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Johansteam (67 posts)
Dec-31-01, 09:39 AM (EST) "South African Railways Locos" As so many Simmers requested our Faithful Loco builders out there to manufacture another Loco or two.....always either American, Canadian or English etc. Could I pretty Please also jump on the band wagon and ask for a South African type Loco?
I'm so desperate that anything would do.........Steam, Diesel or Electric.
Johan South Africa Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
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Subject Author Message Date ID RE: South African Railways Locos cjmaclean Dec-31-01 1 RE: South African Railways Locos SilverFox Dec-31-01 2 RE: South African Railways Locos cjmaclean Dec-31-01 3 RE: South African Railways Locos jm1941 Dec-31-01 4 RE: South African Railways Locos cjmaclean Dec-31-01 5 RE: South African Railways Locos SilverFox Dec-31-01 6 RE: South African Railways Locos jm1941 Jan-01-02 11 RE: South African Railways Locos jm1941 Jan-01-02 7 RE: South African Railways Locos Johansteam Jan-01-02 8 RE: South African Railways Locos Euston Jan-01-02 9 RE: South African Railways Locos jm1941 Jan-01-02 10 RE: South African Railways Locos Johansteam Jan-02-02 12 RE: South African Railways Locos Johansteam Jan-02-02 13 RE: South African Railways Locos cjmaclean Jan-02-02 14 RE: South African Railways Locos Johansteam Jan-02-02 15 RE: South African Railways Locos Johansteam Jan-02-02 16 RE: South African Railways Locos jm1941 Jan-02-02 17 RE: South African Railways Locos Sleeper Jan-03-02 18 RE: South African Railways Locos jm1941 Jan-04-02 19 RE: South African Railways Locos Sleeper Jan-04-02 22 RE: South African Railways Locos Johansteam Jan-04-02 20 RE: South African Railways Locos Johansteam Jan-04-02 21 RE: South African Railways Locos Sleeper Jan-04-02 23

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cjmaclean (725 posts)
Dec-31-01, 09:52 AM (EST) 1. "RE: South African Railways Locos" Second that motion. Don't know a whole lot about South African railroads, but what I do know (and like ) are those big Garratt and Kitson-Meyer steamers, as well as the E 444 and E 919 electrics.D.M.
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SilverFox (73 posts)
Dec-31-01, 12:24 PM (EST) 2. "RE: South African Railways Locos" Hi,
There is at least one SA steam loco for MSTS - a Beyer Garratt.
Cheers, John
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cjmaclean (725 posts)
Dec-31-01, 12:44 PM (EST) 3. "RE: South African Railways Locos" No, I'm sorry, but this one's from NSW . Unless I've missed something, the Garratt you can find in the file library here is an Australian AD-60 4-8-4 + 4-8-4 from the New South Wales Government Rwy.D.M."Inter Arma Enim Silent Leges" Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
jm1941 (149 posts)
Dec-31-01, 05:00 PM (EST) 4. "RE: South African Railways Locos" G'day John,D.M is correct, the S.A.R. Bayer Garratts were 4-8-8-2 + 2-8-8-4 and were oil fired.
The N.S.W.G.R was a 4-8-8-4 + 4-8-8-4 were Coal fired and is the one the N.S.W chap made. By the way I still use it all the time, but Double Headed on the Marias Pass, much better now with Marias Pass Version 3.0. Double head them in MSTS and the sound is much better in outside view.
Pity there was not a version 2.0 of that engine, as it was well done for not long after MSTS got going.But I think the South Australian Garratts were nicer engines.Of course they were.
I worked with them from 1963 to 1970
Till they were scrapped and cut up.
Darn diesels. Like your picture, do you know WHERE it was taken, those box cars have me buggered. The SAR Garratts only ran on the Narrow Gauge Peterborough Division. We use to double head them out of Jamestown up the notorious Belalie North bank to Yongala then on into Peterborough. (just some light info)
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cjmaclean (725 posts)
Dec-31-01, 05:11 PM (EST) 5. "RE: South African Railways Locos" Don't want to spoil you, but I think you and Johan sre talking about two different S.A.R.'s...South African Railways vs. South Australian Railways. Not that I would not welcome any new Garratt!D.M."Inter Arma Enim Silent Leges" Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
SilverFox (73 posts)
Dec-31-01, 05:36 PM (EST) 6. "RE: South African Railways Locos" cj & jm1941,
I'll defer to your greater knowledge of Garratts.
They were made in Trafford Park, Manchester(UK) and the only one I have ever seen is in the Manchester Museum of Science and Industry and was shipped back from South Africa and restored. I have some photos of it somewhere.
The one in the photo is from a website in Zambia devoted to Garratts, so the box cars are probably South African. There are lots more photos at http://www.lantic.co.za/~jmiles/photo_garratt.html
Happy New Year to you both
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jm1941 (149 posts)
Jan-01-02, 05:47 PM (EST) 11. "RE: South African Railways Locos" G’day John,I made a boo boo with the wheel configuration of the Garratts.
I’m correcting this in case others read this and get way-laid later on.I showed the S.A.R. Bayer Garratts as 4-8-8-2 + 2-8-8-4.
and the N.S.W.G.R as 4-8-8-4 + 4-8-8-4.
CORRECTION
The S.A.R. were a 4-8-2 + 2-8-4 and the N.S.W.G.R. a 4-8-4 + 4-8-4.I had been downloading a couple of pictures yesterday of the UP Class 4000, 4-8-8-4.
Had that configuration on my mind.
Well at 60 the old gray cells just aren’t what they use to be. LOLThese are my next engines I like after the Garratts.

Hope someone can really do a nice job of creating one of these for MSTS.
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jm1941 (149 posts)
Jan-01-02, 03:37 AM (EST) 7. "RE: South African Railways Locos" G'day CJ, John,Opps, sorry!... Put one's foot in some cow dung.
I made a new attached post to keep these pictures easier to see.
For making the Boo Boo, here a couple of shots of our, er I mean was!....
The South Australian Garratt. Maybe some useless info on our S.A.R Garratt.
This was the '400' class, the mighty Garratt. The most powerful narrow gauge steam locomotive in Australia. The second most powerful steam locomotive (excluding boosters) on the South Australian Railways. Based on a highly successful metre gauge design built be Bayer Peacock for the British War Department during World War II. The '400' class was identical in main specifications to the 60th class of the East African Railways. The design was also built in 1952 by Henschel of Germany for the Great Western Railways of Brazil and S.A.R.'s ten locomotives were built concurrently with an order for Pakistan. The design has been described by one authority as one of the best light Garratts ever built. Small they may have been by Garratt standards, but on the Peterborough Division they were truly mighty. Few steam locomotives were loved by their crews as were the '400' Class Garratts. When introduced in 1953 they had to live down the unfortunate impression created by the Australian Standard Garratt of sorry memory. This they soon did and in no time they had gained a reputation for reliability and guts. Built by Beter Peacock's European assiciate Societe Franco-Beige De Materiel De Chemins De Fer, of Raismes, France, the locomotives were of the 4-8-8-2 + 2-8-8-4 wheel arrangement. Although built as oil-burners the oil bunker was removable and provision was made for the fitting of a mechanical stoker should conversion to coal firing be required. The locomotives were also designed for conversion to either 5ft 3in, or 4ft 8½in gauge if necessary. However, probably no other class of locomotive on the S.A.R. (South Australian Railways) was so restricted to the one area of operation. They plied back and forth between Port Pirie and Cockburn with only occasionally the relief of runs to Terowie, 14 miles south from Peterborough. So proud of their Garrats were the Peterborough men that they painted them green, strictly against instructions. They poured a little green into the approved black and called it "invisible green". When newly issued to traffic they were immaculate to the last nut and bolt. Although they lasted only 17 years, it is fitting that they were not run until completely worn out. A worn out Garratt would have broken the heart of a Peterborough engineman. And so it was right to the last, for in the final week of steam operation the Garratts that took part did their jobs without faltering. Uploading their reputation as the noisiest engines on the S.A.R., their famous roar as they accelerated up the ruling grades was as strong as it ever was.
Cylinders (4): ............................. 16 in. x 24 in.
Boiler Pressure: ......................... 200lb.
Diameter of Driving Wheels: .......... 4 ft.
Tractive effort: .......................... 43,520 lb.
Roadworthy Weight:................. 149 tons.
Length over couplers: .............. 87 ft. 5 in.
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Johansteam (67 posts)
Jan-01-02, 01:48 PM (EST) 8. "RE: South African Railways Locos" Just a few South African Locos.








Johan
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Euston (684 posts)
Jan-01-02, 02:38 PM (EST) 9. "RE: South African Railways Locos" I would like to see one of those huge condesing locomotives, with the long tenders.You know, the Cape Town to Pretoria route was a 26 hour run, and all electrified. That would be a large route...
http://clix.to/trainsim Lanserat East RR - 25% complete see images on my website. Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
jm1941 (149 posts)
Jan-01-02, 03:55 PM (EST) 10. "RE: South African Railways Locos" G'day Johan,Loved the Garratt. She lovely.

Since retired and I've been looking around the Net and every country's Garratts are all slightly different, but all the Garratts are nice. Just something about a Garratt. Have a top spot for our South Australian Garratt of course.
What is this engine.
Got a side shot of it.
If so, resize it to fit screen. I'm interested.
I saw a TV documentry ages back on the South African Railways and the grey cells seem to recollect that engine or something like it being used on the fast freights. Most of the shots were at night, screaming thro some town. Well they looked great. Maybe I'm wrong. That reminded me, sorry must gripe a bit here:-
The one thing I hate most about Documentries and Videos on trains or aircraft is that some wanker just has to YAP his mouth off as the train/plane goes past, OR, there's flaming music going in the background (quite often loud) drowning out any fantastic sounds of train/plane and the very person out there in disneyland who just LOVES to HEAR (not just see) the trains/planes, hear's virtually nothing. (bummer)
All that fantastic camera gear and work, all darn ruined, all because of some narrator and the editor of these documentries and Videos live in sealed glass houses and just loves to listen to their voice and hear HIS own music.. Not the music of trains or aircraft either. They defeat the whole purpose that there is as much or even more in the Hearing, as there is in the Seeing.
End of gripe)
Sorry about that, but I felt like mentioning it for all the good it's likely to do. Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
Johansteam (67 posts)
Jan-02-02, 09:46 AM (EST) 12. "RE: South African Railways Locos" John, the Loco in question is a 23Class, slightly smaller than the Class25 which is the Condensing types. It is also the bigger Brother or (Sister?) of the Class 15F.
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Johansteam (67 posts)
Jan-02-02, 09:52 AM (EST) 13. "RE: South African Railways Locos" Heres a few more



Regards, Johan Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
cjmaclean (725 posts)
Jan-02-02, 10:49 AM (EST) 14. "RE: South African Railways Locos" Johan,
I'm sorry if it's a dumb question, but are all those beautiful steamers still in active service today? Sure looks like it...wow, that'd be so cool!D.M.
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Johansteam (67 posts)
Jan-02-02, 12:38 PM (EST) 15. "RE: South African Railways Locos" D.M.
Some of them are still operating but not as a regular service. They are run by a Private Railway " Rovos Rail " on the South African Railway network and then do we have a few Railway Societies. They also keep them alive. One such Society is close to where I live in Natal....called "Umgeni Steam"
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Johansteam (67 posts)
Jan-02-02, 12:44 PM (EST) 16. "RE: South African Railways Locos" John, your side on view. Not really but close
D.M. sorry I should have mentioned that the actual S.A.R. which is now called "Transnet" with a couple of branches like "Spoornet", "Metrorail" etc also has a section of beautiful restored Locos.

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jm1941 (149 posts)
Jan-02-02, 05:04 PM (EST) 17. "RE: South African Railways Locos" G'day Johan,Thanks for the side on shot, is much appreciated. I like side on shots better, as you get to see the whole engine, rods and all.I know nothing of your engines (steam) in South Africa.
Is it possible for you to put the name of loco to each of those pictures you posted and maybe a small bit of info about them. Sorry if I seem to be a bit of a pain, but I put all photos into HTML files so it is easier for me to perv on those nice lovely engines. I do this with every Steam and Diesel engine I find now, is very easy to find all the photos on the Hard drive too. Have heaps of HTM's, got quite a nice collection going, but the photos look much better with some info to go with them, that's why I put them into HTM's as I can add bits of info to them at anytime. Makes them come more alive. A photo on its own is much like a nameless person. I never did take much notice of the South African steam engines.
You have some really nice ones.
NOW you have got me going on them as well.I worked for the Railways here most of my life, now retired and I had a working love for my job (rare to find these days) as a railwayman. Till I retired I never looked much further than our own engines (Diesel and Steam). I was always fascinated and would have loved to be on one of those UP Big Boys with a full head of steam sitting in the hot seat. That was the my limit of steam engines outside our area here in South Australia. Once retired, then came the PC and Internet and later MSTS, my world opened up. When MSTS was first announced to be made, I started a hectic checking out engines so I have started very, very late, (hope not too late) so madly now slowly LEANING about the steamers especially. It's a hard road, as most steam rail fans know every nut and bolt about them. Far more than us who lovingly worked with them. Well for me the only upper hand I had on the rail fans was I use to be able to help them to get their good photo shots and sound recordings (hell that was fun at times) and my heap of overall Railway experience, but looking back now I'm just happy and now fully realize just how very fortunate I was to be able to have that overall experience in railways from Steam days into Diesels. My era is now vanishing. .....but Johan if you do not wish to put anything, that's okay I will understand, I can only ask.
Anyway thanks for putting some of your engines here for us to see.By the way I heard somewhere that most of your steam engines were coal, as coal was plentiful in your neck of the woods. I presume this is why steam survived for so long in South Africa when all the others were busily cutting theirs up for scrap. Going to diesels would add a lot of fuel costs if your country has to import oil. Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
Sleeper (5 posts)
Jan-03-02, 07:32 PM (EST) 18. "RE: South African Railways Locos" Hi JohanThanks for the interesting pictures. I know exactly how you feel, all these North American and other locomotives are all very interesting, but they don’t stir any of our memories. Modelling a locomotive is a fair amount of work and unless there is something in it for the modeller, I'm afraid that we’ll not see many favours been done. I’d like to take the opportunity to add more pictures to this collection showing the Class 25 condensing type locomotive and a Class GMA/M double header.I eagerly awaited the release of MSTS so that I could model SAR stock but never got round to acquiring it as the requirement for 3D Studio ruled that out. I'm attempting to write a simulation program utilising DirectX directly featuring SAR stock as shown below, a Class GMA/M and a B2 wagon. Smoke, couplers, interesting trackside objects and a lot of other things are still on order. It really is too much work but I'm enjoying myself and not missing MSTS!Groete.
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jm1941 (149 posts)
Jan-04-02, 03:23 AM (EST) 19. "RE: South African Railways Locos" G'day Groete,First, thanks for uploading these photos, they are beautys.
They will take pride and place in my HTM on South African Railway STEAM locos. > I’d like to take the opportunity to add more pictures
> to this collection showing the Class 25 condensing type locomotive.I've read here about these condensing type locomotives.
What is the difference between these type and normal steam locos.
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Sleeper (5 posts)
Jan-04-02, 12:30 PM (EST) 22. "RE: South African Railways Locos" Hi JohnSorry, I didn't mean to confuse you but 'groete' is the Afrikaans word for 'greetings'. Unfortunately, I'm not an expert regarding the condensing locomotives but the intention was to condense some of the exhausted steam for reuse as most of South Africa is arid with poor water quality. These condensers were found to be troublesome and never became in widespread use. This is also the reason for the use of supplementary water tanks behind locomotives as seen in the pictures above.Charl
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Johansteam (67 posts)
Jan-04-02, 04:58 AM (EST) 20. "RE: South African Railways Locos" Sleeper, MSTS has been released here in SA. However, with our money depreciating the way it goes at present, it's costing an Arm and a Leg.( R700.00 ) You don't need 3d Studio Max to make models.....There is a program called "3d Canvass" which many Simmers used for some beautiful models ( Not expensive ).I'm sending you a E-mail
( Aussie ) John, I'm a bit tied up at present but will attend to your request in a while.
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Johansteam (67 posts)
Jan-04-02, 05:26 AM (EST) 21. "RE: South African Railways Locos" Sleeper,
I see your E-Mail is disabled. Please drop me a E at
johanjp@worldonline.co.za ( Important )
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Sleeper (5 posts)
Jan-04-02, 02:04 PM (EST) 23. "RE: South African Railways Locos" Hi JohanI sent you an e-mail. Let me know if you don't receive it.
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