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v1perfan (57 posts)
Jan-10-02, 04:47 PM (EST) "File Libraries for 3d Models" Hi Folks,I was wondering how open you 3d modellers would be to having a library of either parts or entire models in TSM available to everyone?Personally, I wouldn't have any issues donating my models to a public file library. I understand that there are many talented people out there who slave for hours producing models, and its understandable that there would be some hesitation in "giving up your secrets". One important issue would be the use of a model for commercial or economical gains by another party.Just a thought...Brian. Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
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Subject Author Message Date ID RE: File Libraries for 3d Models AlabamaRailfan Jan-10-02 1 RE: File Libraries for 3d Models beadyboy Jan-10-02 2 RE: File Libraries for 3d Models Stew Jan-10-02 3 RE: File Libraries for 3d Models rgarber Jan-11-02 4 RE: File Libraries for 3d Models beadyboy Jan-11-02 5 RE: File Libraries for 3d Models comtrain Jan-11-02 10 RE: File Libraries for 3d Models kwk100 Jan-11-02 6 RE: File Libraries for 3d Models svante Jan-11-02 7 RE: File Libraries for 3d Models wbgx Jan-11-02 8 RE: File Libraries for 3d Models svante Jan-11-02 9 RE: File Libraries for 3d Models comtrain Jan-11-02 11 RE: File Libraries for 3d Models wbgx Jan-11-02 12 RE: File Libraries for 3d Models steam4me Jan-11-02 13 RE: File Libraries for 3d Models svante Jan-11-02 16 RE: File Libraries for 3d Models svante Jan-11-02 17 RE: File Libraries for 3d Models jchamb Jan-11-02 14 RE: File Libraries for 3d Models steam4me Jan-11-02 15 RE: File Libraries for 3d Models jchamb Jan-11-02 20 RE: File Libraries for 3d Models Xerxes Jan-11-02 18 RE: File Libraries for 3d Models edwardk Jan-11-02 19

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AlabamaRailfan (88 posts)
Jan-10-02, 05:36 PM (EST) 1. "RE: File Libraries for 3d Models" Hey Brian,
Personally, I have always thought this was a good idea. There was even on a thread on it some time back, but never got enough interest up to talk to Nels about another file section.It would be especially good for parts. Why build a particular bogie (or horn or cab or whatever) if someone else has already done it. This "swapping" of parts would make for more quality model and seems like it would help the TS community.I guess the only downside (gonna play a little devil's advocate here) is the case of someone using a part or a whole model and not giving proper credit to the designer. For this reason, maybe some designers would prefer to only swap parts not whole models.Again, just my 2 cents worth! Happy Simming!John D. Peterson
Webmaster - AlabamaRailfan.com
http://www.alabamarailfan.com
MSTS Section: http://www.alabamarailfan.com/msts/ Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
beadyboy (114 posts)
Jan-10-02, 08:46 PM (EST) 2. "RE: File Libraries for 3d Models" A great idea I also think. A pair of couplers would have been nice for a loco I've built. Windscreen wipers are another item which are pretty much the same world wide. Parts would not have to be textured either, just in 3ds or TSM format.Parts also should not require crediting anyone. If I made a simple part for a file library, it would be for the benefit of everyone and I would definately not expect credit for it.If anything, I'd just add to the docs; "some parts obtained from parts library, thanks to those who donated".You got my support.ps, I'd still like a standard coupler
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Stew (69 posts)
Jan-10-02, 11:34 PM (EST) 3. "RE: File Libraries for 3d Models" Sounds like reasonable idea. The flightsim community has something like this over at Freeflight Design. They have complete aircraft models that other designers have made and posted the source files. Anyone who has the design program that matches the file format is free to download and use the file. Each zip file contains a readme stating the terms and conditions of use. In simple terms it's no commercial use, credit the original author(s), don't upload elsewhere without permission and give something back. Stew Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
rgarber (1013 posts)
Jan-11-02, 00:11 AM (EST) 4. "RE: File Libraries for 3d Models" I would take a different tack on this library. I do think it's a good idea but I would make the user understand that any upload to the library can be useable period without permission, without anything.The reason I say this is imagine a readme.txt file where the list goes on and on because the author choose to use whatever multiple objects.Every time I go to release a route or add-on I have a slew of authors to credit, I do know what this is like. If you create a diesel with enough add-ons and forget even just one author, you could create an unintended controversy. Why not keep it simple and put the burden on the author (of the object), if they choose to release an object into public domain or not. This would only be this library of objects and not things in general of course.Rich Garber Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
beadyboy (114 posts)
Jan-11-02, 00:48 AM (EST) 5. "RE: File Libraries for 3d Models" LAST EDITED ON Jan-11-02 AT 00:51 AM (EST)Exactly right Rich. Basically, if you put it in the "parts" library, it is void of ownership, free from terms or conditions of use, and requires no crediting to anyone.We are talking spare parts here, not models ladies and gentlemen! Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
comtrain (54 posts)
Jan-11-02, 04:47 AM (EST) 10. "RE: File Libraries for 3d Models" and don't forget that those of us who are not egotist's (is that how to spell it?) will be searching every new model picking out our bits
At least if not publicly, we will be telling everyone who will listen.." did you see that cool X Class Loco that Somebody posted last week....my wipers, couplers and bogies! wasn't it a great model?
And of course the crap will quickly dissappear as the specialists
provide quality components.
As an example I need the train Artisan nose from their F7 to help me finish a Victorian Railways S Class The bogies from a sd40, butbrake gear modified to double blocks, the car body shape could be F7 also but needs to lose some height and stretch about 12 feet ......
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kwk100 (23 posts)
Jan-11-02, 01:47 AM (EST) 6. "RE: File Libraries for 3d Models" A source file library is a great idea. About the whole credit thing, I could make a small program that you download from this library, which automatically creates a 'Credits' document and adds the name of the designer, date, which object and whatever else, which you upload with your model. With any other downloaded parts having this information added to this 'Credits' document?kwk100
Smokey and the Bandit... Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
svante (385 posts)
Jan-11-02, 02:46 AM (EST) 7. "RE: File Libraries for 3d Models" I can't really see why designers would want or need such a library. Part of the joy of making add-ons is knowing that you've made it yourself. It's not a matter of mass producing add-ons assembly line style, with pre-fabricated trucks, wheels, couplers and what-have-you. It's a matter of creating pieces of art one by one.An information bank with info about things like the exact dimensions of a knuckle coupler, coupler height, information about different types of trucks (such as when arch bars, Bettendorfs etc were used), info about wheel and axle dimensions and so on would be far more interesting than a parts library. Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
wbgx (80 posts)
Jan-11-02, 03:50 AM (EST) 8. "RE: File Libraries for 3d Models" I agree with Svante that a database with dimensional information etc. would give everyone a common 'standard' to work with. I recently made my first piece of rolling stock and the learning curve was steep for several reasons. I found the process interesting, but wished I had data available to assist the process. Fortunately, several good individuals came to my rescue when I needed coupler heights.Boomer Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
svante (385 posts)
Jan-11-02, 04:40 AM (EST) 9. "RE: File Libraries for 3d Models" You can find some interesting info, both prototype info and model RR info, at http://www.urbaneagle.com/data/RRstddims.html, or compare your rolling stock and locomotives to my well cars because they have the correct coupler height, 34.5" (but few MSTS locomotives match that height). Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
comtrain (54 posts)
Jan-11-02, 05:01 AM (EST) 11. "RE: File Libraries for 3d Models" Look Svante and others..Everyone is in this game for a different reason. I got a great eye for detail, unfortunately I don't even know how to draw a stick man properly...I am completely un-interested in building trains. Unfortunately only one person on this forum is providing Australian Trains(NR CLASS)
So if I want to run what is famililiar to me, I am going for all the help I can get. So don't be greedy, their is room for every taste and hobbyist. Thank God you can treat it as an art form, and that you do get great pleasure making the stuff. But I bet that many more people owning this game, are like me. I would spend 90% of my computer time running trains....You would spend..what 10% of yours? (meaning of course the rest of your time is taken with design and construction ) Thanks again for your models and look forward to the sd70's Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
wbgx (80 posts)
Jan-11-02, 05:11 AM (EST) 12. "RE: File Libraries for 3d Models" Svante, thank you very much for the lead to the dimensional data. I will use this information extensively in the future.Boomer Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
steam4me (43 posts)
Jan-11-02, 06:39 AM (EST) 13. "RE: File Libraries for 3d Models"
>I can't really see why designers
>would want or need such
>a library.
For the same reason many designer-modelers use Kadee couplers or bogies rather than scratchbuild their own.A sim modeler just has to state in his readme.txt "completely original design and textures"
or alternatively
"designed by me containing both original designs and textures as well as parts from the TrainSim parts library."
>An information bank with info about
>things like the exact dimensions
>of a knuckle coupler, coupler
>height, information about different types
>of trucks (such as when
>arch bars, Bettendorfs etc were
>used), info about wheel and
>axle dimensions and so on
>would be far more interesting
>than a parts library.

This respository of information could happily co-exist with a parts library.Designers will still be respected for the quality of their designs whether a parts library is used or not.
RegardsYuri.

==================================
MSTS Australian Add-ons site
http://www.railpage.org.au/trainsim
==================================
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svante (385 posts)
Jan-11-02, 07:02 AM (EST) 16. "RE: File Libraries for 3d Models" >A sim modeler just has to
>state in his readme.txt "completely
>original design and textures"
>or alternatively
>"designed by me containing both original
>designs and textures as well
>as parts from the TrainSim
>parts library." In a perfect world that would work fine. But this isn't a perfect world. There are lots of people out there who'd take every chance they have to steal other people's work and present it as their own. I've been subjected to such thefts myself, and I don't like it. Flight simmers have also seen dozens of cases of commercial rip offs, where the work of others has been stolen and then sold.I might be subconsciously guarding my territory but I personally will not contribute to a parts library./SW
(16-side 33" flanged wheels with a contoured axle.)
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svante (385 posts)
Jan-11-02, 09:03 AM (EST) 17. "RE: File Libraries for 3d Models" Since I posted a picture of a 33" standard flanged wheelset I might as well show a picture of a 38" deluxe flanged wheelset. The difference is in the contour of the flange. It's possible to make models that are so detailed that you can't use them...These wheelsets were made in seven different parts that were individually textured and then joined to form a single part. Parts uploaded to a parts library must be retextured by whoever uses them. But even a seemingly simple part like a set of wheels is so complex that retexturing the (joined) wheels below to the same standard as the ones I've made must be done polygon by polygon, which will actually take more time than making a new wheelset from scratch including texturing parts separately before joining them. But I wonder how many of those favoring a parts library have actually thought about things like that.I don't mind sharing "construction drawings" like the one above. They're extremely helpful if you have a working knowledge about 3D software. But they still require some work from people using them and making a set of wheels from such a "drawing" is like building a cupboard from drawings in Popular Mechanics. You've done all the work yourself, and can feel the pride of having accomplished something. It's not like assembling some prebuilt stuff bought at the nearest IKEA as making a car from parts downloaded from a parts library would be. Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
jchamb (112 posts)
Jan-11-02, 06:42 AM (EST) 14. "RE: File Libraries for 3d Models" I think that it's a good idea to share models, and I did that for a number of years on flightsim.com. I was hoping to start a 'trend' in that direction when I uploaded my TSM caboose (which includes all the .dst and .tga files), so that anyone could take it apart and re-work, improve, or just tinker with it.As far as I know, it's still the only file in the library to include the .dst files.Right now I'm playing with a container crane, and a couple of semi trucks (for making intermodal scenery) - and I plan to upload those with all the files. Hopefully by doing this, folks can improve on the models bit-by-bit, and we can all share better models.
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steam4me (43 posts)
Jan-11-02, 07:00 AM (EST) 15. "RE: File Libraries for 3d Models"
>I uploaded my
>TSM caboose (which includes all
>the .dst and .tga files),
>so that anyone could take
>it apart and re-work, improve,
>or just tinker with it.
I agree.... I'm learning a lot about texturing and what makes a model look good by dismantling .ACEs with TgaTools. 3D modelling has a steep learning curve and the whole community will benefit from giving each other a leg-up.I'm currently struggling with car interiors - I'll have to look at your caboose.RegardsYuri.

==================================
MSTS Australian Add-ons site
http://www.railpage.org.au/trainsim
==================================
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jchamb (112 posts)
Jan-11-02, 03:44 PM (EST) 20. "RE: File Libraries for 3d Models" I also made a couple of simple boxcars with both open and closed doors (in 40 and 50 ft models). I tried to upload those about a month ago, but couldn't get the upload to work at that time. Perhaps I should try again.My personal feeling on this is that if I upload a model (say my caboose or crane), and someone else modifies it by adding parts, reducing polygons or whatever -- hopefully they will pass it on by uploading it again, and it will be better for all of us.If someone else can put additional railings on the caboose, or make whatever modifications they wish, then good for them. I just hope they send it back so that I can see how they did it.Actually I'm kinda hoping someone will load my tractor-trailer rigs into TSM and make them better. I was just getting burnt out on making the crane, but had to throw something together to sit those darned containers on!I understand that some folks do this stuff for a living, and I respect that, but I don't. I've spent the last 30 years of my life sitting in front of a computer, and now I'm retired. I only do it when I want to do it, and work on what I want to work on. If someone else benefits by my labors, good for them...
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Xerxes (104 posts)
Jan-11-02, 09:41 AM (EST) 18. "RE: File Libraries for 3d Models" I certainly am one of those people who were looking for this to happen. While I can understand Svante's concerns/position I simply do not have the TIME to reinvent the wheel every time I want to do/create something. I don't go out and cut down trees, load them into my own personal sawmill, and then plane them in order to build something out of wood. I go to the store and buy STANDARD items from them. Then when I'm finished I don't explain to all and sundry about how I went to the local lumberyard and bought SPECIAL KILN-DRIED 2x4's to make it. Not 1 in 10,000 would care, but if I didn't do this I wouldn't have made anything. Just my $0.02 worth. res07bqx@verizon.net Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
edwardk (27 posts)
Jan-11-02, 02:45 PM (EST) 19. "RE: File Libraries for 3d Models" I am not using TSM as of yet but will be planning on getting it. Once I do get it, I know I am going to have a learning curve to look forward too. I believe it would be better if the experienced people provided infomation such as dimensions, tips, and other information that would make it easier to learn TSM.Parts on the other hand is a different story. If one type of truck on a freight car is used quite frequently, than why not upload it. I already know there are a variety of trucks based on the car and the load.Edward K. Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

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