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mikkox (166 posts)
Dec-25-01, 05:42 PM (EST) "SP Cab Forward news... and a gallup." I ran into some problems while making the Cab Forward... nothing serious, I'm just pissed off by the limitations placed to articulated engines by MSTS.Here are the options for the SP Cab Forward:Realistic double steam effects (plus a small plume for the electricity generator turbine exhaust), individually slipping front and rear drivers, realistic turning of all the trucks (leading, front driver, rear driver, trailing), BUT consists of FIVE units (front part, ghost tender, rear part, rear extension, visible tender).The other option is to leave out the fancy effects, have single steam effects, wheels slipping together, the trailing truck turning with the rear drivers. And it would consist of only two units, the locomotive and the tender.Since the only way to detect that the locomotive consists of five parts is the F9 consist view (and of course the consist editor), I think I'm going to go ahead with the five-part choise.
Of course the whole locomotive will be permanently coupled, so no danger of cutting off the half of the locomotive accidently. What do you people think?I'll post some screenshots soon. Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
Table of Contents

Subject Author Message Date ID RE: SP Cab Forward news... and a ga... lightbg Dec-25-01 1 RE: SP Cab Forward news... and a ga... nw_fan Dec-25-01 2 RE: SP Cab Forward news... and a ga... cjmaclean Dec-26-01 3 RE: SP Cab Forward news... and a ga... FozzyBear Dec-26-01 4 RE: SP Cab Forward news... and a ga... mikkox Dec-26-01 5 RE: SP Cab Forward news... and a ga... henry3 Dec-26-01 6 RE: SP Cab Forward news... and a ga... cjmaclean Dec-26-01 7 RE: SP Cab Forward news... and a ga... mikkox Dec-26-01 8 RE: SP Cab Forward news... and a ga... cjmaclean Dec-26-01 9 RE: SP Cab Forward news... and a ga... mikkox Dec-26-01 10 RE: SP Cab Forward news... and a ga... cjmaclean Dec-26-01 11 RE: SP Cab Forward news... and a ga... mikkox Dec-26-01 12 RE: SP Cab Forward news... and a ga... cjmaclean Dec-29-01 17 RE: SP Cab Forward news... and a ga... comtrain Dec-31-01 40 RE: SP Cab Forward news... and a ga... mikkox Dec-31-01 43 RE: SP Cab Forward news... and a ga... SP9800 Dec-26-01 13 RE: SP Cab Forward news... and a ga... mikkox Dec-27-01 14 RE: SP Cab Forward news... and a ga... Derby415 Dec-27-01 15 RE: SP Cab Forward news... and a ga... riograndedude Dec-28-01 16 RE: SP Cab Forward news... and a ga... Daylighter Jan-18-02 60 RE: SP Cab Forward news... and a ga... mikkox Jan-18-02 61 RE: SP Cab Forward news... and a ga... Daylighter Jan-18-02 62 RE: SP Cab Forward news... and a ga... mikkox Dec-29-01 18 RE: SP Cab Forward news... and a ga... SD40T_2 Dec-29-01 19 RE: SP Cab Forward news... and a ga... mikkox Dec-29-01 21 RE: SP Cab Forward news... and a ga... SD40T_2 Dec-29-01 22 RE: SP Cab Forward news... and a ga... mikkox Dec-29-01 23 RE: SP Cab Forward news... and a ga... cjmaclean Dec-29-01 20 RE: SP Cab Forward news... and a ga... nw_fan Dec-29-01 24 RE: SP Cab Forward news... and a ga... mikkox Dec-30-01 26 RE: SP Cab Forward news... and a ga... cjmaclean Dec-30-01 28 RE: SP Cab Forward news... and a ga... mikkox Dec-30-01 29 RE: SP Cab Forward news... and a ga... cjmaclean Dec-30-01 30 RE: SP Cab Forward news... and a ga... mikkox Dec-30-01 31 RE: SP Cab Forward news... and a ga... cjmaclean Dec-30-01 32 RE: SP Cab Forward news... and a ga... SD40T_2 Dec-30-01 33 RE: SP Cab Forward news... and a ga... cjmaclean Dec-30-01 34 RE: SP Cab Forward news... and a ga... mikkox Dec-30-01 35 RE: SP Cab Forward news... and a ga... cjmaclean Dec-30-01 36 RE: SP Cab Forward news... and a ga... mikkox Dec-30-01 37 RE: SP Cab Forward news... and a ga... timken Dec-30-01 38 RE: SP Cab Forward news... and a ga... Flighttester Jan-01-02 58 RE: SP Cab Forward news... and a ga... Starlight Jan-01-02 59 RE: SP Cab Forward news... and a ga... SP9800 Dec-29-01 25 RE: SP Cab Forward news... and a ga... mikkox Dec-30-01 27 RE: SP Cab Forward news... and a ga... SP9800 Dec-30-01 39 RE: SP Cab Forward news... and a ga... TOPDOG5184 Dec-31-01 41 RE: SP Cab Forward news... and a ga... timken Dec-31-01 42 RE: SP Cab Forward news... and a ga... mikkox Dec-31-01 44 RE: SP Cab Forward news... and a ga... nw_fan Dec-31-01 45 RE: SP Cab Forward news... and a ga... cjmaclean Dec-31-01 47 RE: SP Cab Forward news... and a ga... mikkox Dec-31-01 49 RE: SP Cab Forward news... and a ga... NickF Jan-19-02 64 Valve gear and reversing timken Dec-31-01 46 RE: Valve gear and reversing mikkox Dec-31-01 48 RE: Valve gear and reversing cjmaclean Dec-31-01 50 RE: Valve gear and reversing mikkox Dec-31-01 51 Sound timken Dec-31-01 52 RE: Sound mikkox Dec-31-01 54 RE: Sound timken Jan-01-02 56 RE: Sound mikkox Jan-01-02 57 RE: Valve gear and reversing TOPDOG5184 Dec-31-01 53 Water scoop sound... hmmm mikkox Dec-31-01 55 RE: This might help a little... tro1086 Jan-19-02 63 RE: SP Cab Forward news... and a ga... jschlen Jan-27-02 65 RE: SP Cab Forward news... and a ga... mikkox Jan-27-02 66

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lightbg (339 posts)
Dec-25-01, 08:52 PM (EST) 1. "RE: SP Cab Forward news... and a gallup." I'm not a big steamer fan, but with 3+ weeks of TSM under my belt it sounds like the 5 part choice gives you more options to get the file to do what you want. I know this isn't much help but your " thinking out loud " can help me learn different ways to do 3 D modeling, and make me better at it also.
Thanks.
Jake Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
nw_fan (206 posts)
Dec-25-01, 09:19 PM (EST) 2. "RE: SP Cab Forward news... and a gallup." Go for the five part loco. You indicate that you are interested in the Simulation Aspect of TrainSim, so make it as real as possible, using whatever tricks you have to. Looking at it from 5 different views using the external views is a plus in my opinion.Mike
Norfolk & Western
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cjmaclean (755 posts)
Dec-26-01, 04:34 AM (EST) 3. "RE: SP Cab Forward news... and a gallup." Not that I knew a whole lot about 3D modeling, but I'd say go ahead with the five-part version. Joe Spinella's Garratt consists (pun ) of three sections as well after all, and it's working like a charm.Looking VERY much forward to your machine!!! (Did I say I LOVE steamers? )
D.M.
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FozzyBear (385 posts)
Dec-26-01, 08:01 AM (EST) 4. "RE: SP Cab Forward news... and a gallup."
> What do you people
>think? Hi Mike,Definitely go for the five part version M8!! It gives us a lot more flexibility for repaints later on too.Best Regards,
Julian (Fozzy The Bear)
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mikkox (166 posts)
Dec-26-01, 12:05 PM (EST) 5. "RE: SP Cab Forward news... and a gallup." Thanks for the comments. Here are some screenshots: You can see how the rear drivers and the trailing bogie both turn with the tracks. The pic isn't best possible, but believe me, they really turn. Also note the small steam plume just behind the cab.I still have to add a lot of detail, all the handrails, tubes and other stuff. And of course make a tender. This will be a high-poly model, propably going over 10,000 polys. But that isn't really so much, considering the size of the locomotive. Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
henry3 (513 posts)
Dec-26-01, 12:13 PM (EST) 6. "RE: SP Cab Forward news... and a gallup." >Thanks for the comments. Here are some screenshots: Great Maker, that is awesome! Keep up the good work and keep us posted! Thanks for the screenshots!>This will be a high-poly model, propably going over
>10,000 polys. But that isn't really so much, considering the
>size of the locomotive. True! Besides, how bad is that 10,000 polys compared to the number in a consist of three to six diesels? Probably not too bad at all.Now if you wanted to double-head the ACs.... Henry
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cjmaclean (755 posts)
Dec-26-01, 12:27 PM (EST) 7. "RE: SP Cab Forward news... and a gallup." Gee, if I can't stop drooling I need to get a new keyboard... Amazing work! This MIGHT just be what I need to do some serious heavy hauling over the Pass. Yesterday I modified one of the default Marias Pass activities to use steamers and early diesels, but even with TA's superb Mountain, doubleheaded with Conn's earlier Mikado, I wouldn't even get to Cutbank. Guess I have to postpone those experiments until you finish the AC...BTW, what do you plan as for the cabview? No way we could use the Scotsman or ESE cab for this locomotive.
How did an AC's cab actually look? Any sites where I could find some photos?But anyway, KEEP IT COMING!!!!!! D.M.
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mikkox (166 posts)
Dec-26-01, 12:56 PM (EST) 8. "RE: SP Cab Forward news... and a gallup." >BTW, what do you plan as
>for the cabview? No way Of course this will have a custom cabview. >How did an AC's cab actually
>look? Any sites where I
>could find some photos? The controls were reversed, the engineer sat on the right side. 360360.com has a nice 360 degree view of the cab... here's the link: http://www.360360.com/cgi-bin/photos/showipi1.cgi?/ipix/199906/cabfwd1_hires.ipxI've also found an educational video about operating in snow that shows the interior of the locomotive. Here's the link to the movie archive: http://ftp.archive.org/html/bytitle.html Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
cjmaclean (755 posts)
Dec-26-01, 01:16 PM (EST) 9. "RE: SP Cab Forward news... and a gallup." Thanks! I still have to ask a question, though - in what direction did the engineer actually face? Did he sit/stand sideways, backwards, or whatever? I had expected the engineer's place to have a set of more or less dashboard-style controls on the front side of the cab and facing in the direction of travel, but that doesn't appear to be the case.Any idea how long it'll be until she's ready?D.M."Inter Arma Enim Silent Leges" Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
mikkox (166 posts)
Dec-26-01, 02:46 PM (EST) 10. "RE: SP Cab Forward news... and a gallup." >what direction did the engineer
>actually face? Did he sit/stand Facing forwards. With brake and other gauges to his left, the throttle above his head on the right side of the seat, the same kind of as on ESE. And the reverser below that, I'm not sure yet which side of the seat it was on.Modelling this cab will be a bit hard, especially if I have to include fireman controls... maybe I'll make a cab with a line dividing the screen, other side having the engineer controls and the other the fireman controls.>Any idea how long it'll be
>until she's ready? If everything goes well, I should have the mesh ready in a week or so, and then spend a few weeks on the cab and sounds. So maybe a total of a month. Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
cjmaclean (755 posts)
Dec-26-01, 03:04 PM (EST) 11. "RE: SP Cab Forward news... and a gallup." I'm really looking forward to this locomotive! There's nothing else like BIG STEAM!Regarding the cabview - did the fireman have that many controls? As far as I know the ACs were oil-fired, so the only thing he'd have at his disposal would have been an oil flow regulator, injector valves, as well as steam pressure, tender and boiler water gauges - maybe a tender oil level indicator as well. Only guessing here, but I don't think there was a firebox door on this locomotive, was it?
D.M.
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mikkox (166 posts)
Dec-26-01, 05:17 PM (EST) 12. "RE: SP Cab Forward news... and a gallup." >Regarding the cabview - did the
>fireman have that many controls? Well, maybe not that many, but the problem is how they are positioned, there's no way to get both engineer and fireman controls in one shot, unless a fish-eye lens would be used.
I'm going to build a 3D-model of the cab using the 360 degree view as a basis.>well. Only guessing here, but
>I don't think there was
>a firebox door on this
>locomotive, was it? Looking at pictures, it seems there is a hole in the firebox, propably with a door. Maybe it is used to check that the mixture of oil and air is correct, like when using coal. I dunno. The fireman's seat is facing forward too, with some gauges to his right, so it would be pretty hard for him to see the hole. Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
cjmaclean (755 posts)
Dec-29-01, 06:09 AM (EST) 17. "RE: SP Cab Forward news... and a gallup." Hey Meeko, if you still need beta testers, you can count me in! I'm about to do a research paper for college soon and could sure need something to clear my head for breaks...D.M."Inter Arma Enim Silent Leges" Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
comtrain (98 posts)
Dec-31-01, 00:04 AM (EST) 40. "RE: SP Cab Forward news... and a gallup." Thanks for the great site containing all those films!!
but could you let me know what the cab forward film was named...
I cannot find it, and it takes over an hour to search the list!
which I am sure you found.
So far I have found 6 or 7 films <6 gig of Railway films>
I am asking my mate, who has broadband to see if he can get me some of it...
Asking because I want to know as much as I can about these engines, before I operate it on my RailRoad ;o))))))
Comtrain Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
mikkox (166 posts)
Dec-31-01, 12:19 PM (EST) 43. "RE: SP Cab Forward news... and a gallup." >but could you let me know
>what the cab forward film
>was named... 29636c.avi
37685a.avi
37685b.aviThose vids had shots of Cab Forwards. Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
SP9800 (174 posts)
Dec-26-01, 10:21 PM (EST) 13. "RE: SP Cab Forward news... and a gallup." I remember I posted a while back about all those oil-burner .eng file parameters I found in loadstr.hdr. I also said I'd include them in the uploaded version of the P-8 2467 if I could get them to work. I couldn't—the controls for steam engines only adjust coal-burning parameters. There didn't seem to be any controls for the atomizer and oil flow, so there was no way to change the fire condition. The moral of this story is that you shouldn't try to use those parameters for the AC, since they don't work. Just try to fake it as good as you can with the coal-burning parameters. Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
mikkox (166 posts)
Dec-27-01, 01:29 PM (EST) 14. "RE: SP Cab Forward news... and a gallup." >I couldn't—the controls for steam
>engines only adjust coal-burning parameters.
> There didn't seem to
>be any controls for the
>atomizer and oil flow, so
>there was no way to
>change the fire condition. Are you absolutely sure? The shoveling rate control didn't affect the fire condition when the locomotive was set for oil firing?If not, there might be controls for the oil burner too, they are just not documented. The loadstr.hdr file doesn't contain the control parameters of the eng-file, for example the Shovel. It's just a question of finding them.I will TRY to use those parameters, but if I can't get them to work I'll fake it with coal. Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
Derby415 (83 posts)
Dec-27-01, 01:37 PM (EST) 15. "RE: SP Cab Forward news... and a gallup." There was a thread here some time ago about someone finding program files or something for and oil burning loco. I cant remeber who or when, but i remember reading it.
Jim Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
riograndedude (151 posts)
Dec-28-01, 10:58 PM (EST) 16. "RE: SP Cab Forward news... and a gallup." If I get that cab foward, might have to bring it to Tehachapi Pass for a fan trip, or tunnel steam cleaning.Behold The POWER of Black and Gold: THE RIO GRANDE RAILROAD Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
Daylighter (38 posts)
Jan-18-02, 03:33 PM (EST) 60. "RE: SP Cab Forward news... and a gallup." Was wondering how this project was coming along. Any news? Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
mikkox (166 posts)
Jan-18-02, 04:30 PM (EST) 61. "RE: SP Cab Forward news... and a gallup." >Was wondering how this project was
>coming along. Any news? I've been really busy for the past few weeks, personal life again. Damn, if I only could stop the world for a few weeks, I could get this done. Here's some screenshots, I've worked on the cab, transparencies don't work correctly, the inside of the cab isn't visible. Also added some detail to the rear, handrails for the monkey deck and a water tube.


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Daylighter (38 posts)
Jan-18-02, 05:39 PM (EST) 62. "RE: SP Cab Forward news... and a gallup." Looking great!Can't wait until it's ready.
"SP All The Way!" Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
mikkox (166 posts)
Dec-29-01, 03:08 PM (EST) 18. "RE: SP Cab Forward news... and a gallup." I added detail to the front, here's two screenshots to show the detail level I'm going for. Does anyone know, did the AC-12 have an air horn too? Or what the horn looking device on the front is? And no bell is visible on the drawings I have, I assume it was hidden inside the front cowling.Also I'd need some info on the marker lights, how they were set? I've read that they had four different states, white, red, green and black. In a picture of the 4294 in the museum it has them set white. Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
SD40T_2 (217 posts)
Dec-29-01, 03:11 PM (EST) 19. "RE: SP Cab Forward news... and a gallup." yea it was a Air Horn, i saw it up close in California State Railroad Museum. Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
mikkox (166 posts)
Dec-29-01, 04:34 PM (EST) 21. "RE: SP Cab Forward news... and a gallup." >yea it was a Air Horn, Ok. I wonder how they used it, did they use both at the same time or was it a optional thing, so the engineer could choose whether to use the air horn or the whistle.It also makes modelling it a bit difficult, there's no way to use them both, I have to pick one to use with the spacebar. Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
SD40T_2 (217 posts)
Dec-29-01, 06:07 PM (EST) 22. "RE: SP Cab Forward news... and a gallup." i believe, they had a different lever or what ever. I saw a video of a SP GS4 using it's Airhorn and the whistle didn't blow. Also, with the bell, I've seen a Cab Foward with a bell on the roof of the cab, but the rest had them hidden. anyways it's looking really good. How much (If payware) will this loco be.
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mikkox (166 posts)
Dec-29-01, 07:02 PM (EST) 23. "RE: SP Cab Forward news... and a gallup." >it's looking really good. How
>much (If payware) will this
>loco be. It will be freeware. But if someone really wants to support the cause and pay, I'd be happy to take some money. Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
cjmaclean (755 posts)
Dec-29-01, 03:15 PM (EST) 20. "RE: SP Cab Forward news... and a gallup." SWEEE-E-E-E-E-E-T ! ! ! ! ! ! ! *runs all over his room drooling* Now if Jens-Chris (the maker of the upcoming E units) only decided to tackle an UP Turbine as his next project (see thread "What the **** was THAT?"), I'd be in Virtual Railroad Heaven...
D.M.
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nw_fan (206 posts)
Dec-29-01, 07:06 PM (EST) 24. "RE: SP Cab Forward news... and a gallup." Would it be possible to do something using the bell option? For insance, makes the horn blast, rather than the bell? I understand you would lose the bell sound and probably be limited to a non-loopable horn recording, so whatever you use for the horn would be what you hear every time, but it is a start. Just a thought, it might make your engine just a little more interesting than everyone elses'.Mike
Norfolk & Western
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mikkox (166 posts)
Dec-30-01, 06:08 AM (EST) 26. "RE: SP Cab Forward news... and a gallup." >Would it be possible to do
>something using the bell option? Yeah, thats fully possible, but I don't wanna lose the bell, it's important in american railroad operations.I started thinking what other buttons generate sounds... and came up with and idea about the sander button X. I could lose the sanders, by setting the friction values so that it would be always on sanding. Anyway I have to set the rear drivers so because the other units can't put their sander on when the leading one does. So it wouldn't be such a loss.Then I would replace the sanding sound with the air horn sound, and if it's possible set it so that it sounds only when the X button is pressed down. Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
cjmaclean (755 posts)
Dec-30-01, 06:32 AM (EST) 28. "RE: SP Cab Forward news... and a gallup." LAST EDITED ON Dec-30-01 AT 06:33 AM (EST)> Anyway I have to set the rear drivers so because the other units can't put their sander on when the leading one does. So
it wouldn't be such a loss. Uh? Really? Didn't know that...
> Then I would replace the sanding sound with the air horn sound, and if it's possible set it so that it sounds only when the X button is pressed down. Well, given the current limitations in TS I think this would be an acceptable solution. As far as the button setup is concerned, isn't that defined in the CVF file? I think it should be possible, though.
D.M.
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mikkox (166 posts)
Dec-30-01, 07:02 AM (EST) 29. "RE: SP Cab Forward news... and a gallup." >Uh? Really? Didn't know that... Yeah, another stupid MSTS bug.>far as the button setup
>is concerned, isn't that defined
>in the CVF file? I Yeah, I tried changing it but no effect. But it doesn't matter, it's pretty easy to flick the air horn on and off, it works nicely that way, just the same way as the whistle. Two quick pushes of the X for short blast, and a slower double-push for long blasts.Actually it's easier that way if you think that the custom on american railroads when approaching crossings is to give two long blasts, one short blast and a long blast that continues until the train has passed the crossing. Now you can just leave the horn on until the long train has passed. Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
cjmaclean (755 posts)
Dec-30-01, 09:19 AM (EST) 30. "RE: SP Cab Forward news... and a gallup." That leads me to a few questions regarding the use of the horn on American railroads. Are you saying the engineer must pull the horn until the last car of the train has passed the crossing? And must he do that even if he's running, say, right through a city, no matter what time it is? I mean, a locomotive whistle/horn is LOUD, and I could imagine many people would go ballistic when they are tooted from their sleep at 2:00 a.m....D.M."Inter Arma Enim Silent Leges" Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
mikkox (166 posts)
Dec-30-01, 10:30 AM (EST) 31. "RE: SP Cab Forward news... and a gallup." Oops, my memory is failing... this is how it is:14L (15L in current rule books) The sandard American grade crossing signal, so named for the rule which specifies it in the AAR whistle code. It consists of two long blasts, a short blast, and a long blast (i.e. the letter 'Q' in Morse code), the last blast to be prolonged until the locomotive is actually within the crossing.How stupid of me to think that the last blast should be long enough for the whole train to roll by the crossing... Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
cjmaclean (755 posts)
Dec-30-01, 10:48 AM (EST) 32. "RE: SP Cab Forward news... and a gallup." And yet another question from my side...why do American railroads still use bells on locomotives? I haven't heard about that being practice in any other country these days.D.M."Inter Arma Enim Silent Leges" Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
SD40T_2 (217 posts)
Dec-30-01, 01:49 PM (EST) 33. "RE: SP Cab Forward news... and a gallup." LAST EDITED ON Dec-30-01 AT 01:53 PM (EST)Canada uses em. Infact the grade crossings in the city,they don't do it the American way(Long Long Short Long) the use the bell. I believe it's another warning device, usually when pulling into or out of a station. but they use it at grade crossings to. but i'm sure that's not all they are for. Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
cjmaclean (755 posts)
Dec-30-01, 01:59 PM (EST) 34. "RE: SP Cab Forward news... and a gallup." Sorry that I forgot Canada ...I'm just wondering why they would still use bells on North American railroads. Don't get me wrong, but it feels a bit archaic...over here in Europe I havent't seen any modern locomotives that had a bell.D.M."Inter Arma Enim Silent Leges" Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
mikkox (166 posts)
Dec-30-01, 02:34 PM (EST) 35. "RE: SP Cab Forward news... and a gallup." >Sorry that I forgot Canada
>...I'm just wondering why they
>would still use bells on
>North American railroads. Don't get Maybe it's just a deep rooted tradition. Like having a fireman onboard was, when the first diesels came... there was a fireman onboard with pretty much nothing to do. Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
cjmaclean (755 posts)
Dec-30-01, 02:41 PM (EST) 36. "RE: SP Cab Forward news... and a gallup." They kept the firemen even on electric locos (GG-1 et. al.), right? Well, maybe to keep the boilers for the wagon heating running ...BTW, do you know how the fuel oil was pumped from the tender into the firebox/combustion chamber on an oil-fired steamer? Mechanical or electric pumps...or the same way as the water?D.M.
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mikkox (166 posts)
Dec-30-01, 04:29 PM (EST) 37. "RE: SP Cab Forward news... and a gallup." >BTW, do you know how the
>fuel oil was pumped from
>the tender into the firebox/combustion
>chamber on an oil-fired steamer? The oil tank was pressurised with air from the brake system to ensure flow of oil at uphills. The oil was also heated to make it flow better, if cold it wouldn't flow very well.I think the oil burner had a steam operated jet, like the injectors in the boiler. Or then it used air pressure to spray the oil in the firebox. Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
timken (237 posts)
Dec-30-01, 04:56 PM (EST) 38. "RE: SP Cab Forward news... and a gallup." The oil was sprayed into the firebox with steam, the device being called an atomizer. As far as I know, only the Cab in Fronts had pressurized tender tanks, to get the oil to move the long distance.
Most engines had gravity feed to the atomizer, but most all had heaters on the oil line at least. Cold bunker C flows about like cold honey!Steve Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
Flighttester (1 posts)
Jan-01-02, 09:46 PM (EST) 58. "RE: SP Cab Forward news... and a gallup." I believe that the Fireman tradition was spelled U-N-I-O-N.It took a long time for that "tradition" to be overcome.Rich Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
Starlight (88 posts)
Jan-01-02, 11:07 PM (EST) 59. "RE: SP Cab Forward news... and a gallup." the reasons for the bells are actually simple when you think about it.I don't know much about europe; but from what I've seen picture wise and been told, it's hard to get close to the trains...and most of the platforms are at car height. That is to say, the car doors open right to the platform rather than the platforms being at rail level.In america; it's common practice for a train to sound the horn when coming into the station to clear the tracks (many of our platforms are rail level) and then the bell stays on to warn anyone who might be looking away or not have heard the horn.Would you belive (little off topic) that if you catch the windage just right that it's possible for a large train to be nearly silent? Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
SP9800 (174 posts)
Dec-29-01, 09:13 PM (EST) 25. "RE: SP Cab Forward news... and a gallup." LAST EDITED ON Dec-29-01 AT 09:14 PM (EST)The air-horn-looking thing is an air horn. SP rules prescribed that the air horn was to be used when approaching grade crossings or when warning people or animals on the track. The steam whistle was to be used for all other whistle signals.When the train was running as an extra, the classification lights on the locomotive were to be white. All sections of trains except the last one (for example, 1-2, 2-2, but NOT 2) were to display green class lights. If the train was the last or only section of a regularly scheduled train, it was to display no classification lights.Now, what would be really cool would be train number indicators that we could change by renaming some .ace files.... Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
mikkox (166 posts)
Dec-30-01, 06:15 AM (EST) 27. "RE: SP Cab Forward news... and a gallup." Thanks for the info.>Now, what would be really cool
>would be train number indicators
>that we could change by
>renaming some .ace files.... Hey, thanks for the idea. I'll put the number plates on their own .ace file. Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
SP9800 (174 posts)
Dec-30-01, 09:57 PM (EST) 39. "RE: SP Cab Forward news... and a gallup." Actually, what I was thinking was to have each of the 5 separate positions be mapped to separate .ace files. That way we could just rename and copy the files instead of having to make a whole new .ace. Just something to consider.... Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
TOPDOG5184 (550 posts)
Dec-31-01, 03:11 AM (EST) 41. "RE: SP Cab Forward news... and a gallup." LAST EDITED ON Dec-31-01 AT 03:14 AM (EST)Hi. Since I am a steam buff and also studying large steamers such as the big boys, mallets, challengers, and cab forwards there is one thing you should know. The sander wouldn't have to be set to always on as the train had 135,000 lb tractive efforts for each set of drive wheels. i.e. they had 135,000 tractive on the first and second sets. if you configure the eng file for this you will not need the sander ever as the train will have more than enogh power and weight on the wheels to not slip even at 100% regulator. I have done this to the D&RGW#3300 mallet in the library. I gave it the specs of the mallet of the 40's and she is able to haul 30 coal cars fully loaded up the original Marias with only one loco. its supposed to haul 75+ by itself up that but I'm not the best eng editor when it comes to the shoveling rate, coal burnage, and water usage rates but I am good at adhesion and power. the adhesion should be set to this for all the sets: 4.0 i.e. wherever you see a . in the adhesion put a 4 before the . and an 0 after. now run the train and floor it from dead standstill. no wheel slippage. just a suggestion but that way you won't need the sander and can have the air gorn on the x key. plus she'll be realistic. Craig ShortinoP.S. if you want I can edit the eng file for the adhesion levels. I'm at TOPDOG5184@pikeonline.net. in case your interested. if you need to know something about them let me know and I'll tell you what I know or what I can find out. Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
timken (237 posts)
Dec-31-01, 11:32 AM (EST) 42. "RE: SP Cab Forward news... and a gallup." Hey TopDog,I hate to say this, but some one gave you some incorrect info on tractive effort! A very few steam engines, large articulateds like the NP 2-8-8-4's had around 150,000 pounds of tractive effort, total, but nothing had over 200,000 pounds! I think 135,000 sounds about right for the total of both engines on the SP AC's, the 4-8-8-2's. Consider, the total for UP 3985 is roughly 97,000.Steve Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
mikkox (166 posts)
Dec-31-01, 12:28 PM (EST) 44. "RE: SP Cab Forward news... and a gallup." >Actually, what I was thinking was
>to have each of the
>5 separate positions be mapped
>to separate .ace files. Ummm, why? If I place them all in a one file, you just need to change that one file and it will change all the positions.To my knowledge, the locomotive number is on the round plate above the headlight, in small lighted rectangular plates under the front windows, and on the sides of the cab, right?Then there are the two bigger lighted plates above the front windows... what they were used to? Should I give a separate file for them too? Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
nw_fan (206 posts)
Dec-31-01, 12:33 PM (EST) 45. "RE: SP Cab Forward news... and a gallup." Any new progress? How bout a new screenshot?Mike
Norfolk & Western
Precision Transportation Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
cjmaclean (755 posts)
Dec-31-01, 03:14 PM (EST) 47. "RE: SP Cab Forward news... and a gallup." By the way, were the oil tenders the AC-12s used rather rounded (like tank cars) or box-shaped like a normal coal tender? I think I have seen both versions, but am not sure right now.D.M.
"Inter Arma Enim Silent Leges" Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
mikkox (166 posts)
Dec-31-01, 04:16 PM (EST) 49. "RE: SP Cab Forward news... and a gallup." >By the way, were the oil
>tenders the AC-12s used rather
>rounded (like tank cars) or
>box-shaped like a normal coal It seems that the AC-12s used box-shaped water tanks. I've also seen pics of cab forwards with rounded tanks, but I think those were the first generation cab forwards, converted from 2-8-8-2 mallets. Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
NickF (669 posts)
Jan-19-02, 00:22 AM (EST) 64. "RE: SP Cab Forward news... and a gallup." I forget most of the colors for markers, but as I remember, white meant that the train was an extra section. Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
timken (237 posts)
Dec-31-01, 02:24 PM (EST) 46. "Valve gear and reversing" Meeko, you seem to be a real wizard at this. Is there any chance of seeing a locomotive with working forward/reverse motion? A great reference is http://www.tcsn.net/charlied/ where you can download a program that lets you run a diagrammed valve gear ( a large variety of gears actually), so you can see how it all interacts. I suspect this would be a bit much on an articulated, but with the miracles you've performed so far, nothing would surprise me!Steve Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
mikkox (166 posts)
Dec-31-01, 04:11 PM (EST) 48. "RE: Valve gear and reversing" >Is there any chance of
>seeing a locomotive with working
>forward/reverse motion? A great
>reference is http://www.tcsn.net/charlied/ where you Umm, I'm not really sure what you mean. Of course the valve gear will be fully animated, every rod that should move will move. But there's no way to select forward/reverse motion, so the valve gear appears to be always at forward "gear", at about 50% cut-off or so.I already have that nice little program, I used it to get the valve gear animation right. Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
cjmaclean (755 posts)
Dec-31-01, 04:35 PM (EST) 50. "RE: Valve gear and reversing" Are you going to skin the AC all black, or will you make the smokebox silver/grey, as some of them appear to have been?D.M.
"Inter Arma Enim Silent Leges" Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
mikkox (166 posts)
Dec-31-01, 06:12 PM (EST) 51. "RE: Valve gear and reversing" >Are you going to skin the
>AC all black, or will
>you make the smokebox silver/grey,
>as some of them appear
>to have been? I don't think any of them were all black, they had grey heat resistant graphite paint on the hot smokebox. That might look black at some photographs.Locomotives were normally painted with silver on the smokebox because of it's heat resistancy and good reflecting that people would see the locomotive coming. The Cab Forwards had silver on the front grille below the cab.So it will be grey on the smokebox, silver at front and black otherwise. I will naturally release templates too for people to repaint, I'm not so good at painting textures. Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
timken (237 posts)
Dec-31-01, 06:38 PM (EST) 52. "Sound" Another thought, Have you by chance seen the Pentrex (I think) tape, SP 4274, Last run of a Cab Forward over Donner Pass? One of the first things I noticed in it, and they point it out too, the exhaust from the air pumps is like no other. I don't really like the sound all that well, but it is very distinctive of these engines. The sound on the video is dubbed from recordings of these engines. Dad's got the tape, and I could borrow it and send you a short clip of the sound.The valve gear idea I was wondering about was this. Could the gear be made to look like it was in forward gear, mostly the link block setting, when appropriate, and reverse. Full animation of this movement would be too much, no doubt, but it would be cool for us purists if the two settings showed up.Steve Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
mikkox (166 posts)
Dec-31-01, 08:16 PM (EST) 54. "RE: Sound" >Another thought, Have you by
>chance seen the Pentrex (I
>think) tape, SP 4274, Last
>run of a Cab Forward
>over Donner Pass? One Nope, haven't seen it. > Dad's got the tape,
>and I could borrow it
>and send you a short
>clip of the sound. Yeah, please send it, I'll see if I can use it.>Could the gear be made
>to look like it was
>in forward gear, mostly the
>link block setting, when appropriate,
>and reverse. Full animation
>of this movement would be
>too much, no doubt, but
>it would be cool for
>us purists if the two
>settings showed up. Ok, I see now what you mean. It would be really cool to have a full animation of the valve gear going from forward to reverse. But unfortunately it's impossible with current MSTS version, there's just no way to link animation to the position of the reverser. Maybe if the pantograph button would work with steam locos, it might be possible to build the animation hiearchy so that the link position could be changed.However, I could build two versions, one that has the valve gear animated going forwards, and another one in reverse. But who's gonna run a Cab Forward locomotive in reverse for long times?Unless someone can think of a way to control animations (other than the ones related to the wheel rotation) we just have to be happy with a valve gear animated at a certain cut-off. Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
timken (237 posts)
Jan-01-02, 02:07 PM (EST) 56. "RE: Sound" I did the sound files for the airpumps and the whistle while I was at it. Sent it and got this message, This Message was undeliverable due to the following reason:The user(s) account is temporarily over quota.Guess I'll try again tomorrow (it is 280K zipped).The video is by Video Rails, which Pentrex has, if you are interested.Steve Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
mikkox (166 posts)
Jan-01-02, 05:45 PM (EST) 57. "RE: Sound" >This Message was undeliverable due to
>the following reason:
>
>The user(s) account is temporarily over
>quota. Oh crap, spam has filled my mailbox. I cleared it now, so you can get the file sent.By the way, does the video contain some good clean chuffing too that could be made into a sample? Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
TOPDOG5184 (550 posts)
Dec-31-01, 06:40 PM (EST) 53. "RE: Valve gear and reversing" Hi all. ok recall on my last post. I meant a combined total of 135,000lbs of tractive effort from both sets of articulats. I misprinted that. I put 135,000 for each. sorry bout that. seeing as it was at 3am I believe? I was rather tired and not thinking clearly. sorry bout that. ohh and mikkox if you change the sander sound to be an air horn don't worry the sander will still go on. you just won't here a sound. only problem with that is when you activate the sander you'll here the horn till you shut it off. could get rather anyoing but better than only having the horn or whistle. I tested a theory I had today about the sander still working even if you changed the sound and it does. I changed the sander sound on the ESE to be the GP38 horn. leaving the whistle at the space key and now the horn at the x key I found that the sander goes on and the horn blows. so you won't loose the sander just won't here it. you'll here a horn instead. just a little fyi for ya. Craig Shortino Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
mikkox (166 posts)
Dec-31-01, 08:27 PM (EST) 55. "Water scoop sound... hmmm" >if you change the sander
>sound to be an air
>horn don't worry the sander
>will still go on. you
>just won't here a sound. I know. You must be tired again to think that I wouldn't know. The sander will work, but it really is annoying to hear the horn honking when sanding. So it would be better to fake the sander as "always on" by setting the adheasion value high enough so that no slip would occur. But that's no fun, it's really fun to slip the drivers and hear it.>key I found that the
>sander goes on and the
>horn blows. so you won't
>loose the sander just won't
>here it. you'll here a
>horn instead. just a little
>fyi for ya. Argh. I didn't mean losing the sander, but loosing it, taking it off, you know?I have to look more into this, it might be possible to use the water scoop sound and button, if I can get the scoop to stay intact dragging along dry track... Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
tro1086 (126 posts)
Jan-19-02, 00:02 AM (EST) 63. "RE: This might help a little..." I scaned this pic from a book i have, sorry it looks a little shity but its better then nothin.The caption reads:
"The Southern Pacific, which had mountain tunnels, introduced Mallet locomotives with forward cabs to avoid suffocation of crews by smoke and steam."Trevor
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jschlen (5 posts)
Jan-27-02, 03:37 AM (EST) 65. "RE: SP Cab Forward news... and a gallup." The AC12 looks great. I just got TSM and jumped right in to build one of my two favorite locomotives. I should have checked here first, your Cab Forward is way further along than mine. LOL
A serious question about this bogie business. How exactly did you work around the MSTS limit. You said something about buliding it in units. Could you elaborate? Does it have something to do with the "Object" menu that I have not determined a good use for yet or do you just build the whole thing and than chop it in half and save it as 2 different projects in order to use two hirearchies.
Also thanks for the tip on where to see the cab interior. Not exactly what I imagined.
Thanks for any help you can give me.
Now where is that GS4 drawing I had?
One last thought. Any idea where to find good drawings(for buliding purposes) of the great Daylite passenger cars with the large windows.
PS Further down this thread there is a photo of a cab forward.
That is a "roll-out" photo taken at the Baldwin works in nearby Philadelphia. Note the tender is painted "SP" but the Cab has no number. Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
mikkox (166 posts)
Jan-27-02, 06:24 AM (EST) 66. "RE: SP Cab Forward news... and a gallup." >A serious question about this bogie
>business. How exactly did you
>work around the MSTS limit.
> You said something about
>buliding it in units.
>Could you elaborate? Does it By units, I meant building some parts as separate locomotives, or wagons. Some parts have their own Main objects, so in MSTS they are separate units that can be coupled together to illustrate a whole locomotive. The Cab Forward has five units, the first unit contains the cab, boiler and the first set of drivers, the second unit is an invisible tender (for the first unit to work correctly), the third unit is the second set of drivers along with the monkey deck, the fourth unit is the rear 2-wheel bogie, and the fifth is the tender.The bogie origins on the driver units have been set so that they turn at the same time when on the tracks, so the double smoke effects turn too correctly with the boiler.>you just build the whole
>thing and than chop it
>in half and save it
>as 2 different projects in
>order to use two hirearchies. Yeah, actually just like that, only that there is no chopping done, I have built it as multiple parts from scratch. For example, I have a hiearchy like this: Main-boiler-cab-handrail1... etc. It is possible to name your own parts, only the animation needs correct naming. And it's easy to re-use the parts on a another locomotive. For example, I could do a AC-9 Yellowstone of of the cab forwards just by changing a few parts. Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

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