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ccyko (404 posts)
Feb-10-02, 11:04 AM (EST) "Up Close and personal with third rail...." -Chris
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Subject Author Message Date ID RE: Up Close and personal with thir... fredp Feb-11-02 1 RE: Up Close and personal with thir... TrirailF40PHL Feb-11-02 2 RE: Up Close and personal with thir... Alex Feb-11-02 3 RE: Up Close and personal with thir... Alex Feb-11-02 5 RE: Up Close and personal with thir... Alex Feb-11-02 6 RE: Up Close and personal with thir... Thirdrail70 Feb-11-02 4 RE: Up Close and personal with thir... Hobart Feb-11-02 7 RE: Up Close and personal with thir... dchagar Feb-11-02 8 RE: Up Close and personal with thir... cjmaclean Feb-12-02 9 RE: Up Close and personal with thir... Matt Vince Feb-12-02 10 RE: Up Close and personal with thir... chucksc Feb-12-02 11 RE: Up Close and personal with thir... miketrak Feb-12-02 12 RE: Up Close and personal with thir... chucksc Feb-12-02 15 RE: Up Close and personal with thir... Thirdrail70 Feb-12-02 18 RE: Up Close and personal with thir... Thirdrail70 Feb-12-02 17 RE: Up Close and personal with thir... fredp Feb-12-02 13 RE: Up Close and personal with thir... Thirdrail70 Feb-12-02 14 RE: Up Close and personal with thir... chucksc Feb-12-02 16 RE: Up Close and personal with thir... Thirdrail70 Feb-12-02 19

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fredp (12 posts)
Feb-11-02, 07:49 PM (EST) 1. "RE: Up Close and personal with third rail...." Here's a link to something that uses a 3rd rail, and sure would be nice if modeled by some artistic soul. Ran between NYC's GrandCentral terminal and Harmon NY.
_Fred Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
TrirailF40PHL (384 posts)
Feb-11-02, 07:59 PM (EST) 2. "RE: Up Close and personal with third rail...." Looks like someone made a mess of a GG1....Kurt Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
Alex (361 posts)
Feb-11-02, 08:56 PM (EST) 3. "RE: Up Close and personal with third rail...." man watch it! this thing scared five hells outta me!! Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
Alex (361 posts)
Feb-11-02, 08:58 PM (EST) 5. "RE: Up Close and personal with third rail...." just kiddin', man I wonder why people who rode it weren't affraid of it Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
Alex (361 posts)
Feb-11-02, 09:05 PM (EST) 6. "RE: Up Close and personal with third rail...." no actually it's ok, it was a spontaneous reaction to what I saw, first I write and then I think, so take it easy guys, not to hurt anyone's feelings there. Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
Thirdrail70 (48 posts)
Feb-11-02, 08:58 PM (EST) 4. "RE: Up Close and personal with third rail...." Yes,yes,yes. The NYC P2 boxcab electric. I was fortunate enough to be invited aboard one of these fine locomotives as a child with my father included. The engineer gave us a thrilling (at least for me) ride through the Park Avenue tunnel approach to Grand Central Terminal. The locomotive in two tone grey had the appearance of a naval battleship with decks on both ends. If some capable 3D artist could make this baby for use with MSTS, I'd be just as thrilled. How about it all you talented Santa Clauses out there... and by the way, a big thank you to all the 3D artists who have given us all the fine digital railway equipment so far. You all deserve more thanks than we could possibly express here. Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
Hobart (191 posts)
Feb-11-02, 09:56 PM (EST) 7. "RE: Up Close and personal with third rail...." The Elephant Loco Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
dchagar (25 posts)
Feb-11-02, 10:44 PM (EST) 8. "RE: Up Close and personal with third rail...." Yeah, but this baby uses UNDER-RUNNING third and Chris has done OVER-RUNNING (Chicago-style, no protections.) Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
cjmaclean (836 posts)
Feb-12-02, 03:56 AM (EST) 9. "RE: Up Close and personal with third rail...." Forgive me if it's a dumb question, but is that tiny thing on the roof (right about where the number "239" is located toward the left end) a pantograph?D.M."Inter Arma Enim Silent Leges" Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
Matt Vince (97 posts)
Feb-12-02, 06:38 AM (EST) 10. "RE: Up Close and personal with third rail...." LAST EDITED ON Feb-12-02 AT 06:41 AM (EST)CJMaclean: I don't think thats a panto, since it looks too small to be of any use (compare with a GG1s) and the 'System' only used under-contact third rail. In order for the New Haven to get into Grand Central (which they shared with the NYC) their locos (like the EP5) and MUs had to be fitted with third rail contact shoes, and they would change over outside NY from overhead to third rail. Interestingly, New Haven's EMD FL-9s were not pure diesels (being of the F-unit line) and had contact shoes to enable them to run into Grand Central. This tradition is continued with Metro-North's P32 units (a sort of baby Genesis) which has shoes, and indeed Amtrak's Rohr Turboliner (RTL), used on the Albany route, which because it's a gas turbine is required by law (in NY city) to have third rail power capability. The PRR and Amtrak's NEC operations get round the third rail problem by concentrating on Penn Station, which since it is Pennsy (grr! ) uses overhead line throughout, and links with the old NH via the Hell Gate Bridge (gotta love that name!! ). Grand Central is, I believe, no longer used by Amtrak long distance trains (Lake Shore Limited is scheduled to go into Peon Station - oops typo! ) - Ive just checked, all trains run into Peon Station.Chris - That 3rd rail is great, now all we need is to have one surface mountable and us 3rd rail fans will be in business!Matt Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
chucksc (969 posts)
Feb-12-02, 10:53 AM (EST) 11. "RE: Up Close and personal with third rail...." That is a "mini-pantograph" for use on DC 3rd rail systems... At GCT there are many places that due to the complexity of the track work there is no place to put the 3rd rail except hang it from the over head... These places are usually double slip switches and complex cross overs.... The Mini allows the loco to maintain contact and power through these spots... Other wise at slow speeds it is possible to "stall out" in these spots. The original FL9s (1st deliveries) had them too but got around the problem of the occasional stall outs by powering up the diesel and chugging off! The EP5 had them also....------Chuck Schneider---------

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miketrak (18 posts)
Feb-12-02, 01:03 PM (EST) 12. "RE: Up Close and personal with third rail...." Looks similar to the older Japanese EF58 series locos. Same wheel arrangement, and platforms at the front/back, but the platforms are smaller than that NYC job!
What were the platforms used for? and why are they that size!?Looks a rather nice loco though.
Mike.
South wales,
UK. Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
chucksc (969 posts)
Feb-12-02, 06:18 PM (EST) 15. "RE: Up Close and personal with third rail...." The platforms????
OK that's easy. This is a DC powered motor(From DC third rail) and so does not need the Transformers/Rectifiers etc. that an AC (overhead wire) powered "motor" would.... So the internal equipment requirements are much lower.... So take a GG1 or EP3/4 or EF3 and throw away all the AC to DC conversion stuff (remember all these had DC motors on the axles) and this is what you get.... Lots of Motors and Trucks and not much needed to drive them.... So rather than have a large EMPTY carbody the NYC did what you see.... The platforms are just covers over the lead trucks.....------Chuck Schneider---------

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Thirdrail70 (48 posts)
Feb-12-02, 06:42 PM (EST) 18. "RE: Up Close and personal with third rail...." Thanks Chuck. I didn't know that either. Now if we can only get a talented 3D artist to make one of the P2's in both the Cleveland Union Terminal and Grand Central versions. By the way, MTH (Mike's Train House) made a very fine die-cast O Gauge Lionel format but otherwise scale model of the P2 about 2 years ago. Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
Thirdrail70 (48 posts)
Feb-12-02, 06:37 PM (EST) 17. "RE: Up Close and personal with third rail...." The extended platforms on the P2 boxcab electric were actually extensions of the "C" trucks. On the platform deck were several boxes, a brake wheel on a post and a wealth of railings since the driver boarded and entered the cab from there. Under the huge carriage (on either end) casting was a two-axle carriage which carried the shoes for obtaining power from the third rail. These locomotives originally carried traditional large pantographs on their roofs as they were built for use on the tracks of the Cleveland Union Terminal. When the terminal closed, the locos were rebuilt for use in the New York area's third rail territory. Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
fredp (12 posts)
Feb-12-02, 06:09 PM (EST) 13. "RE: Up Close and personal with third rail...." http://www.dnaco.net/~gelwood/other/nyc.html This link has some incredible historic photo's of NYC's roster of great locomotive's. If you took the 4:40 out of GrandCentral back in the 60's as I did as a college student, you would see old electric's like below still in use even though dating back to the early 1900's ...And yes there is that 3rd rail... Hmm... sparks... brings back memories
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Thirdrail70 (48 posts)
Feb-12-02, 06:18 PM (EST) 14. "RE: Up Close and personal with third rail...." Your question about the small pantograph certainly is not a dumb question, but a good one. The miniature pantograph which is found on most New York Central and New Haven electrics (of a certain period), including the popular NYNH&H EP-5, was necessary to bridge the electrical gap between third rail power in the Park Avenue Tunnel when the locomotives were rolling over double-slip switches on their way to Grand Central Terminal's passenger platforms. Lionel's early models of NYC electrics featured the small pantographs which many incorrectly thought were the wrong size. Thanks for asking. Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
chucksc (969 posts)
Feb-12-02, 06:27 PM (EST) 16. "RE: Up Close and personal with third rail...." Not bad 3rd rail! you gave him the same answer I did only 8 hours later! LOL!
I think they made a TV commercial 'bout that! ( you know where the guy says I just said the same thing and they other guy says I made a hand motion while doing it so its not the same )
ROFLMAO
Just picking on you! I like your wording better than many anyway!------Chuck Schneider---------

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Thirdrail70 (48 posts)
Feb-12-02, 06:53 PM (EST) 19. "RE: Up Close and personal with third rail...." Thanks Chuck, still there are probably a lot of facts that you know about that would still be news to me since I don't claim to know everything. But the younger guys didn't see the things we did nor live through that period that we find so interesting and if we can tell them about it it's our pleasure. If I'm incorrect about some facts, I will not be offended if you inform me differently. It's been a pleasure to read your comments.
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