work.Please let me know !!!
Thanks in advance !Jens-ChrisP.S.:
My vote is #2.----------
FINALLY 16 YEARS OLD , from Germany, MSTS 3D Add-on maker and repainter---- Jens-Chris ----

---- "Power for You" ----
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Table of Contents

Subject Author Message Date ID RE: DECIDE !!! (Big Boy survey !) timken Apr-09-02 1 RE: DECIDE !!! (Big Boy survey !) gxm149 Apr-09-02 2 RE: DECIDE !!! (Big Boy survey !) GTJD Apr-09-02 3 RE: DECIDE !!! (Big Boy survey !) FozzyBear Apr-09-02 4 RE: DECIDE !!! (Big Boy survey !) mikkox Apr-09-02 5 RE: DECIDE !!! (Big Boy survey !) sailor113 Apr-09-02 6 RE: DECIDE !!! (Big Boy survey !) TonyBzt Apr-09-02 7 RE: DECIDE !!! (Big Boy survey !) cjmaclean Apr-09-02 8 RE: DECIDE !!! (Big Boy survey !) Dria Apr-09-02 9 RE: DECIDE !!! (Big Boy survey !) shovelnose Apr-09-02 10 RE: DECIDE !!! (Big Boy survey !) SD80MAC Apr-09-02 11 RE: DECIDE !!! (Big Boy survey !) TrirailF40PHL Apr-09-02 12 RE: DECIDE !!! (Big Boy survey !) danoz_g700 Apr-09-02 13 RE: DECIDE !!! (Big Boy survey !) controll Apr-09-02 14 RE: DECIDE !!! (Big Boy survey !) Adam3291 Apr-09-02 15 RE: DECIDE !!! (Big Boy survey !) ace6879 Apr-09-02 16 RE: DECIDE !!! (Big Boy survey !) Thirdrail70 Apr-09-02 17 RE: DECIDE !!! (Big Boy survey !) CPFan Apr-09-02 18 RE: DECIDE !!! (Big Boy survey !) mikkox Apr-10-02 19 RE: DECIDE !!! (Big Boy survey !) JensChris Apr-10-02 20 RE: DECIDE !!! (Big Boy survey !) mikkox Apr-10-02 21 RE: DECIDE !!! (Big Boy survey !) mikkox Apr-10-02 22 RE: DECIDE !!! (Big Boy survey !) ace6879 Apr-10-02 23 RE: DECIDE !!! (Big Boy survey !) Adam3291 Apr-10-02 24 RE: DECIDE !!! (Big Boy survey !) kwk100 Apr-10-02 25

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timken (335 posts)
Apr-09-02, 10:09 AM (EST) 1. "RE: DECIDE !!! (Big Boy survey !)" I assume the optical derailing is on tight curves and it looks fine on curves the engine would have been at home on in real life. If so, stick with the piping looking correct.Steve Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
gxm149 (196 posts)
Apr-09-02, 10:09 AM (EST) 2. "RE: DECIDE !!! (Big Boy survey !)" If the optical derailment is only occuring on fairly sharp curves then I would say have it optically derail in order to allow the cylinder connections and the connecting rods to function properly. Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
GTJD (198 posts)
Apr-09-02, 10:18 AM (EST) 3. "RE: DECIDE !!! (Big Boy survey !)" ill go ahead and agree, but all i want is a Big Boy with a face to match my latest idea (in bold below)Uncle Charlie,
Hazzard & Southern Railways
Kanto-Johto System
Sodor & Magic Railroads Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
FozzyBear (927 posts)
Apr-09-02, 10:51 AM (EST) 4. "RE: DECIDE !!! (Big Boy survey !)" LAST EDITED ON Apr-09-02 AT 10:52 AM (EST)>1. Optical derailing, but the cylinders
>connections do work properly.
>
>2. No optical derailing, but the
>cylinders connections won't work.
>
>Please let me know !!!
>Thanks in advance !
Jens,
A real Big Boy won't go round many of the curves that it is forced into in MSTS. This is the entire reason for the optical derailing. Keep it as it is!! OPTION 1. It's right for the locomotive. It's designed for straight runs over long sweeping curves. Best Regards,
Julian (Fozzy The Bear)
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mikkox (198 posts)
Apr-09-02, 10:59 AM (EST) 5. "RE: DECIDE !!! (Big Boy survey !)" >1. Optical derailing, but the cylinders
>connections do work properly.
>
>2. No optical derailing, but the
>cylinders connections won't work. I would go for option 2, because it is more realistic. I believe it is possible to make the steam pipe connections so that they look ok most of the time.I had an idea while looking at a Big Boy schematic... it seems that the ends of the steam pipes supplying the front cylinders are at the pivot point of the front bogie. If you put the pipes under the front bogie in hiearchy, they might turn more realistic in tighter curves. I drew a pic to demonstrate my idea... looking from above, the front bogie is blue, front drivers red and the rear drivers green, the boiler and the cylinders black. The lower drawing show how the blue tubes might turn towards the boiler in curves. The red tubes under them show what happens if they are connected to the front unit in hiearchy. I'm not sure how it will actually look, but you should test it, if possible. Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
sailor113 (45 posts)
Apr-09-02, 11:21 AM (EST) 6. "RE: DECIDE !!! (Big Boy survey !)" I'll have to say that if mikkox is saying option 2, then maybe he's right, after all, that cab forward is looking pretty good! But as of now, I'd have to go with option 1. Whichever will make it operate as realistically as possible is fine with me (but I'd also be happy with whichever is faster! ). Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
TonyBzt (28 posts)
Apr-09-02, 11:43 AM (EST) 7. "RE: DECIDE !!! (Big Boy survey !)" I've likely the same thoughts as Julian.
We should do our orientation on the prototype and not tend to compromises which are neccessary in model railroading.
I don't think that BigBoy took the very sharp curves in industrial areas (as a shunter !).This is the reason that I will vote for option 1. Thanks
Tony
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cjmaclean (968 posts)
Apr-09-02, 12:31 PM (EST) 8. "RE: DECIDE !!! (Big Boy survey !)" OptionONE!D.M.
"Inter Arma Enim Silent Leges" Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
Dria (17 posts)
Apr-09-02, 01:18 PM (EST) 9. "RE: DECIDE !!! (Big Boy survey !)" Go for the prototype and pick #1. Even in H0 Big Boys can't run on the tightest curves.(Or do them both and let end users choose... )Andrea "Dria" Obinu
Savona, Italyhttp://dria.monrif.net Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
shovelnose (1 posts)
Apr-09-02, 02:20 PM (EST) 10. "RE: DECIDE !!! (Big Boy survey !)" If the Big Boy doesn't optically derail on normal MSTS switches and curves on routes USA1 and USA2 then option 1 should be ok.If the derailing looks bad on the supplied USA routes then go for option 2.Whichever option you choose I'm sure will be ok, after all you could always put out a later version if you come up with a better solution. Keep up the excellent work, I'm also looking forward to your upgraded turbines with see through cabs and detailed grab-rails. The Big Blow is one of my favourite locos on MSTS. Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
SD80MAC (896 posts)
Apr-09-02, 04:13 PM (EST) 11. "RE: DECIDE !!! (Big Boy survey !)" I'd go with choice#1 Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
TrirailF40PHL (550 posts)
Apr-09-02, 05:34 PM (EST) 12. "RE: DECIDE !!! (Big Boy survey !)" Choice 1! (If you REALLY want to, why don't you include the files for option two?)Kurt Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
danoz_g700 (51 posts)
Apr-09-02, 05:54 PM (EST) 13. "RE: DECIDE !!! (Big Boy survey !)" I'll go with choice #1 and only one more realistic to me anyway
Thanks DANIELRIOGRANDE IS THE BEST Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
controll (566 posts)
Apr-09-02, 06:21 PM (EST) 14. "RE: DECIDE !!! (Big Boy survey !)" HAPPY BELATED BIRTHDAY !!!!!Thanks for the unit when it's finished.....Rick Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
Adam3291 (175 posts)
Apr-09-02, 06:30 PM (EST) 15. "RE: DECIDE !!! (Big Boy survey !)" I will take whats behind door number TWO! I would rather it stay on the track. Thanks, Adam Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
ace6879 (803 posts)
Apr-09-02, 07:18 PM (EST) 16. "RE: DECIDE !!! (Big Boy survey !)" I'll go with #1 Kelley



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Thirdrail70 (103 posts)
Apr-09-02, 07:53 PM (EST) 17. "RE: DECIDE !!! (Big Boy survey !)" I'll vote for option #1 also. The Big Boy was not made for the usual curves that other engines can handle. Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
CPFan (15 posts)
Apr-09-02, 10:05 PM (EST) 18. "RE: DECIDE !!! (Big Boy survey !)" There is only one option and that's number one! ;) Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
mikkox (198 posts)
Apr-10-02, 10:37 AM (EST) 19. "RE: DECIDE !!! (Big Boy survey !)" There seems to be a lot of support for option number one. Are you people sure you understood correctly what Jens-Chris meant?I understood that in option 1 the front unit is fixed, so it isn't an articulated anymore. Or the pivot point is set closer to the steam pipes to keep them connected, but the front unit turns unrealistically in all curves! Or doesn't turn at all!And the option number 2 would be that the pivot point of the front unit is set where it should be, around where the rear cylinders are, as all american articulateds have, to my understanding. That way the wheels stay on the tracks on most curves, but the steam pipes don't look good on tighter curves.If the Big Boy is used only on curves on that it run in real life, the steam pipes shouldn't move away too much. Or maybe they do, but I still think it's more realistic to have the pivot point where it should be, or at least a compromise between the two.Jens-Chris, could you post some screenshots of the both options, how bad or good they look when going thru curves? It's hard to make important decisions without good sources. Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
JensChris (195 posts)
Apr-10-02, 12:09 PM (EST) 20. "RE: DECIDE !!! (Big Boy survey !)" To make it clear :The front unit is always turning around
the middlest point of it...
Not like the articulation of US steamers...
You can't make it like US, because of the way MSTS handles it. Sorry !What I mean is :
The optical derailing happens on the 2nd part.
The cylinder connections don't work properly in both decisions, but in #1 it looks better than in #2.
Again this is , because of the way MSTS handles it. Sorry !I'll post pics of them ASAP, but I have to prepare for school.
Exams on Friday !!Jens-Chris----------
16 years old, from Germany, MSTS 3D Add-on maker and repainter---- Jens-Chris ----

---- "Power for You" ----
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mikkox (198 posts)
Apr-10-02, 01:39 PM (EST) 21. "RE: DECIDE !!! (Big Boy survey !)" >You can't make it like US,
>because of the way MSTS
>handles it. Sorry ! Actually you can, but it would require making the front bogie a separate wagon that is always pushed in front of the two units. Like I have done it on the Cab Forwards but reversed, obviously.But yeah, if you do it with only two units, then it's impossible to have the front unit pivot point at the right position... the furthest back is around the third driving axle of the front unit.I guess it's a good compromise, without making things too complicated. But if you really want to make an ultra-realistic Big Boy, it is possible by using the front bogie wagon and maybe connecting the steam tubes to turn with it.I'll post a pic of my Cab Forward that shows the bounding boxes (with Ctrl-+) if you wanna try that technique. Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
mikkox (198 posts)
Apr-10-02, 02:07 PM (EST) 22. "RE: DECIDE !!! (Big Boy survey !)" Here are the pics. As you can see, behind the two units is a bounding box for the trailing bogie. It allows to move the pivot point towards the right point for american articulateds, by covering the rest of the way left by the too short rear unit. All this of because stupid MSTS ruling that has the pivot point exactly between the couplers. Here's another pic from a extreme curve. Too much for even my method. The trailing bogie though stays on the track. On normal curves and switches, such as on Marias Pass, all wheels stay on the tracks very accurately. And here's a pic of the Big Boy schematic, I drew the white boxes to show how you could set the bounding boxes (and lenghts).
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ace6879 (803 posts)
Apr-10-02, 02:08 PM (EST) 23. "RE: DECIDE !!! (Big Boy survey !)" Hi Jens-Chris, Did you receive my mail? I sent it to yor father's address. Hope you had a wonderful birthday!!! Good luck on the exams!!!
Kelley



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Adam3291 (175 posts)
Apr-10-02, 03:44 PM (EST) 24. "RE: DECIDE !!! (Big Boy survey !)" Mikkox you got mail!!!!!! Thanks, Adam Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
kwk100 (313 posts)
Apr-10-02, 07:07 PM (EST) 25. "RE: DECIDE !!! (Big Boy survey !)" I would go with Choice #1.I have an idea about fixing the derailment. Make the bogie that is derailing, and the front most set of wheels one bogie, instead of two. Although the front most wheels wont pivot, they may derail, but the derailment will be less noticable.Diesel Industries
Trains from http://tgs.railfan.net/kwk100 Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

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