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FozzyBear (556 posts)
Feb-15-02, 08:06 AM (EST) "K36 Gets First In Game Run! D&RGW Here We Come!!" LAST EDITED ON Feb-15-02 AT 08:23 AM (EST)OK Here's the first in game shot... not a brilliant one but I was testing how the game reacted to it so I did this grab. No significant frame rate drops so far! Lots more work still to do, Progress has been a bit slower this week as, thanks to more technical references, lots of parts have been replaced or improved. New bioler, more fittings... front end corrected... lots of detail work and lots of poly crunching so that the compressor coolers could go in as 3D. Still have the valve gear to do and the rear wheel set isn't revolving at the moment. That's an easy fix though. Anyway! Here you go all comments welcome!!Best Regards,
Julian (Fozzy The Bear)
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Table of Contents

Subject Author Message Date ID RE: K36 Gets First In Game Run! D&R... FozzyBear Feb-15-02 1 RE: K36 Gets First In Game Run! D&R... cjmaclean Feb-15-02 2 RE: K36 Gets First In Game Run! D&R... FozzyBear Feb-15-02 3 RE: K36 Gets First In Game Run! D&R... Starlight Feb-15-02 6 RE: K36 Gets First In Game Run! D&R... FozzyBear Feb-15-02 7 RE: K36 Gets First In Game Run! D&R... Starlight Feb-15-02 10 RE: K36 Gets First In Game Run! D&R... FozzyBear Feb-15-02 13 RE: K36 Gets First In Game Run! D&R... tvrail Feb-16-02 28 RE: K36 Gets First In Game Run! D&R... johnf Feb-15-02 4 RE: K36 Gets First In Game Run! D&R... FozzyBear Feb-15-02 5 RE: K36 Gets First In Game Run! D&R... nw_fan Feb-15-02 8 RE: K36 Gets First In Game Run! D&R... FozzyBear Feb-15-02 9 RE: K36 Gets First In Game Run! D&R... sailor113 Feb-15-02 11 RE: K36 Gets First In Game Run! D&R... FozzyBear Feb-15-02 12 RE: K36 Gets First In Game Run! D&R... nw_fan Feb-15-02 14 RE: K36 Gets First In Game Run! D&R... camaro540 Feb-15-02 15 RE: K36 Gets First In Game Run! D&R... FozzyBear Feb-15-02 16 RE: K36 Gets First In Game Run! D&R... camaro540 Feb-15-02 17 RE: K36 Gets First In Game Run! D&R... Adam3291 Feb-15-02 18 RE: K36 Gets First In Game Run! D&R... riograndedude Feb-15-02 19 RE: K36 Gets First In Game Run! D&R... Adam3291 Feb-15-02 20 RE: K36 Gets First In Game Run! D&R... FozzyBear Feb-16-02 22 RE: K36 Gets First In Game Run! D&R... FozzyBear Feb-16-02 21 RE: K36 Gets First In Game Run! D&R... Adam3291 Feb-16-02 23 RE: K36 Gets First In Game Run! D&R... NickF Feb-16-02 24 RE: K36 Gets First In Game Run! D&R... FozzyBear Feb-16-02 26 RE: K36 Gets First In Game Run! D&R... GrizzlyBear Feb-16-02 25 RE: K36 Gets First In Game Run! D&R... FozzyBear Feb-16-02 27 RE: K36 Gets First In Game Run! D&R... riograndedude Feb-16-02 29 RE: K36 Gets First In Game Run! D&R... JuanFu Feb-16-02 30 RE: K36 Gets First In Game Run! D&R... FozzyBear Feb-17-02 31 RE: K36 Gets First In Game Run! D&R... Hack Feb-17-02 32 RE: K36 Gets First In Game Run! D&R... FozzyBear Feb-17-02 33 RE: K36 Gets First In Game Run! D&R... Hack Feb-17-02 34

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FozzyBear (556 posts)
Feb-15-02, 09:21 AM (EST) 1. "RE: K36 Gets First In Game Run! D&RGW Here We Come!!" OOOps spellcheck you stupid Bear... Boiler not Bioler ROFL Best Regards,
Julian (Fozzy The Bear)
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cjmaclean (848 posts)
Feb-15-02, 09:25 AM (EST) 2. "RE: K36 Gets First In Game Run! D&RGW Here We Come!!" Cool! That's a narrow-gauge engine, right? In case somebody comes forward with a D&RGW route using narrow-gauge trackage, would you consider reworking your model to fit these tracks optically? D.M."Inter Arma Enim Silent Leges" Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
FozzyBear (556 posts)
Feb-15-02, 09:33 AM (EST) 3. "RE: K36 Gets First In Game Run! D&RGW Here We Come!!" >Cool! That's a narrow-gauge engine, right?
>In case somebody comes forward
>with a D&RGW route using
>narrow-gauge trackage, would you consider
>reworking your model to fit
>these tracks optically?
Yup! It's already in hand! Grizzly Bear is working on a 3'Gauge Durango route using the X-Tracks add on. I've got two separate wheel sets that can be swapped out. To be honest that's all I've had to do to make it fit on standard gauge track, These loco's are so wide that there's enough room between the frames to get a standard gauge wheel set. I guess that Baldwin knew what they were doing when they designed them. It means that they could supply exactly the same locomotive for different gauges. Although nobody else ordered them for standard gauge they could have done.Best Regards,
Julian (Fozzy The Bear)
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Starlight (177 posts)
Feb-15-02, 09:58 AM (EST) 6. "RE: K36 Gets First In Game Run! D&RGW Here We Come!!" hey foz, isn't that one of the conversion engines? I remember reading in an old Railroad Model Craftsman, that DRG and DRGS converted some old standard guage locos to narrow guage use...think maybe that's one? Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
FozzyBear (556 posts)
Feb-15-02, 10:02 AM (EST) 7. "RE: K36 Gets First In Game Run! D&RGW Here We Come!!" >hey foz, isn't that one of
>the conversion engines? I
>remember reading in an old
>Railroad Model Craftsman, that DRG
>and DRGS converted some old
>standard guage locos to narrow
>guage use...think maybe that's one? Sort of!! The K-36 was built as narrow gauge... but the similar K37 was a rebuild from standard gauge. The K37 was in fact a bigger locomotive... It's next on the list! research material for that is on the way now!Best Regards,
Julian (Fozzy The Bear) Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
Starlight (177 posts)
Feb-15-02, 11:59 AM (EST) 10. "RE: K36 Gets First In Game Run! D&RGW Here We Come!!" yeah, that's right...the conversion was done by moving the wheels inside the frame if I remember correctly. the counter weights were placed on the outside, giving a distinctive profile.
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FozzyBear (556 posts)
Feb-15-02, 12:48 PM (EST) 13. "RE: K36 Gets First In Game Run! D&RGW Here We Come!!" LAST EDITED ON Feb-15-02 AT 12:49 PM (EST)>yeah, that's right...the conversion was done
>by moving the wheels inside
>the frame if I remember
>correctly. the counter weights
>were placed on the outside,
>giving a distinctive profile. Very much so and a lot more was done at the same time... The only thing that remained from the original loco was the main frame and the boiler. The boiler height was dropped the rear frame was widened to accomodate the firebox, the cylinders were replaced (the originals were slide valve and the replacements were piston valve) a new saddle casting, complete replacement of the original Joy valve gear (Originally between the frames) with Walshearts outside the frames. More or less, a complete new loco.Best Regards,
Julian (Fozzy The Bear)
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tvrail (4 posts)
Feb-16-02, 12:38 PM (EST) 28. "RE: K36 Gets First In Game Run! D&RGW Here We Come!!" Yup a neat loco indeed! Can't wait for get that on my tracks. I just hope you release the painting templates, too.And another pointer: a number of locomotive factories around the world indeed built up locomotives that had an interchangeable gauge. For example the Finnish factory Valmet Ltd. built several Move-21 and Move-35 diesel engines that could be fitted for almost any gauge between 24 inches to 5 foot. In fact these locomotives were in use on both 5-foot gauge national rail network as shunters and on many 24" to 30" inch narrow gauge railroads as main line power.I do consider that Baldwin made this interchangeable gauge for a couple of good reasons: one was naturally the high number of different gauges use in the USA. This way the engines could be sold on and off without worrying the issue of gauge compatibility.Teme Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
johnf (320 posts)
Feb-15-02, 09:39 AM (EST) 4. "RE: K36 Gets First In Game Run! D&RGW Here We Come!!" Julian, thats one fine looking loco you've got there. you could save a few polys in the cab by making the windows with alpha. And the springs, if you use the outline shape for the horizontal faces and rectangles for the vertical faces you can save polys there too. but if your poly budget is working out ok then what do I know. Just what is your poly count? my 0-8-0 that I'm working on (with lots of 3d pipes) is 5300. One other way to get some polys back is the square wheel trick. If you need any help at all you can count on me.john Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
FozzyBear (556 posts)
Feb-15-02, 09:47 AM (EST) 5. "RE: K36 Gets First In Game Run! D&RGW Here We Come!!" >(with
>lots of 3d pipes) is
>5300. One other way to
>get some polys back is
>the square wheel trick.
>
>If you need any help at
>all you can count on
>me. Thanks John!
I'm going for the best result I can manage... Your new loco is a very fine machine. Poly count at the moment on this is just over the 4000 mark, I'm not going to fret about it till it hits the 6000 mark that's my top budget limit on it I think. Been doing a lot of hiden face culling this week, and removed a lot of points and lines that were doing nothing useful.I'll see how it runs in game, if it dents frame rates then I'll start cutting back on the polys, and I'll certainly consider any sugestion you might have. Always good to have someone with more experience as a guide. Thanks for the offer of help! I'll add your name to the Beta Test list, soon as I have the model and tender in one piece I'll drop the first beta out for comment.Best Regards,
Julian (Fozzy The Bear)
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nw_fan (255 posts)
Feb-15-02, 11:36 AM (EST) 8. "RE: K36 Gets First In Game Run! D&RGW Here We Come!!" LAST EDITED ON Feb-15-02 AT 11:37 AM (EST)I think we need to consider the future when making these locos. The square wheel trick is OK, but there are some things like windows and the piping that just don't measure up when not modeled. Looking further forward, I think we might see fully modeled wheels start popping up as things progress. Maybe fully detailed air pumps, fully modeled cab interiors, etc...I know that we go around and round about Microsoft, but I believe that the popularity of this program would be hard for them to miss. Maybe, just maybe, we'll start to see progress like FlightSim...I am currently having this discussion (many of above points are his) with someone working on a very large engine that is not the Big Boy. He is at 10000 polys. We have both come to the conclusion that in a year most of us will be running TrainSim on 2GHz chips with at least 64MB GeForce type cards and around 1GB of memory. So look toward the future and maybe encourage people to start upgrading their system to take full advantage of the Sim. I know it has caused me to upgrade and I'm very glad I did. I'm already thinking about more memory. Just food for thought....I know we are not at that point yet.Fozzy, I think you are on the right track (I'm getting sick of the pun, but it's hard to avoid) It is looking good. And don't lose too much sleep over poly's. Also consider whether this loco was doubleheaded often or not. Think of the 3-4 unit diesel consists everybody runs. How many polys there do you think?Mike
Norfolk & Western
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FozzyBear (556 posts)
Feb-15-02, 11:54 AM (EST) 9. "RE: K36 Gets First In Game Run! D&RGW Here We Come!!" The square wheel
>trick is OK, but there
>are some things like windows
>and the piping that just
>don't measure up when not
>modeled. Absolutely! I was reasonably determined from the outset to model items rather than use transparency tricks.>Looking further forward,
>I think we might see
>fully modeled wheels start popping
>up as things progress.

We might at that! LOL keep your eyes open when this gets released.>Maybe fully detailed air pumps,
>fully modeled cab interiors, etc... How abut fully detailed and working!! air pumps!!! You haven't seen the other side of this loco yet! LOLsomeone working on
>a very large engine that
>is not the Big Boy.
> He is at 10000
>polys. We have both
>come to the conclusion that
>in a year most of
>us will be running TrainSim
>on 2GHz chips 15,000 polys is not imposible! It's a question of not having intersecting ones. That's what really slows the graphics engine down. Or so my experiments would suggest.>Fozzy, I think you are on
>the right track (I'm getting
>sick of the pun, but
>it's hard to avoid) It
>is looking good. Thanks! I hope so... I'm doing my best to make this model as good as it can be, and all the help and advise I've had from people on here is very much appreciated.>And don't
>lose too much sleep over
>poly's. Also consider whether
>this loco was doubleheaded often
>or not. Think of
>the 3-4 unit diesel consists
>everybody runs. How many
>polys there do you think? Well that was my oppinion too... Lots of people run 50 or 60 Wagons without even thinking about it! I'll do my best... BTW I'm already running more than a 2Ghz Processor on my main machine... But I will test it on a few of the slower ones as well!
Best Regards,
Julian (Fozzy The Bear) Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
sailor113 (21 posts)
Feb-15-02, 12:09 PM (EST) 11. "RE: K36 Gets First In Game Run! D&RGW Here We Come!!" I ran a 100 car consist with 4 DD40's the other day, it slowed the frame rate a little, but it wasn't bad. I'm running a 1.2Ghz athalon (that's about 1.5 pentium) and a 32meg accellerated graphics card. I also ran a 50 car consist with doubleheaded 4-8-4's (Cotton Belt #819), and got up Maria's no prob! Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
FozzyBear (556 posts)
Feb-15-02, 12:37 PM (EST) 12. "RE: K36 Gets First In Game Run! D&RGW Here We Come!!" >I ran a 100 car consist
>with 4 DD40's the other
>day, it slowed the frame
>rate a little, but it
>wasn't bad.
I Think you're both right about this! The poly count isn't the desciding factor in frame rate performance. It's how those polys are assembled in the model that makes the big difference. Lots of intersecting polys and the graphics engine has to work twice as hard to figure out which parts of which faces it should be showing us. I will keep experimenting as I build but I'm not too worried about the projected 6000 polys! That's not to say that i won't optimise components! I always do, to the very n'th degree.... but I'm more interested in the quality of the finished model than I am worried about the final poly count.Best Regards,
Julian (Fozzy The Bear)
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nw_fan (255 posts)
Feb-15-02, 12:50 PM (EST) 14. "RE: K36 Gets First In Game Run! D&RGW Here We Come!!" My thoughts exactly!Now get back to work. I can't wait to run it! Mike
Norfolk & Western
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camaro540 (233 posts)
Feb-15-02, 02:31 PM (EST) 15. "RE: K36 Gets First In Game Run! D&RGW Here We Come!!" JulianI was wondering if you would scale a version up so the track
will = 3' scale? I've been working on some narrow gauge stuff,
but it's all scaled up to match the track we have for this.Thanks
Patrick Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
FozzyBear (556 posts)
Feb-15-02, 03:43 PM (EST) 16. "RE: K36 Gets First In Game Run! D&RGW Here We Come!!" >Julian
>
>I was wondering if you would
>scale a version up so
>the track
>will = 3' scale? I've been
>working on some narrow gauge
>stuff,
>but it's all scaled up to
>match the track we have
>for this. Hi Patrick,
I debated this point with several people, you'll find posts about it on here. The consensus of oppinion was that it should be built to 1:1 ratio. Which it is. I have alternate wheel sets for narrow gauge track, and Grizzly Bear is building a narrow gauge route with the X-Tracks add on. So sorry but I won't be releasing anything which is not at absolute scale.That was a decision made right at the start of this project. It makes little sense, to me at least, to build it over scale. simply because you then have to over scale everything, buildings platforms rolling stock..... etc etcAs narrow gauge track is already available it makes much more sense to lay that track and run on it. There will be two versions in the release. One for standard gauge track and one for narrow gauge track. It's then up to you which one you want to use.So sorry but no I'll only release a 1:1 model.Best Regards,
Julian (Fozzy The Bear) Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
camaro540 (233 posts)
Feb-15-02, 05:33 PM (EST) 17. "RE: K36 Gets First In Game Run! D&RGW Here We Come!!" JulianExcellent! I thought it was only going to be built at the
4' gauge, so sorry, my fault. I have been told that there
is narrow gauge track in the sim, but I'll be ##@! if I
can find it.Anyways, thanksPatrick Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
Adam3291 (68 posts)
Feb-15-02, 08:00 PM (EST) 18. "RE: K36 Gets First In Game Run! D&RGW Here We Come!!" Sweet. Fozzy, your the bomb. Sorry I didn't say any thing later but I was visiting my Grandma at the hospital. She had to have a hip replacement on her hip replacement. But she is doing well. I'm trying to get those drawing to you but I got to break up the file into a smaller pieces. But you will get them. Thanks, ADAM Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
riograndedude (193 posts)
Feb-15-02, 09:03 PM (EST) 19. "RE: K36 Gets First In Game Run! D&RGW Here We Come!!" Hey FozzyBear, It's William, The Rio Grande Dude. Can you put me down for beta testing. I am a total expert on the Exterior of these locomotives. There's just one thing Microcrap could have changed with Steamers, It's not a "Reverser" in American, It's "Johnson Bar!" at least in D&SNGRR Terms

Behold The POWER of Black and Gold: THE RIO GRANDE RAILROAD Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
Adam3291 (68 posts)
Feb-15-02, 09:08 PM (EST) 20. "RE: K36 Gets First In Game Run! D&RGW Here We Come!!" Fozzy, Put me done for beta-testing too. I'm not sure if you know but I'm going to doing some beta-testing for Jens-Chris in the next couple of days so put me done too. My E-mail is stparsons@lexcominc.net Thanks, ADAM14 year old Official BIGBOY Beta-Tester Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
FozzyBear (556 posts)
Feb-16-02, 01:06 AM (EST) 22. "RE: K36 Gets First In Game Run! D&RGW Here We Come!!" >Fozzy, Put me done for beta-testing
>too. OK Adam. I'll add your name to the list as you're one person who's shown very significant interest in the models and been at least interested in the finished results.I guess we might have a first beta for shape examination in about a weeks time... but no promises on that one! OKBest Regards,
Julian (Fozzy The Bear) Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
FozzyBear (556 posts)
Feb-16-02, 01:02 AM (EST) 21. "RE: K36 Gets First In Game Run! D&RGW Here We Come!!" >Hey FozzyBear, It's William, The Rio
>Grande Dude. Can you
>put me down for beta
>testing. I am a
>total expert on the Exterior
>of these locomotives. There's
>just one thing Microcrap could
>have changed with Steamers,
>It's not a "Reverser" in
>American, It's "Johnson Bar!" at
>least in D&SNGRR Terms Well yes indeed!! on both counts it is indeed a Johnson Bar, and as you are the resident expert on the D&RGW and all of it's routes I'll be happy for you to be on the beta test list.As soon as I have the model in a fit state I'll drop a copy out to all of the Beta Testers.Best Regards,
Julian (Fozzy The Bear) Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
Adam3291 (68 posts)
Feb-16-02, 08:28 AM (EST) 23. "RE: K36 Gets First In Game Run! D&RGW Here We Come!!" Any Time. Any Time. I'll be waiting. Did you get those drawings of the 2-8-4 Nickel Plate Road Loco I sent you. Thanks, ADAM Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
NickF (748 posts)
Feb-16-02, 11:23 AM (EST) 24. "RE: K36 Gets First In Game Run! D&RGW Here We Come!!" Julian,In an hour or two I'm taking the kid and heading out to the Museum to see if I can get some K-36 and K-37 shop drawings. I'll let you know what I get.Nick Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
FozzyBear (556 posts)
Feb-16-02, 11:55 AM (EST) 26. "RE: K36 Gets First In Game Run! D&RGW Here We Come!!" >In an hour or two I'm
>taking the kid and heading
>out to the Museum to
>see if I can get
>some K-36 and K-37 shop
>drawings. I'll let you know
>what I get. Cheers!! Thanks again Nick that'll be a big help!!Best Regards,
Julian (Fozzy The Bear)
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GrizzlyBear (313 posts)
Feb-16-02, 11:32 AM (EST) 25. "RE: K36 Gets First In Game Run! D&RGW Here We Come!!" Fozzy
You've got mail. I sent you a set of pics from Durango and Chama you might find useful. Good clear views of the spark arrestors and tenders.Grizzly
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FozzyBear (556 posts)
Feb-16-02, 11:59 AM (EST) 27. "RE: K36 Gets First In Game Run! D&RGW Here We Come!!" >You've got mail. I sent you
>a set of pics from
>Durango and Chama you might
>find useful. Good clear views
>of the spark arrestors and
>tenders. Thanks Grizzly, Got the pictures, Thnks for those, The Bear Trap is very clear on that side view... I think I'll be including that and several other options as an add on to the main model. I'll keep you posted on that.Thanks Again,Best Regards,
Julian (Fozzy The Bear) Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
riograndedude (193 posts)
Feb-16-02, 03:27 PM (EST) 29. "RE: K36 Gets First In Game Run! D&RGW Here We Come!!" Thanks.

Behold The POWER of Black and Gold: THE RIO GRANDE RAILROAD Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
JuanFu (46 posts)
Feb-16-02, 07:36 PM (EST) 30. "RE: K36 Gets First In Game Run! D&RGW Here We Come!!" This loco. looks reallt awesome!!! It will really good with some narrow-gauge freight cars,etc. Thanks for making it, it looks fabulous!!!-Zach Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
FozzyBear (556 posts)
Feb-17-02, 04:36 AM (EST) 31. "RE: K36 Gets First In Game Run! D&RGW Here We Come!!" >This loco. looks reallt awesome!!!
>It will really good with
>some narrow-gauge freight cars,etc.
>Thanks for making it, it
>looks fabulous!!!
Thanks Zach!
Working hard to try and make this as accurate as it can be. I may well release some narrow gauge stock with this model If I get time to do it before the release. Otherwise It'll be released as an add on.Best Regards,
Julian (Fozzy The Bear)
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Hack (603 posts)
Feb-17-02, 10:21 AM (EST) 32. "RE: K36 Gets First In Game Run! D&RGW Here We Come!!" Fozzy - A most excellent piece of machinery you have there! I hope you'll also consider doing one of these for Trainz - MSTS and Trainz with Fozzy's K36...Too cool! Outstanding work, sir! Gotta' love D&RGW!Cheers!
Marc - 3DTrains
http://www.3dtrains.com
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FozzyBear (556 posts)
Feb-17-02, 04:14 PM (EST) 33. "RE: K36 Gets First In Game Run! D&RGW Here We Come!!" LAST EDITED ON Feb-17-02 AT 04:14 PM (EST)>Outstanding work, sir! Gotta' love D&RGW! Thanks Marc,
I'll be in touch with you by mail about a conversion to trainz I think you and I may have some possible room for discussion on that one.Best Regards,
Julian (Fozzy The Bear)
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Hack (603 posts)
Feb-17-02, 05:19 PM (EST) 34. "RE: K36 Gets First In Game Run! D&RGW Here We Come!!" LAST EDITED ON Feb-17-02 AT 05:20 PM (EST)Sure thing, Julian - Should be a piece of cake. Cheers!
Marc - 3DTrains
http://www.3dtrains.comVisit the Virginia and Ohio Virtual Railroad:
http://www.3dtrains.com/VandO Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

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