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"Trolley, Tram & Interurban Standards Needed"

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woodman (144 posts)
Feb-13-02, 00:26 AM (EST) "Trolley, Tram & Interurban Standards Needed" I believe that we're going to see quite a few trolleys, trams, interurbans and main line juice jacks coming out soon. I'd like to propose a couple of standards. Wire height, per NMRA standards, are 21 feet for city and interurban cars and 23 feet for heavy mainline use. Maybe we can use the NE Corridor as built for the mainline standard and lower it a bit for the others. The ideal is to have trolley poles and bow collectors at about a 45 degree angle and pans running a little bit under full extension. Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
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Subject Author Message Date ID RE: Trolley, Tram & Interurban Stan... Thirdrail70 Feb-13-02 1 RE: Trolley, Tram & Interurban Stan... richb Feb-13-02 2 RE: Trolley, Tram & Interurban Stan... numnutz Feb-13-02 3 RE: Trolley, Tram & Interurban Stan... Thirdrail70 Feb-13-02 4 RE: Trolley, Tram & Interurban Stan... woodman Feb-13-02 7 RE: Trolley, Tram & Interurban Stan... richb Feb-14-02 12 RE: Trolley, Tram & Interurban Stan... Overkill211 Feb-14-02 14 RE: Trolley, Tram & Interurban Stan... Thirdrail70 Feb-13-02 5 RE: Trolley, Tram & Interurban Stan... Thirdrail70 Feb-13-02 6 RE: Trolley, Tram & Interurban Stan... beluga Feb-13-02 8 RE: Trolley, Tram & Interurban Stan... woodman Feb-13-02 9 RE: Trolley, Tram & Interurban Stan... beluga Feb-14-02 10 RE: Trolley, Tram & Interurban Stan... chucksc Feb-14-02 11 RE: Trolley, Tram & Interurban Stan... beluga Feb-14-02 13 RE: Trolley, Tram & Interurban Stan... chucksc Feb-14-02 15 RE: Trolley, Tram & Interurban Stan... Thirdrail70 Feb-15-02 16 RE: Trolley, Tram & Interurban Stan... beluga Feb-15-02 17 RE: Trolley, Tram & Interurban Stan... msavianney Mar-11-02 18 RE: Trolley, Tram & Interurban Stan... dchagar Mar-12-02 19 RE: Trolley, Tram & Interurban Stan... msavianney Mar-13-02 20 RE: Trolley, Tram & Interurban Stan... msavianney Mar-15-02 21

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Thirdrail70 (89 posts)
Feb-13-02, 10:25 AM (EST) 1. "RE: Trolley, Tram & Interurban Standards Needed" Good suggestion. Since a lot of the supply of prototype Diesel locomotives and even most major steamers have been already modeled, the trolley, tram and rapid transit environment is wide open and ripe for modeling. This includes also the overlooked world of heavy mainline electric locomotives. These areas of railroading have usually been given short shrift by the manufacturers of HO and O gauge model trains as well. Without our European friends, we'd be totally out of luck in this area. Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
richb (136 posts)
Feb-13-02, 06:41 PM (EST) 2. "RE: Trolley, Tram & Interurban Standards Needed" I have seen heavy weight suburbans as a kid on the Los Angeles-Long Beach Pacific Electric Line using pantographs. A month or so ago I posted (here) photos of interurban P.C.C. cars used on the NEC tracks around the Baltimore area. The poles on PCC cars are adaptable to line height up to 24ft. Boston had PCC cars refitted with pantographs about 10 years ago.So all in all the PCC car is a very adaptable animal!Rich
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numnutz (18 posts)
Feb-13-02, 07:05 PM (EST) 3. "RE: Trolley, Tram & Interurban Standards Needed" What about us third (and fourth) railers? Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
Thirdrail70 (89 posts)
Feb-13-02, 07:08 PM (EST) 4. "RE: Trolley, Tram & Interurban Standards Needed" Yes, these should be included also. The London underground has been well covered in BVE in case you're interested. Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
woodman (144 posts)
Feb-13-02, 07:54 PM (EST) 7. "RE: Trolley, Tram & Interurban Standards Needed" >I have seen heavy weight suburbans
>as a kid on the
>Los Angeles-Long Beach Pacific Electric
>Line using pantographsPlease don't take this the wrong way, but.... Pacific Electric never used pans in regular service. Maybe a couple of early experiments. You might be thinking of Sacramento Northern. They used poles, pans and 3rd rail. I recall the Four Tracks clearly since I refanned PE when I was a nipper. Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
richb (136 posts)
Feb-14-02, 12:29 PM (EST) 12. "RE: Trolley, Tram & Interurban Standards Needed" >Please don't take this the wrong
>way, but.... Pacific Electric never
>used pans in regular service.
>Maybe a couple of early
>experiments. You might be thinking
>of Sacramento Northern. They used
>poles, pans and 3rd rail.
>I recall the Four Tracks
>clearly since I refanned PE
>when I was a nipper.
>
My mind is getting fuzzy with the onset of old age, but I am sure the Pacific Electric trains we took down to Long Beach had a pantograph and looked a lot like the PRR in the picture in this series of posts. This would have been 1956 or 57. I was familiar with the poles on trolleys and at the time was suprised to see the pantograph on the roof of the PE liner.
I think it was a few years later they shut down the PE line in LA county. Rich
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Overkill211 (65 posts)
Feb-14-02, 08:48 PM (EST) 14. "RE: Trolley, Tram & Interurban Standards Needed" Check out the Orange Empire Railway Museum site:
http://www.oerm.org/
Every one of those Pacific Electric units used poles.
Yes, I know theirs is by no means a complete representation of Pacific Electric's roster. We're simply pointing out that PE's preference was poles. LARy/LAMTA also used poles on everything. Personally, I like poles better than pantographs, because they require a higher precision in line construction. That's just me, though. Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
Thirdrail70 (89 posts)
Feb-13-02, 07:15 PM (EST) 5. "RE: Trolley, Tram & Interurban Standards Needed" How about someone making a MSTS model of the new Tampa trolleys made by GOMACO for Tampa. http://www.gomacotrolley.com/Resources/photos/These trolleys are brand new but built in the traditional style of the 1920's. No elbow pantographs here. Authentic trolley poles and other traditional trappings all the way. If you like trolleys you'll love these cars. The Tampa trolley operation begins in Spring, 2002.
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Thirdrail70 (89 posts)
Feb-13-02, 07:22 PM (EST) 6. "RE: Trolley, Tram & Interurban Standards Needed" Make that linkhttp://www.gomacotrolley.com Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
beluga (146 posts)
Feb-13-02, 09:53 PM (EST) 8. "RE: Trolley, Tram & Interurban Standards Needed" I'm creating a Pennsy MP 54. I will use the current NEC height because it make sense.

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woodman (144 posts)
Feb-13-02, 10:38 PM (EST) 9. "RE: Trolley, Tram & Interurban Standards Needed" And well you should. However, There were thousands of miles of interurban and trolley lines at one time and they look ridiculous under the heavy duty main line catenary built to PRR standards.I'm simply saying that before people wander off to do their thang it'd be a good idea to have some visual inter-operability. Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
beluga (146 posts)
Feb-14-02, 06:29 AM (EST) 10. "RE: Trolley, Tram & Interurban Standards Needed" That makes sense too. Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
chucksc (1191 posts)
Feb-14-02, 07:46 AM (EST) 11. "RE: Trolley, Tram & Interurban Standards Needed" Yes!!!!!!!!! I'll take 10 or so of the MP54s....
See us for a cab when you are ready! There might even be one in our parts box...
These will look good running next to the NH Washboards and PRR Silverliners we are working on.....------Chuck Schneider---------

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beluga (146 posts)
Feb-14-02, 04:26 PM (EST) 13. "RE: Trolley, Tram & Interurban Standards Needed" LAST EDITED ON Feb-14-02 AT 04:28 PM (EST)I'll begin final construction on the MP54 next week during winter break. My wife thinks I'll be looking for a higher paying job. I have not decided which model or year.
Any thoughts? I have the basic body and trucks -less textures.
The photo above shows a transitional trainset. The lead being a newly? rebuilt unit -note the windows and scheme.
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chucksc (1191 posts)
Feb-14-02, 10:28 PM (EST) 15. "RE: Trolley, Tram & Interurban Standards Needed" That's how I remember them.... I'm trying real hard to forget the PC paint overs.... At least do that one.....
maybe the Classic from the early 30s (same as the GG1s)
I think they were Brunswick at that point???????
but I'm not sure....------Chuck Schneider---------

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Thirdrail70 (89 posts)
Feb-15-02, 09:27 AM (EST) 16. "RE: Trolley, Tram & Interurban Standards Needed" Might as well make the Long Island RR versions of the MP54's as well in grey with the orange ends. If you're ambitious, the combines and motor bagage cars were nice also. On the NH and New York Central, MU baggage cars were unpowered unlike on the pennsy. Looking forward to your creations. Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
beluga (146 posts)
Feb-15-02, 06:34 PM (EST) 17. "RE: Trolley, Tram & Interurban Standards Needed" When a third rail track texture becomes available it will be an easy conversion. The LIRR units have (had) a different roof. Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
msavianney (22 posts)
Mar-11-02, 09:53 PM (EST) 18. "RE: Trolley, Tram & Interurban Standards Needed" Having almost finished a Milwaukee 1100 series interurban, I think the whole idea of standards is important. Thanks to TSM, construction is easy, better than my old scratchbuilding efforts, without the glue smells! I'll post screenshots when I fix my A drive on the computer I use TSM and MSTS on, as the internet computer here is another machine...Matt Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
dchagar (32 posts)
Mar-12-02, 11:06 AM (EST) 19. "RE: Trolley, Tram & Interurban Standards Needed" We now have the Austrailian(?) tram car, but we could sure use a North American interurban.

I'm about half-way through building the Mesaba Electric, and running the Chicago El cars doesn't quite do it.
Dave Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
msavianney (22 posts)
Mar-13-02, 10:00 PM (EST) 20. "RE: Trolley, Tram & Interurban Standards Needed" I've nearly finished a Milwaukee 1100 series interurban, see here for a typical prototype pic;I'll whip up a 'generic' Brill/Jewett/Niles interurban car to see how things go. I'm getting the a drive of my own computer fixed next week, so I'll post pics then. I have no idea about .eng files, so the 1100 is currently being hauled around, using a modified freight .wag file. Screenshots to come about Sun/Mon. After the 1100 (in various colours) and the 'generic' car, I'll try a Milwaukee Speedrail Cincinatti curveside car, then a duplex. TSM is deadset brilliant!Matt Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
msavianney (22 posts)
Mar-15-02, 06:18 PM (EST) 21. "RE: Trolley, Tram & Interurban Standards Needed" Phew! I was up till the wee small hours this morning working on the 1100. I finally got it going, using a modified .eng file and a cabview from the Japanese dmu. I'm currently using the sounds from the fantastic CLW/NALW GG1 and I'm putting the finishing touches on the model today, including horns, marker lights and more underfloor details. The trolley poles needed work, as there was a bit of guesswork required on getting the rear pole at the right height for the wire. Three .s saves later, it worked out, and I had a great time tearing along the NEC, imagining that I was on the Rapid Transit row out to Waukesha. Screenshots to come...Matt Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

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