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darkfyre (110 posts)
Feb-25-02, 11:58 PM (EST) "Electric Hybrid" Courtesy of Rail Power Technologies..Looks like it'll be at home among all the other diesels/electric locos in MSTS ;) (this'll probably be my last request for a while )

Hauling cars is fun; but crashing them is even better.-Darkfyre Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
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Subject Author Message Date ID RE: Electric Hybrid cjmaclean Feb-26-02 1 RE: Electric Hybrid chucksc Feb-26-02 2 RE: Electric Hybrid cjmaclean Feb-26-02 3 RE: Electric Hybrid chucksc Feb-26-02 4 RE: Electric Hybrid darkfyre Feb-26-02 5 RE: Electric Hybrid darkfyre Feb-26-02 6 RE: Electric Hybrid chucksc Feb-26-02 7 RE: Electric Hybrid rcp27 Feb-27-02 8 RE: Electric Hybrid cjmaclean Feb-27-02 9 RE: Electric Hybrid Kuchinator Feb-27-02 10 RE: Electric Hybrid chucksc Feb-27-02 11 RE: Electric Hybrid cjmaclean Feb-27-02 12 RE: Electric Hybrid MJL Feb-27-02 13 RE: Electric Hybrid chucksc Feb-27-02 14 RE: Electric Hybrid Macster Feb-27-02 15 RE: Electric Hybrid chucksc Feb-27-02 16 RE: Electric Hybrid chucksc Feb-27-02 17

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cjmaclean (870 posts)
Feb-26-02, 03:16 AM (EST) 1. "RE: Electric Hybrid" Huh? How is that loco powered? The hood seems a bit low to contain a diesel, and there's no pantograph either...maybe batteries or fuel cells?D.M.
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chucksc (1089 posts)
Feb-26-02, 08:50 AM (EST) 2. "RE: Electric Hybrid" IIRC the "Green Goat" takes advantage of the apparent fact that switchers seem to spend a lot of time just standing around. What it has is a lot of batteries and a dinky engine to charge them... When it is pushing or pulling it uses current from the batteries for a short time (30 mins or less) surge in power and then goes back to charging them while waiting for the next job....------Chuck Schneider---------

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cjmaclean (870 posts)
Feb-26-02, 11:11 AM (EST) 3. "RE: Electric Hybrid" @ Chuck:Hmmm...how could one simulate these characteristics with TS's means? I could imagine the following: Make this loco a "diesel" to the game, but equip it either with sounds from an electric engine, or do it like on the sound pack for Jens-Chris Baerenz's turbine locos, i.e. give it low-rev constant-speed diesel sounds (which would however need to be less "beefy" than those of a Geep or Dash), both inside and outside. Furthermore set it up so that the "fuel capacity" is so low that you could operate it only for about 30 minutes of playing time until you "run out of fuel", so to say.What do you think...?D.M."Inter Arma Enim Silent Leges" Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
chucksc (1089 posts)
Feb-26-02, 06:44 PM (EST) 4. "RE: Electric Hybrid" Very Interesting Idea.... It would add some incentive to finish your switching chores on time, or walk home! LOL!
Maybe some one will do it.... Why don't you give it a shot?
We'll support you if we can....------Chuck Schneider---------

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darkfyre (110 posts)
Feb-26-02, 09:13 PM (EST) 5. "RE: Electric Hybrid" LAST EDITED ON Feb-26-02 AT 09:16 PM (EST)Hmm.. how's about this for the ENG file?
------------------------------
Weight: 13.5t
Max Power: 373kW
Top Speed= 60
Fuel Capacity= 300 gallons; 30 gallons per minute at full throttle; 10 gallons per minute at idle
MaxForce: 250kN
MaxContinuousForce: 230kN
------------------------------Don't know much about what that would do; sounds about right to me though...
..As for the soundfiles, how bout the SD40; but a little quieter?

Hauling cars is fun; but crashing them is even better.-Darkfyre Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
darkfyre (110 posts)
Feb-26-02, 09:21 PM (EST) 6. "RE: Electric Hybrid" Err, nevermind; thought for one second that the 'hybrid' was like those hybrid gas/electric concept cars, instead of a whole bunch of batteries being recharged by a small motor..
Hauling cars is fun; but crashing them is even better.-Darkfyre Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
chucksc (1089 posts)
Feb-26-02, 10:42 PM (EST) 7. "RE: Electric Hybrid" No you're getting close though! Here is what happens...IDLEING Donkey Diesel charges battery - no traction
RUN 1 or 2 Donkey Diesel powers loco - no charging
RUN 3 and UP Donkey Diesel powers loco - batteries discharge to traction motors to augment current flow and increase hp to full 1500hp ( I think the donkey might be something like 200 or so HP)------Chuck Schneider---------

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rcp27 (31 posts)
Feb-27-02, 06:47 AM (EST) 8. "RE: Electric Hybrid" What you'd really want in the eng file is a low fuel capacity, a high fuel consumption at full power and a negative fuel consumption at idle, so that the fuel tank slowly fills up again. I suspect this isn't possible within the confines of MSTS, thoughRobin Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
cjmaclean (870 posts)
Feb-27-02, 07:12 AM (EST) 9. "RE: Electric Hybrid" Interesting idea with the "negative" fuel consumption...assuming that TS would accept it, it would have to be a rather smallish value, though, because I'm sure those batteries do need some time for recharging. Kind of reminds me of an U-boat (no, not the wheeled ones from GE *LOL*) somehow!
I'm afraid I have no resources to do any loco modeling, else I sure would like to give it a try ...but I hope somebody who has the skills will feel inspired by this post!D.M.
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Kuchinator (673 posts)
Feb-27-02, 07:41 AM (EST) 10. "RE: Electric Hybrid" that seems like an extremely expensive deal just due to all the down time for recharging when it could be being used.
-Christopher-

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chucksc (1089 posts)
Feb-27-02, 08:04 AM (EST) 11. "RE: Electric Hybrid" Christopher
The deal is that many studies show switcher and especially yard switcher, which is what this is, spend over 75% of their time idling... Also the reduced emission pay for the batteries in some localities....------Chuck Schneider---------

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cjmaclean (870 posts)
Feb-27-02, 11:07 AM (EST) 12. "RE: Electric Hybrid" I don't know how it was in the U.S., but here in Germany they once built purely battery-powered switchers based on the Köf design (see file library). AFAIK they completely removed the diesel engine and gearbox (it was originally a diesel-mechanic design) and put in electric motors plus a bunch of batteries. Then there were also battery-powered commuter railcars (class 515, I think). IIRC, all these designs had to go back to a charging station, though, because they did not have an engine/generator set like the Green Goat.D.M.
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MJL (194 posts)
Feb-27-02, 02:09 PM (EST) 13. "RE: Electric Hybrid" As I recall reading it has a 100Horse Power turbine engine that operates constently (they were also thinking of doing a smaller "Green Kid" 50Hp version)..... most-all engines are much "Happier" when they are at a constant speed, not going from notch 8 to 5 to 1 to 8 and so on.....with the constant engine speed, it results in higher fuel efficency, less maintance, less emissions, so overall less $$$$$,
but w/ the constant velocity engine, you need a resovore (Lots o' batteries) to store the extra energy that the engine makes during the low times, and so you can cover your peaks when its in Notch8.......hope it works out for them.....or will it join the ranks of other RR has-beens?
Matt
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chucksc (1089 posts)
Feb-27-02, 02:13 PM (EST) 14. "RE: Electric Hybrid" Aha so the "dinky" is a turbine? I wondered because all I ever heard it referred to as a "dinky"! LOL Makes sense from a design viewpoint as it will use much less space and weight than a diesel of equivelent HP... and it is small enough that the constant speed won't be anywhere as big a problem as it was on the UP Road Turbines.....------Chuck Schneider---------

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Macster (422 posts)
Feb-27-02, 02:50 PM (EST) 15. "RE: Electric Hybrid" LAST EDITED ON Feb-27-02 AT 02:51 PM (EST)The Green Goat has been leased by the Union Pacific for one year (wow what a suprise there) and is currently heading to Roseville, California. If you couldn't see the trace reporting marks is they are RPRX 2001. I saw this locomotive second in consist about a week ago on the ISEBA (Intermodal Seattle, Washington - Barnes Yard, Oregon)Look on Trainorders.com for more infomation under Macster.Brian E. Bundridge
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chucksc (1089 posts)
Feb-27-02, 03:26 PM (EST) 16. "RE: Electric Hybrid" From http://www.railpower.com/files/greengoat.html
..............................................................
The Green GoatTM is a hybrid switcher. That means the electric traction motors on the axles are powered by a large bank of custom-designed lead acid batteries. The batteries are kept charged by a small generator driven by a diesel fueled prime mover.
Initial indications show the patented Green Goat design compared to the standard diesel switchers of today, will be cheaper to purchase, cheaper to run, cheaper to maintain, and produce considerably less pollutants.
.............................................................Maybe that's why I had the idea its Diesel.... I forgot MicroTurbines can run on diesel also....------Chuck Schneider---------

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chucksc (1089 posts)
Feb-27-02, 03:32 PM (EST) 17. "RE: Electric Hybrid" And then again maybe I was right the first time!
again quoted from http://www.railpower.com/files/greengoat.html
......................................................
The Green Goat will have a over all capital cost savings of around 30%, and about 90% reduction in smog causing NOnitrous oxides), and a similar reduction in cancer linked particulate matter.While the diesel only runs as required to keep the batteries to the desired state of charge, power is always available without delay from the batteries. Since the load of the diesel/generator doesn't vary -- it's always charging the same batteries -- during the periods when it is running, it runs at a constant speed, and thus can be tuned to be very efficient. The result, compared to a conventional diesel-electric switcher, is a much quieter and more efficient locomotive that produces much less pollution.The Green Goat's appearance also sets it apart. The locomotive is built on a conventional GP9 frame. Not only has the short hood been chopped, but the long hood as well, giving excellent visibility in all directions. The batteries take up the majority of the space under the long hood, with a small space left over for the prime mover and generator. Since the batteries are heavy, they provide the weight needed to give the locomotive good traction. The Green Goat looks somewhat like a slug or booster unit with a control cab; in fact it's a completely functional 2000 HP switching locomotive.and this is from the Specs page at
http://www.railpower.com/2support/Green%20Goat%20Spec%20Sheet%2001-02-26.doc
................................................................
The Green Goat is an electric hybrid switcher that makes use of a microturbine engine and energy storage to allow it to offer a 15% to 45% reduction in fuel savings during yard switching operations while at the same time being quieter and producing 80% to 90% less NOx. Power produced by the low maintenance microturbine is stored in the batteries making the Green Goat able to respond instantly to the commands of the operator. Also of benefit to the operator is its low long hood offering great visibility through heated glass from a cab that offers air conditioning and heating and an engine that makes very little noise.
.........................................................
Sure wish they'd make up their minds! LOL!
------Chuck Schneider---------

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