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Teisco (24 posts)
Mar-04-02, 09:47 AM (EST) "Running several engines, only first one works?" I tried running four steamers on a long train and noticed when going uphill only the first one used sand and the other three spun their wheels. Also the smoke was black from the first one and the other three had grey smoke. So, does this work or am I doing something wrong?Thanks, Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
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Subject Author Message Date ID RE: Running several engines, only f... Teisco Mar-04-02 1 RE: Running several engines, only f... Gandalf Mar-04-02 2 RE: Running several engines, only f... chuckzeiler Mar-04-02 3 RE: Running several engines, only f... Lance Mar-05-02 4 RE: Running several engines, only f... Teisco Mar-05-02 5 RE: Running several engines, only f... chuckzeiler Mar-05-02 8 RE: Running several engines, only f... plainsman Mar-05-02 7 RE: Running several engines, only f... troub Mar-05-02 6 RE: Running several engines, only f... Hentis Mar-05-02 9

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Teisco (24 posts)
Mar-04-02, 07:06 PM (EST) 1. "RE: Running several engines, only first one works?" Is this a hard question? Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
Gandalf (177 posts)
Mar-04-02, 07:15 PM (EST) 2. "RE: Running several engines, only first one works?" No, you're not doing anything wrong. You will also notice that your smoke plume is always white or light gray on the extra engines. The extra engines ARE contributing to your puling power...try it with fewer locos as a test. It's just one of those little details that got overlooked by Kuju to meet the release deadline they and Microsoft set. Don't let it spoil your enjoyment of the sim, though. There's nothin like sticking your head oiut the cab window, looking back and seeing those iron monsters straining up the grade!Enjoy
Gandalf Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
chuckzeiler (179 posts)
Mar-04-02, 08:09 PM (EST) 3. "RE: Running several engines, only first one works?" LAST EDITED ON Mar-04-02 AT 08:24 PM (EST)I've been struggling with double headed steam locos too. Diesels are no problem, but my experience has been that the second steam loco not only doesn't add any tractive effort (horsepower), but actually adds friction. In my case, I've backed down the hill, cut off the second steam loco, coupled back up to the train and made it up the hill, no problem. Not using a long train, about a dozen cars, but a single steam loco can make it up the hill where two steam locos cannot. Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
Lance (39 posts)
Mar-05-02, 08:03 AM (EST) 4. "RE: Running several engines, only first one works?" chuckzeilerVery interesting. I never realized that using only one steam loco (on MSTS) instead of multi units can perform better than two, under certain circumstances. I have learned something new today and will keep that in mind when developing future consists. BTW, I don't recognize the route where your nice screen shot was taken. Would you please clarify, thanks.Lance
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Teisco (24 posts)
Mar-05-02, 09:59 AM (EST) 5. "RE: Running several engines, only first one works?" LAST EDITED ON Mar-05-02 AT 10:00 AM (EST)I first noticed it when I linked four steamers and a long train to pull up the grades at Seaview. On the first grade I went to outside view and saw the first loco chuggin black smoke and wheels being sanded as I directed. I then saw that the other three locos were spinning their wheels and grey smoke was coming out of the stacks. I realized then that the extra locos were not really following the orders issued to the first loco (no sand and grey smoke indicating a different power command). So, what can be done? Is this the way it is with MSTS and why has no one mentioned this before? How can we use double power units if the extras do not follow the commands you give the main? I have not yet tried this with anything but steam as it is the easiest to detect. Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
chuckzeiler (179 posts)
Mar-05-02, 06:00 PM (EST) 8. "RE: Running several engines, only first one works?" Lance, that's Sunken Island on Sea View route. Here's another shot. Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
plainsman (681 posts)
Mar-05-02, 01:35 PM (EST) 7. "RE: Running several engines, only first one works?" I am not really trying to add to the discussion as started here, but I did want to correct one issue.
Tractive effort is not horsepower. Tractive effort is a force or pull. Power is a measure of force applied over time. An analogy might make it easier to understand as this is not intuitive.
Take a 40 hp John Deere G tractor from the early 1950s. It weighs about 6000 pounds. Now hook this up to a 800 HP open wheel modern racing car that weighs about 1000 pounds. The tractor will easily pull the car down the street, the car's tires spinning, its engine screaming. The 6000 pound tractor can pull more than the 1000 pound car. The weight gives it a much better grip on the road, and the speed at which it works is much slower. The tractor has a maximum speed of about 11-12 mph but typically works at 1-3 mph at full throttle (it is geared with very low gears). The car works at 170 mph at full throttle. The slower gearing means it will pull harder, but slower, the trade off.
The same with locomotives. A 370,000 pound SD7 will easily outpull a 250,000 pound GP35. The CTE of the SD7 is 60,000 pounds and the MTE is about 85,000 pounds. The GP35 will pull less than 51,500 pounds continuously and will only get about 63,000 pounds of MTE. The GP35 has 2500 HP, the SD7 has 1500 HP. Now with the same trailing tons, the GP35 will operate at much higher track speed than the SD7.
Horsepower is related more to speed ability and tractive effort is pull ability.
Bob Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
troub (289 posts)
Mar-05-02, 10:04 AM (EST) 6. "RE: Running several engines, only first one works?" LAST EDITED ON Mar-05-02 AT 10:06 AM (EST)There has been some discussion, I think in the sound forum, about how secondary (non-leading) locos don't sound right, and it appears that a possible solution is to make AI equivalents for the "drivable" locomotives that you want trailing in your consist. This seems to fix the problem of the engines always sounding like they're idling.Just speculation, but maybe this would fix some problems with the steam locomotives, too?troub
MSTS: Illinois CentralEDIT: I found the thread here:
http://www.train-sim.com/dcforum/DCForumID11/44.html Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
Hentis (294 posts)
Mar-05-02, 06:10 PM (EST) 9. "RE: Running several engines, only first one works?"
I have to agree with Troub that its disapointing that there are no other sounds in extra added locos..... example I saw a triple headed 37 at Eastleigh (UK)last friday and all 3 were running and boy the noise was great...but trying to do that in MTS it is a shame that its not included. Although the other sim does it to a tee. :pHentisTHE FUTURES BRIGHT, THE FUTURES TRAINZ -
www.virtualtrainz.com - Official Beta Tester For TrainzFILE DELETION IS MURDER, HARD DISK FORMATTING IS GENOCIDE PC 1 Specs AMD Athlon 1.2ghz, 327MB Gigabyte 7ZXR M/board, GeForce3 64mb ddr Creative, Linksys Networking HUB and cards. SB Live 1024 DVD Rom, CD RWPC2 Specs Cant be arsed.... Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

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