Message Areas - "Bounding box problem"

Train-Sim.Com Message Areas

"Bounding box problem"

Email this topic to a friend
Printer-friendly version of this topic
Bookmark this topic (Registered users only)
Previous Topic | Next Topic Conferences Microsoft Train Simulator (Protected) Original message
seern (185 posts)
Apr-20-02, 12:00 PM (EST) "Bounding box problem" I d/l'ed recently a CPR caboose for use in an activity that I am designing for the KHP route. It had a major bounding box issue, which I have corrected. How should I go about getting the correct file into the system. It was freeware to start with. Is it ok to u/l the corrected file with the notation about who the original designer was and that this is a corrected file.Sharon Evans Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
Table of Contents

Subject Author Message Date ID RE: Bounding box problem seern Apr-20-02 1 RE: Bounding box problem Richard Apr-20-02 2 RE: Bounding box problem FozzyBear Apr-20-02 3 RE: Bounding box problem seern Apr-20-02 4 RE: Bounding box problem dvdhoven Apr-21-02 5 RE: Bounding box problem seern Apr-21-02 6 RE: Bounding box problem FozzyBear Apr-21-02 7 RE: Bounding box problem jfroth1 Apr-21-02 8 RE: Bounding box problem seern Apr-21-02 9 RE: Bounding box problem jfroth1 Apr-21-02 10 RE: Bounding box problem FozzyBear Apr-21-02 11 RE: Bounding box problem jfroth1 Apr-21-02 12

Lobby | Topics | Previous Topic | Next Topic
Messages in this topic
seern (185 posts)
Apr-20-02, 04:00 PM (EST) 1. "RE: Bounding box problem" Nels, or someone help me out here. Sharon Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
Richard (154 posts)
Apr-20-02, 04:05 PM (EST) 2. "RE: Bounding box problem" Sharon,
That would be my guess to upload the file giving credit to the original creator and noting you have adjusted the bounding box values to correct a problem. Nels would this be correct?thanks,
Rich S. Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
FozzyBear (971 posts)
Apr-20-02, 08:58 PM (EST) 3. "RE: Bounding box problem" >Sharon,
>That would be my guess to
>upload the file giving credit
>to the original creator and
>noting you have adjusted the
>bounding box values to correct
>a problem. Nels would
>this be correct?
No it would not be correct!! You MUST have the permission of the original designer in order to re-distribute ANY modified file.This again stems from the confusion between Public Domain and Freeware. Public Domain = Total freedom to modify and distribute files and use them however you wish to!!Freeware = Free to use and modify ONLY on your own personal computer system. Unless the designer gives you consent to re-distribute his or her work. Copyright on freeware is retained by the original designer.Best Regards,
Julian (Fozzy The Bear) Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
seern (185 posts)
Apr-20-02, 11:47 PM (EST) 4. "RE: Bounding box problem" Julian, understand where you are coming from. After my original post I read the ReadMe more carefully and came across this, "The .S file is the exclusive property of Mark R. Toland WA. The .S file my be redistributed as freeware only, provided that I am given credit and that this read me file be included." Also the reskin that I am concerned with was done by Harold Clithereo, who I have communicated with about this fix. So this seems to cover me for reposting the file with the fix to the .sd file.ThanksSharon
Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
dvdhoven (748 posts)
Apr-21-02, 00:23 AM (EST) 5. "RE: Bounding box problem" Hi,Those were the days!
That caboose was the first model, Mark made. Sad he had leaved the board. I remember that there were problems with this caboose and that Mark has published a fix for it long ago.
I think you're right to publish a fix. This game needs to be playable.
I don't agree with Fozzy. I agree that you must have permission of the creator for doing changes to the original model, but this is not a change, it is only a fix. You correct something that the creator has done wrong. What's wrong what that?Dick van den Hoven
Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
seern (185 posts)
Apr-21-02, 02:24 AM (EST) 6. "RE: Bounding box problem" Dick, thank you for that. Glad to know that someone knows Mark and can understand why I am doing this. Also, I must admit, I need that caboose to work right because it is part of an activity that I am about to post and poeple will need it to run this activity.Sharon Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
FozzyBear (971 posts)
Apr-21-02, 04:44 PM (EST) 7. "RE: Bounding box problem" LAST EDITED ON Apr-21-02 AT 04:46 PM (EST)
>I don't agree with Fozzy. I
>agree that you must have
>permission of the creator for
>doing changes to the original
>model, but this is not
>a change, it is only
>a fix. Sorry Dick! but the fact remains that if you want to re-distribute the work of a designer who releases something as freeware then you must have their permission to do it!! I didn't say that it shouldn't be done!.... I said that you need permission to do it. That remains a fact! What I said, was not a personal opinion.. It was a factual description of what Freeware means!>You correct something
>that the creator has done
>wrong. What's wrong what that? What is wrong with it is that, although you are creating a fix and there is nothing wrong with that in itself, if you do not have permission to distribute a file, you would be in breach of copyright and the legal rights of the original designer.If you don't bother to obtain permission, and the designer then complains to Nels, the file will end up being removed from the file library and that would not be in anyones interest!!Sharon did the right thing and checked the readme file in which the permission to redistribute is given. But in many other cases you would have to contact the designer directly for permission in order to do it.Best Regards,
Julian (Fozzy The Bear) Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
jfroth1 (212 posts)
Apr-21-02, 06:18 PM (EST) 8. "RE: Bounding box problem" Hi Fozzy,I'm confident I know your answer, but I'd like to question your response and suggest the following...Since the Bounding Box parameters are defined in the shape description (.sd) file, and the .sd file is readily modifiable by any/ALL of us with unicode save capability (as opposed to the .s file which I AGREE Is Another Story Altogether), would Sharon really be taking a heinous and libelous liberty to post "just" her modified .sd file for the caboose here, and/or in her activity?First question: Sharon, have you tried to contact the author (MT) to get .sd file modification 'permission'?Otherwise, Sharon: Perhaps you might include your "recommended" Bounding Box parameters for the caboose in your activity readme.txt, with instructions to the user on how to modify them, else the "user beware"?This is just my opinion, but text/unicode editing to enhance 'playability' does not appear to me to be outside the realm of the INTENT of the author's shareware. This is especially true when a KNOWN problem exists on an item which was designed prior to suggested/recommended fixes.We're not talking about the shape file here. This sim has evolved (actually, leapfrogged!) with ingenuity as investigative and cogent corrections heve been posted by so many on this board. I guess the underlying question is this: If the designer cannot be reached and "approval" is not obtainable, can't a corrective action be made if it improves the game's >playability< (note, one that does NOT improves a unit's .s 'prettiness') with a small suggested effort on the part of the user? Can't a salient fix be recommended or included with the download package which Doesn't affect the .s file which is the heart and soul of the designer? I'm agreeing with Dick van den Hoven's response.And I also agree with Dick that it's sad Mark Toland left the board.

Cordially,
John Roth
Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
seern (185 posts)
Apr-21-02, 06:34 PM (EST) 9. "RE: Bounding box problem" Thanks John, but as noted in my post above and Julian's reply. the permission to redistruibute ws already in the original readMe file. So I am on firm groundSharon Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
jfroth1 (212 posts)
Apr-21-02, 06:41 PM (EST) 10. "RE: Bounding box problem" Sharon, that sounds well and right to me.John Roth
Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
FozzyBear (971 posts)
Apr-21-02, 06:47 PM (EST) 11. "RE: Bounding box problem" >Since the Bounding Box parameters are
>defined in the shape description
>(.sd) file, and the .sd
>file is readily modifiable by
>any/ALL of us with unicode
>save capability (as opposed to
>the .s file which I
>AGREE Is Another Story Altogether),
>would Sharon really be taking
>a heinous and libelous liberty
>to post "just" her modified
>.sd file for the caboose
>here, and/or in her activity?
I don't personally see any problem, as the readme file with that particular item grants permision and conditions for re-distribution. So in this case there would be no problem. I guess as it's not a specific design file, and as it's to improve the game functionality that it would be OK to modify the .SD file and upload it, it'd only be like creating a new physics file in .eng format, and uploading that. It's then peoples choice if they use it or not.However sharon originally asked if she could re-upload the entire model including the .s file and new .sd file and new skin or whatever else... The answer here is quite clear. In this case because the readme gives consent, it is OK to do that. However, if the readme file had not had that permission in it she would have had to obtain permission from the designer in order to upload the entire model.Distribution of copyright material without the consent of the copyright holder, is illegal, simple as that. If the designer can't at present be contacted it does not make it any less illegal or permissable to do it.Best Regards,
Julian (Fozy The Bear)
Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
jfroth1 (212 posts)
Apr-21-02, 07:19 PM (EST) 12. "RE: Bounding box problem" Fozzy,
The purpose in my response/post here was to question whether a shape description (.sd) file (or .eng file, etc.), which is readily modifiable by ANY user via the text/unicode program which is included in ALL MS Windows OS's, IS considered the property of the freeware/shareware designer.
I trust that you believe this IS the case.
Note that I am NOT disagreeing with you.
Just curious as to the legal ramifications.
Cordially,
John Roth
Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Lock | Archive | Remove

Lobby | Topics | Previous Topic | Next Topic