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straccaletto (24 posts)
Jan-12-02, 08:45 AM (EST) "C50 steam japanese loco" Hi to all,
I'd like to know if somebody is working on the unrealistic eng files of this nice model.
If no, if somebody is able to find the tech specs of the real one I can try to adjust it.
TKS
Ciao
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Subject Author Message Date ID RE: C50 steam japanese loco TOPDOG5184 Jan-12-02 1 RE: C50 steam japanese loco black5 Jan-12-02 2 RE: C50 steam japanese loco straccaletto Jan-13-02 3 RE: C50 steam japanese loco TOPDOG5184 Jan-13-02 4 RE: C50 steam japanese loco straccaletto Jan-14-02 5 RE: C50 steam japanese loco ricksan Jan-14-02 6 RE: C50 steam japanese loco ricksan Jan-14-02 7 RE: C50 steam japanese loco TOPDOG5184 Jan-14-02 8

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TOPDOG5184 (508 posts)
Jan-12-02, 06:00 PM (EST) 1. "RE: C50 steam japanese loco" Hi. your in luck. I'm going to try to fix the eng file. I started making the Hisiastsu (sp?) line all manual for the purpose of using it. I love running steam so to run this loco the way it should you need a proper eng file but most importantly a proper route that allows switching to comense. I'll keep you posted. It'll be a few days as I have some cabooses to paint. Craig Shortino Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
black5 (79 posts)
Jan-12-02, 07:07 PM (EST) 2. "RE: C50 steam japanese loco" What I did is replace the important values in the .eng file with those from a similar sized 2-6-2 tank engine (by Terry Thornton)to get a more realistic feel.
SIMISA@@@@@@@@@@JINX0D0t______Wagon ( BRGPrairie81xx01
comment( Green BR Prairie 81xx 2-6-2 Tank by Terry Thornton)
Type ( Engine )
WagonShape ( BRGPrairie81xx01.s )
Size ( 3.123m 3.79m 13.0m)
CentreOfGravity ( 0m 1.7m 0m )
Centre ( 0m 0m 0m )
Mass ( 76.55t )
InertiaTensor ( Bo3.1m 3.9m 13.0m) )
Coupling (
Type ( automatic )
Spring (
Stiffness ( 1e6N/m 2e6N/m )
Damping ( 1e6N/m 1e6N/m )
Break ( 3.2e6N 3.2e6N )
r0 ( 20cm 40cm )
)
)

Adheasion ( 0.175 0.38 2 0.5 )
DerailRailHeight ( 4cm )
DerailRailForce ( 240kN )
DerailBufferForce ( 400kN )
WheelRadius ( 0.70m )
NumWheels ( 6 )
Friction (
880N/m/s 0 1mph 17.50 N/m/s 1.8
5.1N/rad/s 1 -1rad/s 0 1
)

BrakeEquipmentType( "Vacuum_brake, Handbrake, Auxilary_reservoir" )
BrakeSystemType( "Vacuum_single_pipe" )
MaxBrakeForce( 90kN ) MaxHandbrakeForce( 80kN )
NumberOfHandbrakeLeverSteps( 100 )

MaxReleaseRate( 10 )
MaxApplicationRate( 10 )
MaxAuxilaryChargingRate( 10 )
BrakeCylinderPressureForMaxBrakeBrakeForce( 21 )

Sound ( "FScotEng.sms" )

Lights ( 4
Light (
comment( Flickering firebox )
Type ( 0 )
Conditions (
Headlight ( 0 )
Unit ( 0 )
)
FadeIn ( 0.5 )
FadeOut ( 0.5 )
Cycle ( 0 )
States ( 2
State (
Duration ( 0.05 )
LightColour ( 80ff7200 )
Position ( -0 1.85 -2.55 )
Azimuth ( -180 -180 -180 )
Transition ( 0 )
Radius ( 1.4 )
)
State (
Duration ( 0.05 )
LightColour ( 80ffe610 )
Position ( -0 1.8 -2.5 )
Azimuth ( -180 -180 -180 )
Transition ( 0 )
Radius ( 1.4 )

)
)
)
Light (
comment( Sphere of light )
Type ( 1 )
Conditions (
Headlight ( 3 )
Unit ( 2 )
)
Cycle ( 0 )
FadeIn ( 0.5 )
FadeOut ( 0.5 )
States ( 1
State (
Duration ( 0.0 )
LightColour ( aaffff99 )
Position ( 0 2.5 9 )
Transition ( 0 )
Radius ( 80.0 )
Angle ( 13.0 )

)
)
)
Light (
comment( Head light top dim )
Type ( 0 )
Conditions (
Headlight ( 3 )
Unit ( 2 )
)
FadeIn ( 0.5 )
FadeOut ( 0.5 )
Cycle ( 0 )
States ( 1
State (
Duration ( 0.0 )
LightColour ( aaffff99 )
Position ( 0.0 3.38 4.8 )
Azimuth ( 0.0 -5.0 5.0 )
Transition ( 0 )
Radius ( 0.4 )
Elevation ( -10 -10 -10 )
)
)
)

Light (
comment( Rear red light )
Type ( 0 )
Conditions (
Headlight ( 3 )
Unit ( 2 )
)
FadeIn ( 0.5 )
FadeOut ( 0.5 )
Cycle ( 0 )
States ( 1
State (
Duration ( 0.0 )
LightColour ( 80ff0000 )
Position ( 0.9 1.6 -6.02 )
Azimuth ( -180 -180 -180 )
Transition ( 0 )
Radius ( 1.0 )
Elevation ( -10 -10 -10 )
)
)
) )
)Engine ( BRGPrairie81xx01
comment( Class A1 )
Effects
(
SteamSpecialEffects
(
comment
(
the format of these little blocks is as follow: offset.x offset.y offset.z
normal.x normal.y normal.z
width in metres defining the offset from the shape pivot point
where steam / smoke should appear, the direction
it should go and the width of the nozzle
) WhistleFX
(
0 3.85 -2.
0 1 0
0.05
) SafetyValvesFX
(
0 3.885 -0.5
0 1 0
0.2
) StackFX
(
0 3.9 3.8
0 1 0
0.2
) DrainpipeFX
(
-1.5 1.258 -3.886
-0.4 -1 -0.2
0.05
) CylindersFX
(
-1.35 0.51 3.2
0 0 1
0.1
) CylindersFX
(
1.35 0.51 3.2
0 0 1
0.1
)
)
) Wagon ( BRGPrairie81xx01 )
IsTenderRequired( 0 )
Type ( Steam )
MaxPower ( 1569kW )
MaxForce ( 28165lbf )
MaxVelocity ( 85mph )
WheelRadius ( 0.84m )
Sanding ( 1e9mph )
NumWheels ( 6 )
BoilerLength ( 3.35m )
BoilerVolume ( "6.17*(ft^3)" )
BoilerEffectivity ( 1.0 )
DraftingEffect ( 0.8 )
BoilerResponsiveness ( 1.22 )
CoalBurnage ( 3.6lb/hp/h )
MaxBoilerOutput ( 32500lb/h )
NumCylinders ( 2 )
CylinderStroke ( 30in )
CylinderDiameter ( 18in )
CylinderVolume ( "4.41*(ft^3)" )
CylinderEffectivity ( 1 )
InjectorSizes ( 11mm 12mm )
ExhaustLimit ( 36000lb/h )
PrimingFactor ( 1 )
BlastExponent ( 0.9 )
MaxBoilerPressure ( 225psi )
MaxFireMass ( 2000lb )
IdealFireMass ( 1500lb )
MaxWaterMass ( 4000lb )
SafetyValvesSteamUsage ( 6000lb/h )
ShovelCoalMass ( 1lb )
SmokeCombustion ( 1 )
MaxTenderCoalMass ( 8960lb )
MaxTenderWaterMass ( 13200lb )
comment(0 for live steam, 1 for exhaust steam)
InjectorTypes( 0 1 )
SuperHeater ( 1.23 )
SteamSmokeUnitsPerPoundOfFuel( 1 )
SteamMaxSmokeUnitsReleaseRate( 10 )
MaxSteamHeatingPressure( 80 )
SafetyValvePressureDifference( 5 )
SteamGaugeGlassHeight( 10 ) BasicSteamUsage ( 750lb/h )
BasicCoalUsage ( 600lb/h )
comment( min steam pressure, min water proportion, max water proportion )
InjectorLimits1 ( 50psi 0.6 1 )
InjectorLimits2 ( 60psi 0 1 )
CylinderCocksPowerEfficiency ( 0.9 )
SteamCylinderCocksOperation( Manual ) VacuumBrakesSmallEjectorPowerRating( 3.5 )
VacuumBrakesMinBoilerPressureMaxVacuum( 110 )
VacuumBrakesSmallEjectorUsageRate( 500 )
VacuumBrakesLargeEjectorUsageRate( 2400 )
VacuumBrakesHasVacuumPump( 0 ) TrainBrakesControllerMaxReleaseRate( 12 )
TrainBrakesControllerMinSystemPressure( 0 )
TrainBrakesControllerMaxSystemPressure( 21 ) EngineBrakesControllerHasProportionalBrake( 1 )
EngineBrakesProportionalBrakeLag( 0.9 ) BrakesEngineBrakeType( "Vacuum_single_pipe" )
BrakesTrainBrakeType( "Vacuum_single_pipe" )
BrakesEngineControllers( "Hand, Train" ) SteamSmallestCutoff( 8 )
NumberOfDamperSteps( 4 ) RegulatorValveType( Twin_port )
RegulatorSecondValveStartPosition( 0.5 )
RegulatorPilotValveExponent( 1.7 )
RegulatorSecondValveExponent( 1.7 )
RegulatorPilotValveFullOpenning( 0.3 )
RegulatorMainValveInitialOpenning( 0.4 ) SteamBlowerEffectExponent( 0.9 )
SteamBlowerEfficiencyExponent( 1.1 )
SteamBlowerMaxSteamUsageRate( 500 ) comment( lbs/h )
SteamBlowerMaxProportionOfBlastEffect( 0.15 ) SteamWaterScoopMinPickupSpeed( 25 ) comment( mph )
SteamWaterScoopMaxPickupSpeed( 60 ) comment( mph )
SteamWaterScoopResistance( 8500N )
comment( pounds per second. 6000gallons per minute max. )
SteamWaterScoopMaxPickupRate( 1000 )

SteamSmokeUnitsPerPoundOfFuel( 4.5 ) CabView ( scotsman.cvf )
HeadOut ( -1.2 3.2 -3.87 ) EngineControllers (
comment( Engine controls )

Regulator ( 0 1 0.025 0
NumNotches( 0 )
)
Cutoff ( -0.55 0.75 0.01 0
NumNotches( 0 )
)
Brake_Train ( 0 1 0.01 0.65
NumNotches( 2
Notch(0 1 TrainBrakesControllerReleaseStart )
)
Notch(0.5 1 TrainBrakesControllerApplyStart )
)
)
Brake_Hand ( 0 1 0.0125 0
NumNotches( 0 )
)
FireDoor ( 0 1 0.1 0
NumNotches( 0 )
)
Sanding( 0 1 0 )
Blower ( 0 1 0.025 0.2
NumNotches( 0 )
)
HeatingTap ( 0 1 0.025 0
NumNotches( 0 )
)
Shovel ( 0 1 0.1 0
NumNotches( 0 )
)
DampersFront ( 0 1 0.1 1
NumNotches( 0 )
)
DampersBack ( 0 1 0.1 0
NumNotches( 0 )
)
Injector1Steam ( 0 1 0 )
Injector2Steam ( 0 1 0 )
Injector1Water ( 0 1 0.1 0
NumNotches( 0 )
)
Injector2Water ( 0 1 0.1 0
NumNotches( 0 )
)
CylinderCocks ( 0 1 1 )
Whistle ( 0 1 0 )
WaterScoop ( 0 1 0 )
SmallEjectorOrCompressor( 0 1 1 )
Headlights( 0 1 0 )
) comment(fire temp, fire mass, water mass, boiler pressure,
water level, tender_water_mass, tender_coal_mass,
smoke_quantity, fire_condition, coal quality )

EngineVariables( 740 1250 2000 200 0.7 10000 6000 450 1 2 )
Sound ( "FScotCab.sms" )
Name ( "BR Green No. 8100" )
Description (
"Origin G.W.R.. introduced 1938, Rebuilds of earlier 5100 Class"+
"Typically used for Local passenger work.\n\n"+
"Locomotive type & no.: Green BR 2-6-2T No. 8100 \n\n"+ "Power source: 225 psi hand-fired, coal burning boiler\n\n"+
"Wheel configuration: Six 5 ft 6 in. (1.68 m) diameter driving wheels in a 2-6-2 configuration\n\n"+
"Max. speed: 85 mph (145 km/h) under favorable conditions\n\n"+
"Height: 12 ft. 6 in. (3.81 m)\n\n"+
"Width: 9 ft 0in. (2.74 m) (over cylinders)\n\n"+
"Length : 41 ft 6 in. (12.5 m)\n\n"+
"Weight : 76.55 tons\n\n"+
"Tractive effort: 28,165 lb (12401 kg)\n\n"+
"Coal capacity: 4 tons\n\n"+
"Water capacity: 2,000 gallons (9,092 liters)\n\n"
)
Use these figures as a basis for your .eng .!!!!
Georges from London Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
straccaletto (24 posts)
Jan-13-02, 08:56 AM (EST) 3. "RE: C50 steam japanese loco" Hi friends,
nice to know that somebody is looking in the same direction of me.
I'm happy of this new and I'm ready to start developing new freight activity for it
Ciao
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TOPDOG5184 (508 posts)
Jan-13-02, 11:08 PM (EST) 4. "RE: C50 steam japanese loco" Hi Straccaletto. I have run into a problem with the Hisatsu line being made manual. Sadly I was 50% complete when I started getting the lovely note from Micro$oft. You know the Send/Don't send one. I think I might have forgotten to remove a signal and that is what's causing the error. I have just one question of you. Do you know how fast the C50 went? I can't find any info on the this type of loco. If I have a speed I can make up the rest of the eng file to be 80 to 90% realistic. The Hisatsu line should be done in 2 days. I wouldn't recommend doing any activities just yet for the one you have if your goinbg to get the manual one I'm doing as I am going to remove all the signals until I can go back and replace them. That takes alot of time that I don't have right now. So I will be releasing a manual switch and no signal version for now. Craig Shortino Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
straccaletto (24 posts)
Jan-14-02, 02:08 AM (EST) 5. "RE: C50 steam japanese loco" Hi Craig, tks for the quick answer.
About the performance of the steam loco there's a generic formula taking into consideration the driving wheels diameter, the adhesion weight, regulator and some other little things.
Now as now I don't remember where I put it, but I'll look for.
Anyway the data resulting will be only generic and obviously not correct at 100%.
Obviously that will be the same in our case.
Another question: if you try to pull the cars of the C50 you'll feel like if they are very heavy, don't you?
Let me know.
Ciao
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ricksan (16 posts)
Jan-14-02, 06:20 AM (EST) 6. "RE: C50 steam japanese loco" I wish I could help. I built this model from drawings in a Japanese book I happen to own. It was published in the 70s at about the time the last operating steam was being phased out and it covers all the different types of steam locomotives that were built there. Unfortunately it doesn't have any performance information -- just some historical stuff and general things like weights and capacities.I think that unless someone else can come up with better information, the best approach is to use data that is available for American locomotives of similar size and configuration. I do know the Japanese began building their own locomotives, rather than importing them, in the early 20th century and that the primary source for the imports was the USA. The 8600/C50 series was one of these early efforts. I imagine there is probably a "family resemblance" to its stateside ancestors.Jet lag sucks.Rick Vernon
Taiwan, ROC Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
ricksan (16 posts)
Jan-14-02, 06:37 AM (EST) 7. "RE: C50 steam japanese loco" I converted many of the Hisatsu switches to manual. Never had problems with that, per se. But I too had problems with the signals. I created activities that send AI KIHAs in the opposite direction at approx 1/2 hour intervals. Sometimes that works fine, but other times it doesn't. The problem is that sometimes, in order to reverse into a siding for a pickup or setout, you have to pass through a green light. That sets it red, but it stays that way even when you reverse and get clear of the signal. After waiting and waiting you eventually realize the only solution is to hit Esc, or better still, run the red light at full throttle!I was going to relocate the signals past the switch throats instead of where Kuju has them. This would avoid latching the signals and also would allow the loco to do runarounds for switching opposite-facing sidings. Never got around to it, though, and can't do anything about it here. Maybe someone else might want to give it a try. It looks like the C code for the these particular signals is pretty simple (Another project I never had time for). It might also be worth someone's time to explore re-programming them.Rick Vernon
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TOPDOG5184 (508 posts)
Jan-14-02, 05:54 PM (EST) 8. "RE: C50 steam japanese loco" LAST EDITED ON Jan-14-02 AT 06:01 PM (EST)Hi. Us USA guys had 2-6-0 moguls that could climb steep grades with heavy loads but I really don't know if I could simulate that in the sim as there are limitations. Doing so may overpower the loco on level ground resulting in a faster model. Take the 819 cotton belt for example. It could haul 100 loaded cars at speed but the sim will not allow that so the creator made 2 models. one with the overpowered specs to allow that to happen and one with the proper specs but can haul less. I shall try my hardest to get this as close as possible. Also the Hisatsu line is indeed tough to get the signals right not just because where they are but also because of the setup of the line. i.e. some switches are right next to another switch so moving the switch up more may cause havoc. I am going to start on the eng file tonight. I didn't start yet as I have been doing cabooses for the longhairedwizard for his upcoming activities. I should be done by tom. I will keep you all posted. Craig Shortino Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

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